Su-30MKI & JF-17 Air Fight

[deckingraj]

I think u all guys have messed it up alltogather

Its awful thng that u are comparing fighters of two completely different leagues,its better to compare jf-17 with f-16 ,gripen and su-30mki with f-15 eagle and f-18

But because of the old rivlary u guys here are again comparing odd stuff

Su-30mki and jf-17 both have different roles to play so they both have different characteristics jf-17 is a light weight multi role fighter intended for low cost solution for PAF ,to attain much higher sorties at low cost and to induct them in numbers to manage both cost and numbers and its a new platform still to be matured

Where as

Su-30 mki is some extent an air superiority heavy weight fighter intended to carry much higher payloads at far distances mainly intended for China , much costly too maintain and fits the IAF needs as China is much bigger as compared to Pakistan and India ,plus su-30 is a matured platform with inputs from various countries having much mature technology

Su-30 MKI and JF-17 are built for two difference purposes. Technology wise they are different. One is heavily armed long range air dominance fighter while another is light weight multi-purpose fighter.

I am sorry but have a different view on this..speaking from my limted knowledge here is my POV...

As far as i know most of out MKI's are stationed near PAK border...So saying that MKI are only for China is not correct...Secondly in case of a war scenario IAF is going to use its best fighter so MKI will defnitely be in picture...Now if we have a consensus on this then lets move to next one...

What role does JF17 going to play in PAF??? I believe its role would be of interceptor(though it can perform other roles but best suited as interceptor)...As far as i know MKI role is to attack and achieve Air Superiority...so can you guys please enlighten me why you think MKI and JF17 comparison is not worth...Both fighters are going to have a go at each other in war scenario....

I agree if i am looking out to buy a long range heavy air dominance aircraft it would be foolish of me to compare MKI's with JF17 as both are for different purpose however when it comes to war i believe right comparison would be b/w the Air Dominance Fighter vs Interceptor....In that sense this comparison makes perfect sense....What you guys think??

 

[flaming arrow]

Su-30 MKI and JF-17 are built for two difference purposes. Technology wise they are different. One is heavily armed long range air dominance fighter while another is light weight multi-purpose fighter.

Both the jets are of different category but the truth is that both will be facing each other in a possible future air battle...Thats beyond doubt..
It wil be interesting to see how PAF,optimises jf-17 to the best of its use..PAF is a very proffessional force(in my personal view best compared to the other arms).......it did plan to give thunder the killer punch with the help of french avionics..but that is history now,now it depends on how the pakistani government plays so that it can provide its force with something better then the chinese tech..french deal clears us that PAF had planed(plan is still on cards) to use the thunder platform to custom make a jet which meets the need..something like sukhoi 30mki for us...
many fanboys are saying we will g for j-11,thats a possibility can become true but not in near future,it will be interesting to see how many j-10 they induct....

 

[SekrutYakhni]

lats say if we have this in Suzuki Mehran
turbocharger
intercooler
nitrus
direct port nitrus
ecu(electrinic control unit) for timed fule injuction & ignition

think than

Well you know the structure of the plane tells its capacity. SU 30 is twin engined jet and has a bigger structure. No matter what you do with JF 17, you can't compete SU 30 in terms of speed etc

I am not a military expert.

 

[Avatar]

dont worry future variants of jf 17 thunder would be BMW now u think again

Future variants of MKI would be James Bonds Aston Martin

 

[thunder rules]

Future variants of MKI would be James Bonds Aston Martin

yeah just like fictional james bond series.. mki wont be any thing else then a fiction in near future

 

[Jigs]

I don't see why this is still being discussed. Go research both aircraft and you will see there is zero point in discussing or comparing the two.

 

[holysaturn]

i dont know guys i dont how people compare the mki with a fighter whose radar choice is yet to be defined.......has it cleared IOC, FOC ,has it fired bvr missiles(as it has a poor radar),has it fired pgm's,or even dropped bumb bombs(like lca)..........there are no reports,so it is a crazy thing to compare a fighter with theoritical(or i shud say speculative) future capabilities with a fully operational aircraft whose base aircraft(su-30) capabilities are widely known and proved in lot of international ex.

