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Saudi security is a red line | Pakistan

Peace Within & Peace Without - But I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket ever again; especially if that basket happens to be a Muslim Majority Country !

I trust Turkey, China & Sri Lanka but I dunno if I can trust most Muslim Countries out there !

I agree that we must never focus on building ties with one nation alone. Relations with all nations are beneficial, & every country has to be dealt with in its own way. Anyway, we can discuss this topic later because I need to respond to another thread.
 
I am all for the evidence, bring it up.

The context of my post is simple, Saud is a regime that came into existence due to a favor offered to them in exchange of ending caliphate.

I suggest you read the causes and pretext to the WW1 and how Balfour declaration was indirectly related to it. Sauds have betrayed the ummah big time. They can be anything but they dont represent Islam by any stretch of imagination.

Excuse me sir, but you are in serious need of reading some accurate history books.

First of all KSA was NEVER a colony of anyone. Unlike many other Arab countries and some other states that are discussed in this thread. Nor Britain nor France. Our borders were not drawn. In fact it was the work of the Ikhwan, Al-Saud and the tribes loyal to them. In fact the British had to stop them in Kuwait and elsewhere otherwise much more land would be conquered.

Secondly Al-Saud nor KSA had anything to do with the Balfour declaration.

Lastly many forget that we Arabs ruled as Caliphs for the first nearly 1000 years of Islamic history. Under the Golden Age of Islam and during a period when Islam spread all over the world. From the Rashidun to the Umayyad to the Fatimid and Abbasid etc. The Ottoman Turks just took a finished product and copied it so to speak.

Why is it that you do not see us Arabs crying about Turks stealing "our" Caliphate 450 years ago after their cousins the Mongols sacked Baghdad and the Abbasids had to rule as nominal Caliphs from Cairo after the Sacking of Baghdad in 1258 until the early 1500's. Ordinary Muslims don't understand the devastation that followed for the Muslim world. It is still felt today. That is a long discussion though not really tied to this thread.

Surprinsgly we never hear about that part of history. Those people critical of Arabs for that reason should get over it and remember their own past and copying of culture/system. It is really pathetic.

Besides all those rulers were more Sultans than actual Caliphs and if you read about them you would know how many un-Islamic things they engaged in. That also goes for the later Arab Caliphs be they Fatimids or Abbasids.

You probably know why we Sunni Muslims only consider 4 Caliphs as the rightly guided ones. That is for a reason.

Otherwise known as the Rashidun. The persons who laid all the fundaments for the Islamic world including the later Caliphates.

You are welcome.

EDIT: Oh, did I mention that the Al-Saud ruled parts of Najd long before any European involvement in the Middle East directly in the form of colonies?

No, I am not particular fond of the House of Saud nor am I a worshipper of them as some have called 1-2 Saudis here. I am just stating some historical facts to show you and others that you are not correct.
 
Yes, I am nationalist and Pakistan's best interest over emotional. I see benefits both Saudi Arabia/Pakistan for Middle East peace unlike Iran arrogance.
You can't be a nationalist Pakistani if you choose for Saudi instead of Iran. It's really weird, because Pakistanis are an Indo-Iranian nation like most of Iran. I think you're confused a little bit. Read both of these pages, it's interesting.
Iran
India

Nationalism is not based on some shia-sunni fights or wrong decisions by politicians in the past 30/40 years.
 
I am all for the evidence, bring it up.

The context of my post is simple, Saud is a regime that came into existence due to a favor offered to them in exchange of ending caliphate.

I suggest you read the causes and pretext to the WW1 and how Balfour declaration was indirectly related to it. Sauds have betrayed the ummah big time. They can be anything but they dont represent Islam by any stretch of imagination.

The most recent event i know of how they use religion as a political tool, back in June, Saudi foreign minister met with his Russian counterpart and offered him a deal to support US/ Saudi position on Syria issue and step against Iran, in exchange, they would use their "influence" over rebels in Checheniya. Does this ring a bell?

If I may interject in this conversation:

In history losers loose because they fail to understand what they are up against. Ottoman is history, but House of Saud is still standing and they did not have oil at that time. That should tell you something. If the House of Saud was smarter than the Ottoman, you cannot blame them for that.

And you cannot say Saudi Arabia do not represent Islam, they are as much Muslim as any.

I don't know what your agenda is, but clearly your popularly elected Prime Minister does not agree with your views.

I for one believe that Saudi Arabia holds the key to turn around the fate of the Muslim world from its current predicament. All the elements are there, it is up to us if we can take advantage of this, instead of blaming each other and outsiders for current situation of Muslims.
 
Excuse me sir, but you are in serious need of reading some accurate history books.

First of all KSA was NEVER a colony of anyone. Unlike many other Arab countries and some other states that are discussed in this thread. Nor Britain nor France. Our borders were not drawn. In fact it was the work of the Ikhwan, Al-Saud and the tribes loyal to them. In fact the British had to stop them in Kuwait and elsewhere otherwise much more land would be conquered.

Secondly Al-Saud nor KSA had anything to do with the Balfour declaration.

