Rising Sun doesn't like to watch the Dragon rise

[chauism]

First off, Chauism and Chinaowneverthing, will you two pls remove the picture in your posts? It is downright offensive to the dead and to us readers !!!

Thank you.

You got it.

2. some here are right to point out that Japan's new generation has barely anything to do with WWII. Without telling me
his/her nationality, many young Japanese I know could well be mistaken as Chinese or Korean. The three eastern Asain countries should make friends.

Totally agree.

3. The notion that Japanese is superior, peddled by some of its ultra right wingers and repeated by some media and posters, is neither the representative of what common Japanese think nor as per DNA reality. Accroding to NDA study of Japanese ( i posted this before in another thread about new Japanese PM several months ago) conducted by a Japanese reaseach institute:

More than 25% , the largest share, of Japanese Mitochondrial DNA is related to Han Chinese, less than 24% of which is related to Korean, the rest smaller percentages are related to many diverse indigenous tribes of many places. All in all, Japanese is a mixed-race, with largest dominant DNA being Han Chinese indeed. Where is that "racial" supeority crap?

It indeed is crap.

4. The notion that many modern Chinese words come from Japan ( listed by Chauism) is as valid as most "Japanese Characters" originally came from Chinese anyway. What's the point?

The point is the Japanese contemporary culture also has its influences on many other east Asian cultures as its culture had been influenced by Chinese culture in the past.

5. In spite of the temporal fact that Japan is way ahead in general techonogies and human development Index compared with China and Korea due to its > 100 years headstart, personally I believe that China can more or less catch up, on an individual level, within 2 generations for most of its areas if move along the right direction.

China had the same opportunities as Japan for its modernizations at the same time, but two countries took a completely different path. 50 years later when Japan defeated China in the first Sino-Japanese War, the Qing government yet still continued on with its conservative path. If history can repeat itself again, I think it will be the same result as the mentalities of both nations were set quite differently at that time. It was not a coincidence that Japan emerged as a world power and China remained backward. So the head start argument is not that valid. China actually had longer history of contacts with western powers than Japan had. So it was a story of "race between rabbit and turtle". As for HDI as concerned, even when China can reach the same level of GDP per capita and HDI, it will still take longer for China to match Japanese people's display of their discipline.

6. Japanese-German analogy is inadequate:

During WWII, Germans have almost NEVER racially descriminated other non-German white Europeans, at least not to fellow French and Brits, to the same extent that Japanese did to Chinese and Koreans.

How ironic is that when both Hitler and Hermann Göring ( the "supposed" superior Aryan race) who treated both Chinese and Japanese as equals to Germans ( refer to Hitler's very own remarks) , but trusted Chinese more than Japanese as their allies in the first part of WWII?

Post WWII, Germans, both its govts and civilians, did (and have been doing so) a heck of jobs in apologising to fellow Europeans, from their hearts, by words and in deeds. Japanese govts however, largely didn't.

During WW II, even though there were level of racial motivated mistreatment of Korean and Chinese, however in general if one accepted Japanese's rule and agreed to be a subject of the Empire, they were not treated badly as you would think. In China, there were large fraction of Koreans in Japanese army fighting and working for the Japanese voluntarily against Chinese. Taiwan was also a good example of that.

As for the attitude of apologizing, as I said in my other post, it was the American to blame. There is a big difference between composition of governments between Japan and Germany.

See, that you really got to blame the Americans. Because right after the WW II, many of the Japanese War Criminals including Taro Aso's grandfather Shigeru Yoshida were brought back into politics from imprisonment by the Americans because no one else left in Japan has the power to fight politically with the communist party of Japan. It is much easier for Germany to blame everything on and apologize for the previous government where as for Japan it is different. They did apologize for what they did in WW II, but I guess not as sincere as others has demanded. Give it time, they will face that period of history with better attitude. It happens with all the countries with their incumbent government. How long it took US to apologize for its government's wrong doings?

So here is the thick line:

Until Japan does it to China and Korea, and from the heart, it would have no qualification what-so-ever to lead Asia.

I have no problem insisting on Japan apologizing as long as same can be said by the others who had done more atrocities to the Chinese like European in the 19th century, Manchurian in the 17th century, and Mongolians 12th century. Even the mistreatment of Chinese POW by USA during the Korean War should be added to that list. That was only what they did to China, and that did not disqualify some of the countries mentioned above to become leaders of the world today.

 

[CardSharp]

Yeah, too bad China is not a nation of slaves.

During WW II, even though there were level of racial motivated mistreatment of Korean and Chinese, however in general if one accepted Japanese's rule and agreed to be a subject of the Empire, they were not treated badly as you would think.

