Saudi Arabia seeks Pakistan's cooperation for NATO-like military alliance

[kasper95]

This would indeed isolate India. Any attack on Pakistan from India would invoke not just China but also these member states.

It is very true that the Muslim Countries should take care of their own interests.

no one is going to fight Pakistan's wars nor China nor the Arabs .
the sooner you understand the better.

 

[Azadkashmir]

tuba karoo is this nation mad. forget the goddamn cursed arabs. ummah is not there, we are not part of the oic and have no say in it.

at this point i seriously wishe i had funds to buy my own newspaper for influncing my people and reguarly write abiout arab trachery and pakistan stupidty. atleast this way people wil become aware and protest.

1. we were alone fighting india many times, no one ummah was there
2.kashmir issue no ummah support
3. pak goes thru finacial hard times but iran and arabia trade in the bilions with india.
4. pakistani cant marry arabi or own land etc.
5. arab/iran fund proxy in our backyard.
6. if shtf they grass us up to un /usa like about nuclear which iran grassed
7. gawadaor port issue
8.as far as i am concerned they both are crypto proxy for zionist dressed up as muslim government.


oh good luck selling the jf 17 lolz iran does better job advertising using photoshop.

by the way good luck with boalichistan i bet you if pak had weak military iran wuld have gobbled it up and make it shia state like iraq.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Thank you for asking for my opinion. I think this is rather an interesting development from the Arab world. But this will produce a tremendous opportunity (power projection in the long run) for Pakistan.

I recently posted an article I came across, where Pakistan was listed at the number 3 super power. Although, I disagree with that idea, the author's rating and logic was in the right direction. So move Pakistan from number 3 to number 6 or 7, that would be a better place. So expect Pakistan to be the top 6th or 7th major military power. You'll see signs of this starting 2020 and by 2025, you'll start to see the power projection.

Now in terms of this joint exercise with the KSA and all, one thing is for sure, more orders of the JFT are bound to come in a relatively short amount of time. Plus, an advance variant will be created, when I say advance, I am not talking about current JFT block III. I am referring to may be block III but with much more Western tech and other gadgets in it due to JFT joining this alliance and KSA and others will use their resources (plus money from the sales), to integrate Western weapons in it too. When the French see the JFT in like 5-7 nations within the ME area, they will not have an issue in selling and integrating their missiles, that's for sure. Arabs have huge leverage over the Europeans due to billions of weapons they buy.

Same expansion will come from the PN's standpoint. Overall, Pakistan's military is probably the most experienced military in that entire Eastern region. So the Arabs would want the Pakistanis to lead their fight against the terrorism threat that everyone faces. Overtime, this alliance will become more operational then the initial few years.

The French have realised that India has played them on the Rafale fighter aircraft, Pakistan has moved forward with the JF-17. If France has to sell Pakistan systems then they have to be the most advance ones, so for this reason they have offered the same engines Rafale uses for JF-17-B. Hope fully some other stuff would also make way specially for those countries that will be operating the Rafale and JF-17's.

The EFT may well be reducing their price and provide similar western solutions.

However in one of the other threads did read South African companies are also interested in providing cheep western options.Also you quoted that Russia is also very happy to provide their weapons for the JFT.

The weakest link in the region is the Navy so that needs to be addressed.

CPEC and the future development projects supported by Saudia would definitely move Pakistan to ecconomic power player of the region even if not in the top 10 of the world.

Pakistan should play careful and positive role, and should try to bridge the gaps and bring remain Muslim countries on board as well provided that purpose of the alliance is to cooperate and fight terrorism and insurgencies (90% of terrorism and insurgencies will in region will be eliminated if all of them become sincere).

PS: OP follow the rules of PDF and don't forget to add the source.

Source is present in the very first sentence. any ways here is the link

Saudi Arabia seeks Pakistan's cooperation for NATO-like military alliance - Pakistan - Dunya News

 

[Viper0011.]

The French have realised that India has played them on the Rafale fighter aircraft, Pakistan has moved forward with the JF-17. If France has to sell Pakistan systems then they have to be the most advance ones, so for this reason they have offered the same engines Rafale uses for JF-17-B. Hope fully some other stuff would also make way specially for those countries that will be operating the Rafale and JF-17's.

The EFT may well be reducing their price and provide similar western solutions.

However in one of the other threads did read South African companies are also interested in providing cheep western options.Also you quoted that Russia is also very happy to provide their weapons for the JFT.

The weakest link in the region is the Navy so that needs to be addressed.

