Should MMRCA be Scrapped Versis TEJAS/MIRAGE2000_5

[MST]

Latest news MMRCA suggests Order to be delayed until 2012 March.
Knowing indians can see it Sep 2012.
This means First delivery 18 months later = 2014.
License production starts 2015-2016 earliest.

COST $10BILLION TO $15 BILLION depending on winner.

MEAN TIME

Typhoon orders been reduced by partners in favour of F35 lightening

PAK FA 2nd plane ready for Testing...

INDIA IS ABOUT TO WASTE $15 BILLION on a 4 generation MMRCA when fifth generation is around the cornor.

ITS TOO LATE WE TOOK LONG TO MAKE MMRCA HAPPEN.

Storm Force,
I don't understand your logic here. Let me ask you a few questions here.
1) Where do you think will the Mirage 2000 come from? Last I heard UAE was selling them for $60 million. Do you want to buy that?
2) What role do you have in mind for LCA? It can only act primarily as an interceptor. Don't think of it as a panacea for all ills.
3) Indian Airforce will retire most of its strike aircraft in coming 5-10 years. Mig -27 will go away. Jaguar are quite toothless pending the upgrade (which no one knows when it will happen).

Su 30MKI are primarily air superiority fighter and that is their main role.

So by your suggestion (minus Mirage which i don't think is coming) IAF will be left with primarily an Air Superiority fighter and an interceptor in the coming 10 years. This doesn't make much sense to me.

If cost is such a big issue then buy F18-SH for strike role. @55 Million a piece it will cost around 7Billion dollars. And then induct FGFA from 2020 which in addition to SU 30MKI will be for air superiority.

I am not even going to consider AMCA here as of now. Its still in wind tunnel testing phase. And whatever HAL/DRDO says of making it fly before 2020 I ain't buying that atleast for now. First show me the FGFA flying and then we can consider it.

 

[SR 71 Blackbird]

Antony recently told LS that MRCA induction will be completed by 2020 as HAL has opened 2 new production lines.

 

[baker]

in all probility india will witness a LICO like kargil rather then a full scale conventional war.

thats true if and only if our armed forces are superior .. other wise they will bring the conventional war..
so modernisation of armed forces is a kind of detterent in current era....

 

[MST]

India is not going to war in next 10 years. Take a chill pill.

How do you know that? Are you an astrologer?
If that is so lets cut down our defence by half for the next 10 years. No need to procure anything

Money for R&D is not such a big problem anymore that we have to close down our procurement. Dude this is not 1990s.

We can't wait for R&D to catch up and leave ourselves vulnerable for the next 10 years.

 

[shaktiman2010]

MMRCA is getting delayed "inadvertantly"because of our peculiar babu culture and lengthy procedures. its not intentional. i have few friends in Air HQ and MOD. my view is based on their inputs.

Why they will openly admit that and invite un-necessary controversy in MRCA process? Its logical - plausible deniability.

 

[luckyyy]

i think MMRCA will be on ,next 15 years , by 2025 , too many retirements ...mig-21 , mig-29 , mirage , jaguares and even some of the early su-30 will line up to retire..

so , almost 350 aircrafts will see retirement , without MMRCA , there is no way to fill the gap to equip 40 squadrens by 2025 ..

IAF looking for almost 800 aircrafts ..
by 2025 IAF will have
300 MKI
150 Tejas
50 FGFA

that's make only 500 , from where the rest 300 aircrafts will came without MMRCA..?

 

[shaktiman2010]

How do you know that? Are you an astrologer?

Yes, just like I knew Kaveri first flight would be a success.

If that is so lets cut down our defence by half for the next 10 years. No need to procure anything

Money for R&D is not such a big problem anymore that we have to close down our procurement. Dude this is not 1990s.

We can't wait for R&D to catch up and leave ourselves vulnerable for the next 10 years.