 

[chauism]

Yeah, too bad China is not a nation of slaves.

Look no further, just Qing dynasty itself.

I was reading a history book on Qing dynasty. In the early days of their conquering of China. When troops were ordered to massacre a town of 400 people belongs to Ming, it only took 17 Manchurian soldiers to finish the job. Those 400 people would actually lineup themselves orderly for the beheading. It was really sad, but then one has to wonder how big actually was Manchu, and how big was Ming Empire. How many people Manchu had, and how many people Ming Empire had. What went wrong there. It was as ridiculous as saying today US is invaded and conquered by Colombia, and Colombian actually rules USA without any major resistance for more than 200 years.

 

[CardSharp]

Look no further, just Qing dynasty itself.

Ahh I knew you were going to raise that example. Doesn't mean it was right. I myself am not enamored with a conqueror's rule or wish for it now.

whatever, this is a messy subject, I think I'll leave it alone.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

First off, Chauism and Chinaowneverthing, will you two pls remove the picture in your posts? It is downright offensive to the dead and to us readers !!!

Thank you.



2. some here are right to point out that Japan's new generation has barely anything to do with WWII. Without telling me his/her nationality, many young Japanese I know could well be mistaken as Chinese or Korean. The three eastern Asain countries should make friends.



3. The notion that Japanese is superior, peddled by some of its ultra right wingers and repeated by some media and posters, is neither the representative of what common Japanese think nor as per DNA reality. Accroding to NDA study of Japanese ( i posted this before in another thread about new Japanese PM several months ago) conducted by a Japanese reaseach institute:

More than 25% , the largest share, of Japanese Mitochondrial DNA is related to Han Chinese, less than 24% of which is related to Korean, the rest smaller percentages are related to many diverse indigenous tribes of many places. All in all, Japanese is a mixed-race, with largest dominant DNA being Han Chinese indeed. Where is that "racial" supeority crap?



4. The notion that many modern Chinese words come from Japan ( listed by Chauism) is as valid as most "Japanese Characters" originally came from Chinese anyway. What's the point?



5. In spite of the temporal fact that Japan is way ahead in general techonogies and human development Index compared with China and Korea due to its > 100 years headstart, personally I believe that China can more or less catch up, on an individual level, within 2 generations for most of its areas if move along the right direction.



6. Japanese-German analogy is inadequate:

During WWII, Germans have almost NEVER racially descriminated other non-German white Europeans, at least not to fellow French and Brits, to the same extent that Japanese did to Chinese and Koreans.

How ironic is that when both Hitler and Hermann Göring ( the "supposed" superior Aryan race) who treated both Chinese and Japanese as equals to Germans ( refer to Hitler's very own remarks) , but trusted Chinese more than Japanese as their allies in the first part of WWII?

Post WWII, Germans, both its govts and civilians, did (and have been doing so) a heck of jobs in apologising to fellow Europeans, from their hearts, by words and in deeds. Japanese govts however, largely didn't.


So here is the thick line:

Until Japan does it to China and Korea, and from the heart, it would have no qualification what-so-ever to lead Asia.

Bro, i don't agree with the Japanese-German analogy. Asians are notoriously kinslayers just as the Imperial Japan did in WWII. However, it is not racially motivated. Yes, we should demand Japan to officially apologize for what they did to China in WWII.

Nazi Germany in the other hand was totally out of control with their Aryan fest. Not only they would racially discriminate all non-white people, but also to other white europeans whom they considered non-aryan. Hitler was a mad monster, i don't think that they would treat Chinese or Japanese as equal to his so-called "German Aryan".

Ironically, the Nazi has just slaughtered 30 million Slavs who are genetically more Aryan than Germans. It is not appropriate to quote Nazi as a counter argument.

 

[ao333]

Guys, drop this Japanese stuff. They can build supersonic anti-ship missiles comparable to what the Russians have in stock in 6 years. The difference between China and Japan is simply to great for debate. Japanese technologies have become even more sophisticated than what Germany or any other European Country has acquired in recent years. They can be superior than even the Russians if unshackled. You guys should be begging for the USN to stay in the Pacific.

 

[chauism]

Guys, drop this Japanese stuff. They can build supersonic anti-ship missiles comparable to what the Russians have in stock in 6 years. The difference between China and Japan is simply to great for debate. Japanese technologies have become even more sophisticated than what Germany or any other European Country has acquired in recent years. They can be superior than even the Russians if unshackled. You guys should be begging for the USN to stay in the Pacific.

I rather have a militarily advanced Japan rather than having USN in this part of pacific.