CPEC and the future development projects supported by Saudia would definitely move Pakistan to ecconomic power player of the region even if not in the top 10 of the world.

This is called Joint Ventures. Let's say you are the CEO of Dassault or MBDA, etc, you know there is a plane out there called the JF-17B. You also know its a tier below your top end jet (Rafale), so there is not an apples to apple comparison so you know there is no competition. But you also know the manufacturer holds a lot of influence on say ten different countries. Let's say these 10 countries buy 100-150 JFT's. If you as a French or Russian weapons producer were smart, you could EASILY make $ 5-10 billion out of this by offering integration and your missiles and other "accessories". These are $ 5-10 billions that you would otherwise never have..........and this is A LOT of money. $ 5-10 billion can keep thousands of engineers at work for the next decade and the company can do more R&D and show profit. So why not get that extra piece of the pie, without having to spend a dime in JFT's R&D, manufacturing, etc? This is a lot of easy money. Everyone would want it.

Once Pakistan becomes economically stronger in the next ten years, I will not be surprised if they offer some American weapons package for some future version of some Pakistani product like a JFT block 5. After all, providing a radar that's not going to ever match the F-22 or F-35, and missiles, etc, Lockheed, Raytheon and others can make that easy money and a few billions is actually a lot of money and everyone would want it.

 

[Humble Analyst]

We don't get their money and we don't owe them anything. Corrupt politicians do. Iran is not an issue here to begin with. If there were no country called Iran , it is still a bad idea.

We don't get their money and we don't owe them anything. Corrupt politicians do. Iran is not an issue here to begin with. If there were no country called Iran , it is still a bad idea.

How do you know we do not owe them or do no take money from them?

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Good idea. High time Muslim countries take care of their own problems instead of relying on US or other superpowers.

Would help if the americans would stop interferring in Middle Ea

Good idea. High time Muslim countries take care of their own problems instead of relying on US or other superpowers.

Would help if the americans would stop interferring in Middle Eastern/Muslim nations were they are not liked or wanted. Would also help if the americans would stop committing holocausts/genocides against innocent Muslims in places like Iraq (2003-2012) or Afghanistan (2001-Present). americans have 0 in common with Middle Eastern people/ Muslims so I don't know why they are morbidly so interested in those people.

no one is going to fight Pakistan's wars nor China nor the Arabs .
the sooner you understand the better.

No but they certainly can provide the means and finances to do so. We don't need any more fighting men. Pakistan already has way more than enough for that purpose.

 

[That Guy]

No thanks, Pakistan should strive to be as neutral as possible.

 

[New Resolve]

Sure i'm for it as long as:
Its meant to fight terrorism and not sectarian wars or
at most to defend a member of the alliance if they get attacked.

 

[Khafee]

Thank you for asking for my opinion. I think this is rather an interesting development from the Arab world. But this will produce a tremendous opportunity (power projection in the long run) for Pakistan.

I recently posted an article I came across, where Pakistan was listed at the number 3 super power. Although, I disagree with that idea, the author's rating and logic was in the right direction. So move Pakistan from number 3 to number 6 or 7, that would be a better place. So expect Pakistan to be the top 6th or 7th major military power. You'll see signs of this starting 2020 and by 2025, you'll start to see the power projection.

Now in terms of this joint exercise with the KSA and all, one thing is for sure, more orders of the JFT are bound to come in a relatively short amount of time. Plus, an advance variant will be created, when I say advance, I am not talking about current JFT block III. I am referring to may be block III but with much more Western tech and other gadgets in it due to JFT joining this alliance and KSA and others will use their resources (plus money from the sales), to integrate Western weapons in it too. When the French see the JFT in like 5-7 nations within the ME area, they will not have an issue in selling and integrating their missiles, that's for sure. Arabs have huge leverage over the Europeans due to billions of weapons they buy.

Same expansion will come from the PN's standpoint. Overall, Pakistan's military is probably the most experienced military in that entire Eastern region. So the Arabs would want the Pakistanis to lead their fight against the terrorism threat that everyone faces. Overtime, this alliance will become more operational then the initial few years.

KSA can easily challenge India and actually take you down also. Remember, if you ever had this scenario played out, you'll be involved in a Naval and Air battle with them. Outside of an AC, they have advance weapons system to deal with pretty much anyone outside of the US. Plus an AC become a no barrier due to their superior aircraft and weapons systems.