 

[TaimiKhan]

i dont know guys i dont how people compare the mki with a fighter whose radar choice is yet to be defined.......has it cleared IOC, FOC ,has it fired bvr missiles(as it has a poor radar),has it fired pgm's,or even dropped bumb bombs(like lca)..........there are no reports,so it is a crazy thing to compare a fighter with theoritical(or i shud say speculative) future capabilities with a fully operational aircraft whose base aircraft(su-30) capabilities are widely known and proved in lot of international ex.

Before coming up with such , it would be better if you read the JF-17 thread and see what it has done so far.

Moun miyaan mithoo naa bana karoo tu behter hooo gaaa.

 

[holysaturn]

Before coming up with such , it would be better if you read the JF-17 thread and see what it has done so far.

Moun miyaan mithoo naa bana karoo tu behter hooo gaaa.

sorry i don understand hindi.....and i dint find any bvr tests or pgm tests may be if u post i wud be happy to view them...by the way the italian radar is not as capable as the bars..........engine not even close(while su's get uprated ones in future)...........EW warfare,with the new mayavi the su's will be more capable...........in the future along with operational datalink and brahmos,crystal maze,sudharshan,delilah,astra,fixed wing tactical nag,aesa upg and other pak-fa packages the su can comfortably handle future threats.

for the jf-17 it has to bring a m-88 or m-53 or any higher thrust chinese alternative,work with the chinese or italians on an advanced aesa radar(may be an islamic aesa scalable radar like the islamic bomb can do) and upgrade packages,integrate raad,h-2,h-4 or whatever advanced missiles u could procure...in that case it can stand a good fight.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Okay so the party is going on. I just used Mehran as an example but the next page was full of James bond, Mercedes etc

Coming back to the point now!

You cannot compare future versions of JF 17 Thunder with current SU 30. Who knows the future SU 30 (if any)...

 

[TaimiKhan]

sorry i don understand hindi.....and i dint find any bvr tests or pgm tests may be if u post i wud be happy to view them...by the way the italian radar is not as capable as the bars..........engine not even close(while su's get uprated ones in future)...........EW warfare,with the new mayavi the su's will be more capable...........in the future along with operational datalink and brahmos,crystal maze,sudharshan,delilah,astra,fixed wing tactical nag,aesa upg and other pak-fa packages the su can comfortably handle future threats.

for the jf-17 it has to bring a m-88 or m-53 or any higher thrust chinese alternative,work with the chinese or italians on an advanced aesa radar(may be an islamic aesa scalable radar like the islamic bomb can do) and upgrade packages,integrate raad,h-2,h-4 or whatever advanced missiles u could procure...in that case it can stand a good fight.

I did not said, Su-30 is comparable to JF-17, as it is not. Any sane person and mind can see that both are different aircraft, with different roles. Su-30 is much superior to JF-17, so even discussing such thing is of no use.

JF-17 has become operational, first Sqd has already been raised and by next year end, around 50 of them would be operational.

All the weapon tests have taken place, it has fired PGMs & BVR missiles, otherwise it would not have been inducted and given a go ahead for production.

Pakistan as per past practice, doesn't tells each and every little or big information about its weapon systems.

And your this Islamic thingy, well i can guess what you are upto and what is your intention, so be careful.

Ra'ad, H2 or H4 are all Pakistan based weapon systems, so they can easily be integrated with JF. Do remember JF-17 has western standard MIL-STD-1760 data-bus architecture with the Stores Management System, thus western weapons can be integrated with it, provided source codes are there.

JF-17 is for now a very good and capable fighter, but not by comparing it to Su-30.

And that was not hindi, it was Urdu.

 

[Jigs]

Okay so the party is going on. I just used Mehran as an example but the next page was full of James bond, Mercedes etc

Coming back to the point now!

You cannot compare future versions of JF 17 Thunder with current SU 30. Who knows the future SU 30s (if any)...