 

[TorontoNoctis]

Not to fear guys, the entire raison d'etre for the Japanese military is self defence. True getting nuked doesn't correlate to becoming pacifist. But a pacifist constitution, the urge not to be "hypocrites" (they want to forever blame the USA for using nukes and excessive force and certainly don't want to be blamed fo doing so themselves) and general disdain at anything military does. If you talk to some Japanese and Japanese families, the military is considered where you go if you're a failure, if you can't get into Tokyo University or any other good university. So the best and brightest are not joining the military, and there is a very anti-military culture among Japanese*. In fact, some Japanese "originalists" of the constitution say that the mere existence of the military is illegal and they can make a very good case for it.

Although they have modern equipment the military is deliberately kept in check lacking the equipment to become an "asian superpower" like strategic bombers, midair refueling, marines. So they have no force projection.

So nothing to worry about China or Chinese, and nothing to talk about

* I believe the general Japanese sentiment is that the military "failed" the Emperor and the Japanese people in WWII and should never be given another chance to do so. So, that is how Japanese are pacifist but at the same time will never apologize for their actions in WWII.

 

[yangtomous]

I hate Japan deeply in my heart .the feelings you can't know who stay a thousands miles away .We Quietly not means forgot . if you do you need to pay.they owe us millions lives and no apologizes .just NanJing thsi is only one city they kill so many people (the total number China said 300000 Japan said 200000).You need to know they invade more than a half China .how many citys ?how many my brothers and sisters they kill?
For the JAPAN NAVY DEVELOPE I don't care.and just your don't need too sensitive to the China military DEVELOP.it is a common things.

 

[somebozo]

As the Japanese economic dependency shifts from USA to China we will see an improvement of ties. However the heat between Japan and China is our equivalent of India and Pakistan.

Japanese is written in Chinese script by the way. However other than enjoying high quality "Made in Japan" goods I dont see any thing strategic behind them. Also Japanese tend to be very violent, racist and bloody people.

Let the USN do the dirty job of containing these "emperors".

 

[below_freezing]

They can build all the antiship missiles they want, just don't whine when we cruise around their islands in nuclear subs. Japan is a hypocrite nation and it is our duty to force its submission no matter how long it takes. Fortunately, due to its small area and inexperience in strategic missile technologies there is always the option of a first strike on Japan that does not give it the chance to assemble its nuclear weapons, if it possessed them.

And chauism, discipline isn't everything, though it is important. How disciplined are Americans? They're the loudest, most pig-like snobs on the face of the planet but they're top due to the leadership of their 1% elite that IS the top in the world.

 

[Indiarox]

Whenever Pakistan acquires a defensive system we are forced to hear India's incessant temper tantrums.

So what if some people call it temper tantrums or crying or by any other name(Indians call it aggressive diplomacy) if it has the desired result is achieved it has served its purpose.
Why don't you people do it too and see if it has any effect on the people selling stuff to India

 

[mike05]

They can build all the antiship missiles they want, just don't whine when we cruise around their islands in nuclear subs. Japan is a hypocrite nation and it is our duty to force its submission no matter how long it takes. Fortunately, due to its small area and inexperience in strategic missile technologies there is always the option of a first strike on Japan that does not give it the chance to assemble its nuclear weapons, if it possessed them.

Japan can easily assemble nuclear weapons at the first whiff of trouble, they already have nuclear material and are also a world leader (Read WORLD LEADER ) in technology. Also no one can say for certain how good their missile technology is (they launch freaking satellites as a norm), I suspect if they developed anything it will be kept under wraps just to give the illusion that they do not have anything. Don't forget they're thinking is similar to the Chinese in that aspect create something good and shut up about it.

And chauism, discipline isn't everything, though it is important. How disciplined are Americans? They're the loudest, most pig-like snobs on the face of the planet but they're top due to the leadership of their 1% elite that IS the top in the world.

I too agree that a world without the USN poking around would be better one, it more so because the USA's foreign policies are so short sighted and changes with each presidency that it doesn't give anyone much confidence.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

They can build all the antiship missiles they want, just don't whine when we cruise around their islands in nuclear subs. Japan is a hypocrite nation and it is our duty to force its submission no matter how long it takes. Fortunately, due to its small area and inexperience in strategic missile technologies there is always the option of a first strike on Japan that does not give it the chance to assemble its nuclear weapons, if it possessed them.

And chauism, discipline isn't everything, though it is important. How disciplined are Americans? They're the loudest, most pig-like snobs on the face of the planet but they're top due to the leadership of their 1% elite that IS the top in the world.

If your attitude reflects China then I guess Japan will be building their own military.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

China wont dare to challenge NATO.