Imagine what 300-400 of your top-line jets would be facing, a massive barrage of modern jets like the EFT, F-15's, F-15SA, etc. KSA and India would both be future's regional power. Indian Army would be massive obviously but you can't deploy a million men across the ocean. Its only good for China and Pakistan. The rest you'll fight someone with, will be the IN. So you could build 2 more AC's and have 60-80 planes on them each, KSA's air-force can deal with them. Their pilots have been trained by the USAF / USN and have recent combat experience alongside with the US in many operations.



Here we go with bullshiit. Indians (Hindus) have been fighting each other for the entire time (thousands of years) of their mythology and Vedic times. You forget that. What happened recently in India between Dalat hindus and the "Brahmans"? What's has been happening across centuries between all 4 casts of hindus? (not to mention what are the ruling Hindu extremists doing today to all their minorities who are Indian citizens for centuries)???? Would you like for me to write a few chapters from the Geeta on here? Or provide reference to some "Vedic" events???

Learn to smell your own shiit before you point to other people's smelly shit. All culture have hate, fights and all between them. Unfortunately, that's just humans at their best, never happy, always fighting and wanting something from others.

@Irfan Baloch @Oscar : guys, don't give me a warning. I am merely setting the record straight. Not insulting anyone's religion or anything.

As much as I have disagreed with you in the past, in this case you have left me speechless. Didn't think you were capable of such analysis.

If you'd just quit being a noora fan boy, you would actually be much better than some of the TT's in here!

Anyways thank you for your +ve input, and sincerely looking forward to your future posts.

Best Regards

 

[cloud4000]

KSA can easily challenge India and actually take you down also. Remember, if you ever had this scenario played out, you'll be involved in a Naval and Air battle with them. Outside of an AC, they have advance weapons system to deal with pretty much anyone outside of the US. Plus an AC become a no barrier due to their superior aircraft and weapons systems.

Imagine what 300-400 of your top-line jets would be facing, a massive barrage of modern jets like the EFT, F-15's, F-15SA, etc. KSA and India would both be future's regional power. Indian Army would be massive obviously but you can't deploy a million men across the ocean. Its only good for China and Pakistan. The rest you'll fight someone with, will be the IN. So you could build 2 more AC's and have 60-80 planes on them each, KSA's air-force can deal with them. Their pilots have been trained by the USAF / USN and have recent combat experience alongside with the US in many operations.

I don't share your confidence in Saudi Arabia and its military. Judging by how they fumbled Yemen, I remain unimpressed. That they sought military help from Pakistan was quite telling.

And it doesn't matter how good Saudi military equipment is, it's about the men who operate it, from the foot soldier to the generals. Sorry, but the Saudis aren't good fighters.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

This would indeed isolate India. Any attack on Pakistan from India would invoke not just China but also these member states.

It is very true that the Muslim Countries should take care of their own interests.

You know on another forum I had a right heated discussion about average IQ across the world. Various Western studies have shown that Chinese/East Asians come top in IQ followed by Europeans and then the pecking order sort of goes down to us and Africa. Reading some of the comments here makes me worried maybe those studies are correct after all. Here is few facts that you need to chew on.

(1) CENTO/SEATO was gift from the heavens for Pakistan in 1950s/1960s. All those Sabre jets, Patton Tanks, Mangla/Tarbela Dams, new contonments, new capital city came thanks to CENTO membeship during Ayub Khan's period. In those days Pakistan was desperately poor. CENTO membership helped us to milch Uncle Sam. Look at the graph below. From 1950 on to 1970 look at the aid. Consider that what is now Pakistan had a tiny population of only about 35 million yet the aid was slightly less than what we got in 2010 which was huge as consequence of US tangle in Afghanistan and their reliance on Pak logistics. On back of that US even agreed and gave new F-16s. Consider that in 2016 Pakistan is far more prosperous than 1960 but it struggles to finance new dam construction. Yet in 1960s Pak initiated Tarbela and Mangla dams which still are the largest dams in Pak today. All that is fruits of CENTO.

(2) As regards Saudia. it's a joke. In early 1990s Iraq invaded Kuwait. Iraq was bitter enemy of Pakistan and had sided with India. Te Saudi's paid USA over $350 billion (probably over $700 billion in todays money) to evict Iraq out of Kuwait. Tell me guy's why did SA not ask Pak to do it in conjunction with USA. Give $125 billion to Pak which would have put Pakistan on the road to economic mini power by now and Pak would have been easily able to provide protection to the entire region?