We are not cutting our defences. If you see IAF's budget over last 10 years, it has gone up each year.

But it is IAF's fault that they don't have any national security framework in place and are merely following import-crazy short-term mentality since decades. They waste all of their funds on highly expensive imports every 10 years and then they cry/beg for more budget.

 

[Frank Martin]

No...never MMRCA deal of Rafale or Typhoon or FA 18 is way better than LCA mk2 or Mirage 2000 versions.

 

[Skull and Bones]

If we discard MMRCA competition at this point after so much evaluation, we'll make a mockery out of ourselves. Its not like that the 4.5th gen aircrafts will be obsolete with the induction of 5th gen aircrafts. Even USA is making a future road map of F-18SH, while they had F-22 from the 90's and F-35 just around the corner.

 

[MST]

Yes, just like I knew Kaveri first flight would be a success.

You need to give me more of your success stories if you want me to believe that you are an astrologer
Anyways I said that in jest so don't take it seriously.

We are not cutting our defences. If you see IAF's budget over last 10 years, it has gone up each year.

But it is IAF's fault that they don't have any national security framework in place and are merely following import-crazy short-term mentality since decades. They waste all of their funds on highly expensive imports every 10 years and then they cry/beg for more budget.

It may be IAF's fault but you can't keep the future of the country vulnurable because some mistake was made in the past. You need to correct the mistake but at the same time keep the modernization on track.

 

[shaktiman2010]

It may be IAF's fault but you can't keep the future of the country vulnurable because some mistake was made in the past. You need to correct the mistake but at the same time keep the modernization on track.

Modernisation is happening but focus and speed must be on domestic R&D sector and not on foreign procurements.

Also, delays in MRCA has paid well. After GTRE's maturisation, now we are in a position to negotiate a better MRCA deal.

Imagine 2 years ago, many things were not even on offer. DRDO's advanced in LCA, Akash, Nag in recent 4-5 years has played a big role in what was being offered by MRCA suppliers.

French agreed to JV with DRDO only after GTRE's Kaveri passed High-altitude testing. Such JV are not offered just because we have money. So, India's real strength is in technologies that we innovate at home.

 

[MST]

Modernisation is happening but focus and speed must be on domestic R&D sector and not on foreign procurements.

Also, delays in MRCA has paid well. After GTRE's maturisation, now we are in a position to negotiate a better MRCA deal.

Imagine 2 years ago, many things were not even on offer. DRDO's advanced in LCA, Akash, Nag in recent 4-5 years has played a big role in what was being offered by MRCA suppliers.

French agreed to JV with DRDO only after GTRE's Kaveri passed High-altitude testing. Such JV are not offered just because we have money. So, India's real strength is in technologies that we innovate at home.

You are mixing up things. How are GTRE's Kaveri and MMRCA related?
I never denied advantages of indigenous R&D.

 

[shaktiman2010]

You are mixing up things. How are GTRE's Kaveri and MMRCA related?
I never denied advantages of indigenous R&D.

They are related in bigger scheme of things. See the bigger picture. MRCA is only a tactical tool but not a strategic asset. But, Kaveri is an strategic asset.

Technology is always an asset, products are not. One who focuses on R&D will win 20 years from now. China might be behind in terms of J-20 or whatever but they are much ahead now in metallurgy/aerospace R&D than India and no ToT gives you laboratory level DNA or experience in metallurgy or such fine sciences.

Need of time is massive push(funds+policies) in domestic R&D. Delay in MRCA is a good sign. It shows GoI is focusing in right areas.

 

[Kashmiripandit2]

If at all they scrap it now, next time all countries will ask a security payment of millions of dollars from our government for participation in any tender for the loss of it just in case. This deal has become too big and too touted to be scrapped off now. I wish they can buy something good in it and start allowing women to enroll for combat roles. The USA does it, Israel does it, England does it. Then why are we not allowed to?

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

why are we even discussing it now..useless thread.