This will all depend on what exactly goes into the JF-17. Trust to weight ratio must be improved along with avionics and engines. Currently the SU-30MKI is ahead by a good margin in all areas. The future upgrades may still have it lacking in certain areas but the JF-17 could be made into a 4.5 gen aircraft with the right stuff.

 

[Jigs]

I did not said, Su-30 is comparable to JF-17, as it is not. Any sane person and mind can see that both are different aircraft, with different roles. Su-30 is much superior to JF-17, so even discussing such thing is of no use.

JF-17 has become operational, first Sqd has already been raised and by next year end, around 50 of them would be operational.

All the weapon tests have taken place, it has fired PGMs & BVR missiles, otherwise it would not have been inducted and given a go ahead for production.

Pakistan as per past practice, doesn't tells each and every little or big information about its weapon systems.

And your this Islamic thingy, well i can guess what you are upto and what is your intention, so be careful.

Ra'ad, H2 or H4 are all Pakistan based weapon systems, so they can easily be integrated with JF. Do remember JF-17 has western standard MIL-STD-1760 data-bus architecture with the Stores Management System, thus western weapons can be integrated with it, provided source codes are there.

JF-17 is for now a very good and capable fighter, but not by comparing it to Su-30.

And that was not hindi, it was Urdu.

Exactly the JF-17 is a very effective fighter for PAF and the right choice and with select upgrades will be even better but currently it is apples and oranges when comparing it to the MKI. I hope Pakistan doesn't take too long with selecting what it needs to upgrade the platform as we are getting closer to the fifth generation of aircraft that will be coming into many air forces.

 

[blueoval79]

Unnecessarily comparing two fighter jets of Different Class......Su 30 MKI has been in service for over a Decade now..and JF 17 has not even started its journey.....Even PAF would be working double time to understand what the aircraft can do and its strategic fit in overall frame work.... and people here are comparing it to a Fighter jet that has been tightly integrated into the war doctrine with its capabilities fully understood and role clearly defined.....

 

[holysaturn]

I did not said, Su-30 is comparable to JF-17, as it is not. Any sane person and mind can see that both are different aircraft, with different roles. Su-30 is much superior to JF-17, so even discussing such thing is of no use.

JF-17 has become operational, first Sqd has already been raised and by next year end, around 50 of them would be operational.

All the weapon tests have taken place, it has fired PGMs & BVR missiles, otherwise it would not have been inducted and given a go ahead for production.

Pakistan as per past practice, doesn't tells each and every little or big information about its weapon systems.

And your this Islamic thingy, well i can guess what you are upto and what is your intention, so be careful.

Ra'ad, H2 or H4 are all Pakistan based weapon systems, so they can easily be integrated with JF. Do remember JF-17 has western standard MIL-STD-1760 data-bus architecture with the Stores Management System, thus western weapons can be integrated with it, provided source codes are there.

JF-17 is for now a very good and capable fighter, but not by comparing it to Su-30.

And that was not hindi, it was Urdu.

sorry for the urdu mistake mate(they seemed very similar).........don be serious with the islamic bomb mate,i was mentioning ur jointness(if u could join to make bomb then y not an aesa and install it on all fighters,ships with the islamic countries,i mean the chances for getting suvh tech from the vest or china is difficult)...........and for the operational thing u see the ef-2000,rafale were produced initially without firing pgm's,bvr and then integrated or for example even iaf placed an order for 40 lca's without these tests(without even the radar installation) and they would be added later.....but the su has undergone all these tests and thus is called fully operational.........the f-111 was produced in small numbers but was not declared fully operational by the us navy and it later went for the f-14....
and an important thing is that jf does not use MIL-STD 1760 but the MIL-STD-1553B databus architecture(even the mig-35 uses 1553).....1773 optical fibre ones(which is the latest) is currently only used for advanced western aircraft like the f-16e/f,ef-2000,f-15se,f-18e/f.........this is one requirement the iaf is looking for in mmrca.

The IAF also feels the MIL-STD-1773 data bus on the fighter will be an enormous and valuable legacy leap, and this has been a point of some discussion during internal presentations made on the MMRCA contenders.
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