The fact is Saudi's gaurantor is USA. As history proves. SA buy's latest military technology from USA. Why would Saudi need F-15s? A cheaper aircraft like Mirage 2000 would be more than sufficient for any local conflict. Instead of buying expensive useless tecnology which it still can't defend itself as proven by the need to depend om US Army in 1990. Instead the saved money could be used to support Pak military where the returns would be far greater. The fact is Saudi only needs Pak to get involved in it's little dirty intrusions like Yeman etc. If serious threat is posed against it it will run to USA. Not Pakistan.

Instead of buying useless and expensive Abrams tanks Saudi could easiy join Pakistan in joint tank manufacture. Pak know how and Saudi money would be a dream ticket to great things. However that is not to be. Saudi is USA addict. It will buy USA stuff just to buy influence in USA. Sort of keep USA sweet. The only alliance that matters in Riyad is US/Saudia. Rest is just bullshat.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Interesting prospects

There is generally no harm in any military alliance

However I think first we need trade policies to help develop trade between the regional partners etc to grow the cooperation and then slowly evolve a military alliance

It would be ok Idea to have donated 30,000 Troops few squadrons initially for International collaboration, participate in joint military operations

Again it is a very challenging aspect to combine military cooperation great idea but needs 10-15 years of planning

Present threat is just Terrorism and that can be handled with collaborative missions

However Turkey - Saudia - Pakistan - Egypt , could create a strong core

But would be nice to start collaboration in trade sector

 

[cloud4000]

Would help if the americans would stop interferring in Middle Eastern/Muslim nations were they are not liked or wanted. Would also help if the americans would stop committing holocausts/genocides against innocent Muslims in places like Iraq (2003-2012) or Afghanistan (2001-Present). americans have 0 in common with Middle Eastern people/ Muslims so I don't know why they are morbidly so interested in those people.

I blame the Gulf states for this too. They lean on US too much. Whenever there is trouble, they go running to Washington. Give basing rights to US military.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I think NATO before it was formed , they actually participated in collaboration and then WW2 before the cooperation was maintained later after war

There has to be ample definition of constitution for the organization , the leadership and goals and that takes time to sort out

An interesting development but really the sequence should be

1) Trade - Human Relations cooperation (First 5-10 years)
> More cooperation on Field of Education
> More collaboration in Health Science / Medicine
> More reforms in collaboration on companies opening businesses across partner countries

What about relaxed trade agreement ?

2) Collaboration (Continues Military exercises)
> Establishment of Trade between Military / Training / Equipment

3) Poverty Reduction

Exchange of ideas between

> Universities
> Economist
> Financial policy makers
> Entrepreneurs/ Businesses Expos


4) Military Alliance
Gradual growth of the Military cooperation with Goals and board definition of cooperation
(10-15 Year)

Only after such definitive steps have to be taken over 10-15 years can a workable organization can exist due to the complexities of modern society and complex Geo political challenges different countries face

Also there has to be a more broad discussion on how disputes against decisions would be handled and what kind of Diplomatic mechanism would be there for decisions - again this needs great amount of debate between members (possible members)


Example:

* Honorary full member China (Since china is one of the most peaceful nations of world)
Also China is the oldest civilization in world so makes sense to invite them to an alliance

* There may be some other invites depending on need

----------------Core----------------------
Pakistan - Democratic Republic
Turkey - Democratic
Egypt - Authoritarian Control
Saudia - Monarchy
Algeria - Military
UAE - Monarchy
Qatar - Monarchy
Kuwait - Monarchy
Oman - Monarchy
Malaysia - Democracy
Indonesia - Democracy
Tunisia - Military / Democracy
Bangladesh - Quaky Democracy/ Military
Morocco - Monarchy
-------------------------------------------------------
Conditional - after review (Jordan)
Conditional - after review (Lebanon) (Messed up)
Conditional - after review (Palestine) (Messed up)
Conditional - after review (Iran)
Conditional - after review (Iraq) (Messed up)
Conditional - after review (Afghanistan) (Messed up)
Conditional - after review (Libya) (Messed up)
Conditional - Central Asian Countries
Conditional - Sudan / Syria (Messed up)


The countries do not have a universally agreeable format of governance , the decision making process is different so the process of agreeable operational principle is something that will at least take 10-15 years

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Why do you guys think that I was so ferociously in favor of the Yemen alliance!

Why do you guys think that pak army should take charge of the issue solely and resolve the issue!

It was for this very reason----there is no way out---it is a very different world where things move at lightening speed and if you are not already in the arena----you are done and out---.

Pakistan should accept the natural order of things for the region---. There is no nation in the world whose economy has not been built on war and defence---.