Stealth frigate INS Sahyadri enters Da Nang port in Vietnam

[Penguin]

@Penguin

it is possible that It lacks Dedicated Torpedo Launcher.But Every site except BR reported 2 × 2 DTA-53-956 torpedo launchers.

But what BR suggested is that Shivalik Class possibly going to use Klub N- 91RTE2 which is an Anti Submarine Surface Ship Launched Missile.But I doubt Shivalik lacks Torpedo Launchers,as every single link is suggesting otherwise.

anyway,I've found another one...

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=64&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CC4QFjADODxqFQoTCITwl9nvqsgCFYNRjgod3zsKXg&url=http://www.sipri.org/yearbook/2005/files/SIPRIYB0510B.pdf&usg=AFQjCNG1_a8kzRdSKc0V8k_kHJQhicn6Ow&bvm=bv.104317490,d.c2E

this source is from SIPRI..

it shows A244/S NST58 torpedo was purchased for Shivalik Class Frigate.

A244-S - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This Lightweight torpedo can be launched either from Ship or Aircraft.but no mention of Klub Anti Sub Missile.

Regards the 91RTE2 member of the Club family of missiles that Shivalik class can in principal launch, keep in mind:
1) There are only 8 cells in that VLU. Any 91RTE2 in there takes away a space for an antiship weapon. If the ASW missile is used because the ship lacks torpedoes, then heavyweight torpedoes also can't be used in an antishipping role, leaving the ship with little to no antiship capability. (it would be different if there were 2-3 of these 8-cell VLUs.)
2) The gap in range between RBU-6000 (5230m) and 91RTE2 (37km for the missile, plus the range of the homing torpedo carried i.e. 8km) is verly large. Russian ligth torpedoes (350 to 450mm) are used exclusive by air units (aircraft, heli's, missiles) and their range does not exceed 8km. Russian dual use heavy's have a range of 20-25km, making it a much more likely complement to RBU-6000. Western light ASW torp would have typically a range of approx 11km (UK: Stingray) or 12km (US Mark 46) to 15km (US Mark 50), some even 23km (German MU-90) at slower speed setting.
3) Are there reports/records (e.g. Sipri, Janes etc) of this particular missile having been sold to India, or RPK-2 or RPK-6? I don't think there are.
4) If the ship has 533mm torpedo tubes and - as some claim - uses 35–45 km RPK-2 and/or 35–45 km RPK-6 ASW missiles, why also use 40-50km 91RTE2? Why use 2 different missiles, both of which deliver a 400mm lightweight accoustic homing ASW torpedo to approx. the same range? Just because there is a VLS and torpedo tubes? I would expect either/or'', if any such missiles were to be expected at all.
Russia / USSR Post-World War II Torpedoes

Cold War Submarines: The Design and Construction of U.S. and Soviet Submarines - Google Boeken


The Whithead A244S is a lightweight (324mm) , fire-and-forget ASW torpedo also provided by Italy to many navies, including e.g. China. The A244/s are developed and manufactured by the Italian WASS (Whitehead Alenia Sistemi Subacquei) firm. It is used in IN by P16 (Godavari class) and P16A (Brahmaputra class) ships, combined with 2 × triple ILAS 3 324 mm torpedo tubes. In the case of P17 (Shivalik class), this torpedo could be used by the ships helicopters. However, for on board use, the question remains: where are the launch tubes?

It is quite possible that in fact only BR is correct: folks may simply have assumed a weapons fit similar to 1135.6 (Talwar). Because it seems unthinkable that it hasn't got tube launchers for torpedoes and because not everyone reporting is equally knowledgeable, this may then have gone on and started leading its own life.

Again: where are the tubes located? I don't see any tubes or possible firing port covers above water. I can't rule out underwater tubes, but that would be rather unique among navies (and there is no information / evidence to support this conclusion)

do we have similar system??

FREMM uses 2 x double WASS B-515 launcher with Mu-90

A244 would be more consistent with this kind of built in fixed launcher.

A small aperture may be hard to spot (but not impossible)

 

[Stag112]

@Penguin I asked someone and I confirm there are no torpedo launch tubes on Shivalik class.

I also agree with @Providence , it is a bit underpowered for the size. Not sure what is the thinking behind it. Maybe control costs now and spend on MLU that much more to keep the ship cutting edge? We have also been building really large OPVs with very little armament. I am fervently hoping there is some thinking behind this.

 

[Penguin]

@Penguin I asked someone and I confirm there are no torpedo launch tubes on Shivalik class.

I also agree with @Providence , it is a bit underpowered for the size. Not sure what is the thinking behind it. Maybe control costs now and spend on MLU that much more to keep the ship cutting edge? We have also been building really large OPVs with very little armament. I am fervently hoping there is some thinking behind this.

