IAF grappling with free fall in fighters, will have to fly upgraded MiG-21s

[chauvunist]

No. That would definitely not be called assembling. That would be called licensed manufacturing using the blueprints provided by the IP owning company. Technically, you can use the same technology to make an engine of your own (the things China is accused of a lot of times), but ethically & legally you can not.

Assembly is when you get all the manufactured parts from the IP owning company, and you simply assemble them(join them together). Like a lot of DIY tables and shelves that you can pick off walmart.

Does these blue prints include the metallurgic details of various metals and alloys used in the Engine???

 

[karan.1970]

Does these blue prints include the metallurgic details of various metals and alloys used in the Engine???

I am sure it does.. how else?

 

[faithfulguy]

At first please explain how did it take 30 years.talks,discussions & other stuff cannot be counted as development-full scale development & funding did not came until 1990s.
And IAF is not one of those airforces that would induct fighter jets for 'chest thumping purposes'.If it was,LCA would have been inducted long time ago.IAF wanted a mature platform.So cut the cr@p.

You know nothing about the development processes involved.Tejas mk2 is just like the 'blocks' of F 22,each being more mature than the former,and it'll only take less time in Indiction than mk 1.

The hornet was already rejected,and considering all proceduresrequired for acquiring stopgap measures,its better to wait till2015,and then have multiple assembly lines for Tejas.

But India do not need all these light weight fighters. So India cannot even plan the project properly. It should start out by planning to build a medium weight fighter. If you cannot plan it right, you end up spending money on development for a fighter you only need small numbers and then have to buy the medium weight fighters you want. Fail in planning, fail in project management, fail even in buying the right engine. Total failure.

 

[帅的一匹]

So you are from an army background.

In the language of the prince of darkness, IAF current operational doctrines is nonsense and need to be torn up and thrown in the dustbin.

Foreign buy should be the last resort of IAF. It should happen when there are no other alternatives available. That is how most 'professional' Air Force behave. Pampered air forces on the other hand has a different take on things.

Losing men to substandard manufacturing is real. So is death due to malnutrition and hunger. Death due to curable diseases, death due to road accidents, death due to riots ........ if you still haven't figured it out, let me help you.

In India the human life is less valuable that the value of life outside India (especially compared to richer nations). Not just civilian life, but non civilian life too. (No that there should be any need to be say that explicitly). Indian Army, Air force, navy need to suck it up and live the Indian reality rather than hang on to the reality of British India and their army traditions.

There is no moral ground here .... just cold reality.

Pouring 2 billion $ into the LCA 10 years back would have resolved most of its problems by now. I happen to be in the aerospace industry. There is no problem that cannot be solved with the right amount of money. Its as simple as that. Try to wrap that idea around you head before you think your stand is beyond reproach either.

IAF is like a child lingering in candy shop. IAF might be good at tactic, but a student at Strategic level.

 

[chauvunist]

I am sure it does.. how else?

If it would have been the case,Kaveri would not have faced such a drastic failure since the metallurgic details of fighter jet Engines are bound to be most secretive and worthy....

 

[karan.1970]

If it would have been the case,Kaveri would not have faced such a drastic failure since the metallurgic details of fighter jet Engines are bound to be most secretive and worthy....

There is no linkages to kaveri.. And yes, these details are secretive and worthy and that's why TOT is an expensive play...

 

[Indo-guy]

But India do not need all these light weight fighters. So India cannot even plan the project properly. It should start out by planning to build a medium weight fighter. If you cannot plan it right, you end up spending money on development for a fighter you only need small numbers and then have to buy the medium weight fighters you want. Fail in planning, fail in project management, fail even in buying the right engine. Total failure.

Failures are prelude to success !

Who have not failed in life ?

Have you never failed in life ....and never emerged successful thereafter !


The phrase " Total Failure " makes you sound like " God " ....


I hope you believe in what you just said ?


So according to you LCA is total failure ?

 

[faithfulguy]

Failures are prelude to success !

Who have not failed in life ?

Have you never failed in life ....and never emerged successful thereafter !


The phrase " Total Failure " makes you sound like " God " ....


I hope you believe in what you just said ?


So according to you LCA is total failure ?

I don't like to be harsh. But base on what happened, this project is a total failure. The biggest failure is when India didn't not know when to stop supporting a failed project. India should focus on a domestic program and live or die by it. But it didn't and when the project fails, it continue to support it while spend money on other programs.

 

[Indo-guy]

I don't like to be harsh. But base on what happened, this project is a total failure. The biggest failure is when India didn't not know when to stop supporting a failed project. India should focus on a domestic program and live or die by it. But it didn't and when the project fails, it continue to support it while spend money on other programs.

Whether its Total failure .....only future will tell !!!

Be cautious when you try to predict future ....


If IAF gets sizeable squadrons of LCA Mk2 then your statement that it is Total failure won't be valid ....


I don't like to be blind nationalist ....

Let us see ....we should know in another 5 years whether it's failure or not ...!!!

 

[chauvunist]

There is no linkages to kaveri.. And yes, these details are secretive and worthy and that's why TOT is an expensive play...

But Boasting is always cheap,which comes frequently from your side...

 

[karan.1970]

But Boasting is always cheap,which comes frequently from your side...

About what? Spending ToT money or being able to manufacture an engine locally?

 

[faithfulguy]

Whether its Total failure .....only future will tell !!!

Be cautious when you try to predict future ....


If IAF gets sizeable squadrons of LCA Mk2 then your statement that it is Total failure won't be valid ....


I don't like to be blind nationalist ....

Let us see ....we should know in another 5 years whether it's failure or not ...!!!

You are correct that it might not be a failure in the future. But as of now, its a failure. And because it had failed so miserably, its difficult to see how it will be successful. Especially that India is pinning its hope on foreign planes, it hard to see if this fighter could be successful.

 

[chauvunist]

About what? Spending ToT money or being able to manufacture an engine locally?

Whatever mate,unless you build something indigenous Don't boast about assembled stuff being indigenous...

 

[karan.1970]

Whatever mate,unless you build something indigenous Don't boast about assembled stuff being indigenous...

No one boasted about it being indigenous mate.. Atleast I did not...Indigenous manufacturing (not assembling) also does not mean indigenous product .

 

[Koovie]

I HATE TO SAY I TOLD YOU SO.

MMRCA will not be signed in india,s current financial plight.

I too hope we stick with LCA1 & MK2 and forget the rafale

its too late

Yeah, as if the IAF will ever want to fly those planes which are inferior and less capable in almost EVERY aspect! not to mention the fact that the MK2 is just a paper plane.

We should rather go for more MKIs for the meantime.