Lastly many forget that we Arabs ruled as Caliphs for the first nearly 1000 years of Islamic history. Under the Golden Age of Islam and during a period when Islam spread all over the world. From the Rashidun to the Umayyad to the Fatimid and Abbasid etc. The Ottoman Turks just took a finished product and copied it so to speak.

Why is it that you do not see us Arabs crying about Turks stealing "our" Caliphate 450 years ago after their cousins the Mongols sacked Baghdad and the Abbasids had to rule as nominal Caliphs from Cairo after the Sacking of Baghdad in 1258 until the early 1500's. Ordinary Muslims don't understand the devastation that followed for the Muslim world. It is still felt today. That is a long discussion though not really tied to this thread.

Surprinsgly we never hear about that part of history. Those people critical of Arabs for that reason should get over it and remember their own past and copying of culture/system. It is really pathetic.

Besides all those rulers were more Sultans than actual Caliphs and if you read about them you would know how many un-Islamic things they engaged in. That also goes for the later Arab Caliphs be they Fatimids or Abbasids.

You probably know why we Sunni Muslims only consider 4 Caliphs as the rightly guided ones. That is for a reason.

Otherwise known as the Rashidun. The persons who laid all the fundaments for the Islamic world including the later Caliphates.

You are welcome.

Oh please, if you cant defend your position, dont twist words the way you have. Those in the caliphate for 1000 years were a different breed (most noble of men for all of us muslims). I dont want to debate The Islamic history here. Saud dynasty is not noble. Its a well known fact without a doubt.

Thanks


evidence of the document signed by Saud, revels his allegiance to British rule


Islam Times - Historical document reveals Al-Saud
 
Oh please, if you cant defend your position, dont twist words the way you have. Those in the caliphate for 1000 years were a different breed (most noble of men for all of us muslims). I dont want to debate The Islamic history here. Saud dynasty is not noble. Its a well known fact without a doubt.

Thanks

Where have I said that the House of Saud are "noble". They are not more noble than any other Muslim rulers today. Including your own and past ones.

Please counter what I said or just admit that you are wrong which you are looking at it historically even if you do not admit it here.

And yes, we are happy to have ties with friendly nations that have never harmed us. This includes you, China, USA, West, EU and many other states. Just to name a few. Besides all the Muslim and Arab allies. I mentioned a lot of non-Muslims states to make a point here. This is the year 2013.
 
It's easy to talk about protecting another country to the death, when you know they're not in danger.

Who really wants to attack KSA? the only country which may 'want' to, is Iran.

Who would be stupid enough? no one, not even the Mullahs.


Anyway, Jewish Medina is under the umbrella of Israel :cheesy:
 
If I may interject in this conversation:

In history losers loose because they fail to understand what they are up against. Ottoman is history, but House of Saud is still standing and they did not have oil at that time. That should tell you something. If the House of Saud was smarter than the Ottoman, you cannot blame them for that.

And you cannot say Saudi Arabia do not represent Islam, they are as much Muslim as any.

I don't know what your agenda is, but clearly your popularly elected Prime Minister do not agree with your views.

I for one believe that Saudi Arabia holds the key to turn around the fate of the Muslim world from its current predicament. All the elements are there, it is up to us if we can take advantage of this, instead of blaming each other and outsiders for current situation of Muslims.

he elected by massive rigging, not popular vote. :rofl:
 
Where have I said that the House of Saud are "noble". They are not more noble than any other Muslim rulers today. Including your own and past ones.

Please counter what I said or just admit that you are wrong which you are looking at it historically even if you do not admit it here.

And yes, we are happy to have ties with friendly nations that have never harmed us. This includes you, China, USA, West, EU and other states. This is the year 2013.

read the edited post above, you will behappier that Al-Saud agreed to give palestine to poor jews.
 
read the edited post above, you will behappier that Al-Saud agreed to give palestine to poor jews.

So you turned from making untrue claims to just simple trolling that is completely irrelevant to this thread? Al-Saud giving Palestine up to the Jews? Beg you pardon? You are really giving us special powers. I wonder where the rest of the Muslim world is?
 
read the edited post above, you will behappier that Al-Saud agreed to give palestine to poor jews.

It's our homeland. Born and brought up in it 2,000 years before Muslims were a twinkle in Allah's eye.

We're the grandfathers of the region and we eat Werthers original sweets.

We can still kick *** though, so watch it.
 
The US dedicated itself to death for protecting her allies including Israel :cheesy:
It's easy to talk about protecting another country to the death, when you know they're not in danger.

Who would be stupid enough? no one, not even the Mullahs.

Anyway, Jewish Medina is under the umbrella of Israel :cheesy:

Don't worry, I'm sure we are good by now. After all, we only use our guns in an act of self-defense.

Who really wants to attack KSA? the only country which may 'want' to, is Iran.

And you think they haven't tried over the last 30ish years :rofl: :omghaha:
 
It's our homeland. Born and brought up in it 2,000 years before Muslims were a twinkle in Allah's eye.

We're the grandfathers of the region and we eat Werthers original sweets.

We can still kick *** though, so watch it.

Ignored, you should thank the Brits for that
 
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