Its built for endurance, its not supposed to be a floating warehouse of ordnance like the RoKN Sejong the Great-class . The overal package is quite capable (but you have to have realistic expectations).

Space and weight reserved is not a bad option in the long run.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Penguin I asked someone and I confirm there are no torpedo launch tubes on Shivalik class.

Its built for endurance, its not supposed to be a floating warehouse of ordnance like the RoKN Sejong the Great-class . The overal package is quite capable (but you have to have realistic expectations).

Space and weight reserved is not a bad option in the long run.

Every source available on the Shivlaiks quote them as having DTA-53-956 torpedo launchers

 

[Stag112]

Every source available on the Shivlaiks quote them as having DTA-53-956 torpedo launchers

Can you post an official source or a picture pls?

 

[Penguin]

Every source available on the Shivlaiks quote them as having DTA-53-956 torpedo launchers

I know (except BR). But - I - can't - find - them! Can you?

 

[Penguin]

Torpedo’s bore, 533mm
Overall dimensions, mm:
Length 8,440
Width 1,550
Height 1,580
Weight, kg
- With heating torpedoes’ system: 2,700
- Without heating torpedoes’ system: 2,500

http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/558/561/

p17
Beam: 16.9 m (55 ft)

 

[Penguin]

Compare Dutch LCF Zeven Provincien

Spanish F-100

Both have 2x2 fixed light weightweight ASW tubes (324mm) in the forward portion of the hangar area of the superstructure (i.e. there is a common magazin for those tubes and the ASW heli)

 

[Penguin]

 

[desimorty]

Whats behind that garage door on the side of Shivilak? could this not house the torpeadeos in question since the Talwar were the base concept of this design? Notice the Talwar have torpeadeos close to its boat docking area?

 

[Penguin]

Whats behind that garage door on the side of Shivilak? could this not house the torpeadeos in question since the Talwar were the base concept of this design? Notice the Talwar have torpeadeos close to its boat docking area?

Apparently, and contrary to sources claiming either 2x3 tubes for 324 mm ILAS 3 torpedoes or 2 × 2 DTA-53-956 torpedo launchers, project 17 is not equipped with torpedo launchers (i.e. it relies on RBU-6000 for close in protection against torpedoes and submarines, and uses its two helicopters as main ASW assets)

The thingy near the F in the pic below is - most likely - a folding gangway a.k.a boarding ladder, which can service the boats.

Compare to Russian 1135.6M Admiral Grigorovich (check the shape of the opening near the stern)

There are no other hull openings or covers that can be associated with torpedo launchers

Compare

FREMM Successfully Fires First Torpedo | Ares

 

[Penguin]

INS Teg. Note the foldable gangway below the helicopter deck. Torpedo tubes are at the hull opening below the main radar mast. This is what you have onboard: a trainable twin tube installation on each flank.

See Stealth frigate INS Sahyadri enters Da Nang port in Vietnam | Page 10

 

[Penguin]

These you find on the Godavari (P16) and Brahmaputra (P16A) classes, for 324mm lightweight ASW torpedoes.
The FREMM (see earlier post) has similar tubes mounted fixed transverse in the hull.

Rajput, P15, P15A, Talwar and P28 all have 533mm tubes. Those on Talwar and Kamorta classes are 2 trainable pairs. Those on Rajpu and P15 are a single trainable quintuple set. On the Kolkata class you have 2x2 tubes fixed transversely (a pair to each side)

Rajput class

Delhi class

Kolkata class (fixed twin launchers amidship)

Trainable twin launcher as found on Talwar and Kamorta

 

[Shankranthi]

The Torpedoes are behind that door.

Similar arrangement to 1135.6M and also in Komarta.

 

[Penguin]

The Torpedoes are behind that door.

Similar arrangement to 1135.6M and also in Komarta.

So, that begs the question: why doesn't have the otherwise stealthily shaped Kamorta a cover (and why does the older P17) ?

And if so, then P17 has only one set of twin trainable launchers, as there is no similar contraption on the starboard side. Not 2 triple lightweight or 2 twin heavyweight (as mostly stated)

Then again, a lot of people didn't want to believe me either when I said that Kamorta class doesn't have an antiship missile fitted (i.e. dual role heavyweight torpedoes are its main anti-ship weapon.)

On a ship like P17, if fitted with torpedo launchers, I would have expected fixed transversly mounted launchers. Such as found on Kolkatas and e.g. Fremm.

The area with the cover on F-48 is also way bigger than the opening would need to be for twin trainable tubes, taking Talwar as reference, and the door for the RIBs.

Folding Gangway example