Rising Sun doesn't like to watch the Dragon rise

[chauism]

It may be pointless to try to establish which World War Two Axis aggressor, Germany or Japan, was the more brutal to the peoples it victimised. The Germans killed six million Jews and 20 million Russians [i.e. Soviet citizens]; the Japanese slaughtered as many as 30 million Filipinos, Malays, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Indonesians and Burmese, at least 23 million of them ethnic Chinese. Both nations looted the countries they conquered on a monumental scale, though Japan plundered more, over a longer period, than the Nazis. Both conquerors enslaved millions and exploited them as forced labourers—and, in the case of the Japanese, as [forced] prostitutes for front-line troops. If you were a Nazi prisoner of war from Britain, America, Australia, New Zealand or Canada (but not Russia) you faced a 4% chance of not surviving the war; [by comparison] the death rate for Allied POWs held by the Japanese was nearly 30%.


Japan without dispute certainly committed appalling acts during that period.
But a few Japanese people i spoke to disputed the figures of the number of dead, i was told China exaggerated claims. Even when i said 'why were u trying to come to India' the japanese said to me the reason was to liberate India from the british raj, i took that with a pinch of salt though.

Actually despite what the Japanese government had in their mind for WW II, but it is true that to most of common Japanese people did have that in their mind as they hold the responsibility of liberating people in Asia from the Western colonial powers as they were the only one in Asia capable of challenge those western nations. As I mentioned before, it was Japanese took off all the signs of "Chinese and dogs are not allowed to enter" that were placed in many places by the western countries when they occupied those area in China.

 

[amit27]

Actually despite what the Japanese government had in their mind for WW II, but it is true that to most of common Japanese people did have that in their mind as they hold the responsibility of liberating people in Asia from the Western colonial powers as they were the only one in Asia capable of challenge those western nations. As I mentioned before, it was Japanese took off all the signs of "Chinese and dogs are not allowed to enter" that were place in many places by the western countries when they occupied those area in China.

UK had 'no irish no blacks no dogs' sign when entering pubs even in the 1960's

Indian freedom fighter Chandra bose was part of this so called Japan led liberation of India too.

 

[CardSharp]

Japan is the only one country in this world had suffered from nuclear attack. Militarism is not going to be very popular among its people, even though there some people from time to time will make some noise about it, but they are the minorities as every country has those. The sooner China and Korea can move beyond what happened in WW II, the sooner Japan will move towards a better directions. The unfair mistreatment and distrust towards Germany after WW I did not helped Germany becoming a more peaceful and friendly country, it actually pushed it toward the other direction. It is a lesson people in Asia should learn.

That a questionable statement. How does one establish a correlation between getting nuked and pacifism. Like I mentioned before I am all for mutual deescalation and cooperation with Japan but you may be under-estimating the barriers on the Japanese side.

Also I like to point out that anti-Japanese feelings vary by region in china. Most of the guerrilla resistance to Japan occurred near the former border with Manchuko in north china and that is where IJA implemented the "three all" policy of burn all, kill all, loot all. So you may find Northerners have stronger feelings on the issue than southerns.

 

[Nahraf]

Japan's need of a super sonic missile is very justified as Japan will depend on its Air force and Navy (to a grater extent) to protect its national integrity and this missile will add more teeth to that defense

Whenever Pakistan acquires a defensive system we are forced to hear India's incessant temper tantrums.

IN is Indo European and DR is Dravidian. Notice how they have 50%+ of Haplogroup L? while no other country has Haplo group L? Only the people living around India has Haplogroup L, it is Indian dna

Pakistan also has large Haplogroup L population. It is considered one of ancient Haplogroups of South Asia. I also belong to L haplogroup.

 

[CardSharp]

That said I think I don't think Japan will militaristic in the future. Their population is aging rapidly and its rearmament programs stems mainly out of the fear of retribution from a growing PLA with twice its yearly budget.

 

[CardSharp]

Interestingly, I took a DNA test a year back with the national genographic project. I foolishly chose to test my Y-chromosome and when test results came back after 3 month...

it basically said I was chinese....and I was out 150 bucks...




it turns out 80 something percent of chinese males/eastern asian males have the same Haplogroup O (M175) and that Mitochondrial DNA is much more telling about your ancestry if you are chinese.

 

[Nahraf]

Interestingly, I took a DNA test a year back with the national genographic project. I foolishly chose to test my Y-chromosome and when test results came back after 3 month... it basically said I was chinese....and I was out 150 bucks... it turns out 80 something percent of chinese males/eastern asian males have the same Haplogroup O (M175) and that Mitochondrial DNA is much more telling about your ancestry if you are chinese.

You have to do both Y-chromosome and mtDNA test. I did few more to check grandparents too. Your Paternal line follows father and paternal grandfather while maternal line follows your mother maternal grandmother. I did extra for my paternal grandmother and maternal grandfather too.

 

[CardSharp]

You have to do both Y-chromosome and mtDNA test. I did few more to check grandparents too. Your Paternal line follows father and paternal grandfather while maternal line follows your mother maternal grandmother. I did extra for my paternal grandmother and maternal grandfather too.

yea but you have a proper job and you're not a poor student who had to pay for it using his poker money. Some of these tests can really really add up (300 for full mt, 300 for full y-chromosome etc etc)

 

[chauism]

That a questionable statement. How does one establish a correlation between getting nuked and pacifism. Like I mentioned before I am all for mutual deescalation and cooperation with Japan but you may be under-estimating the barriers on the Japanese side.

Also I like to point out that anti-Japanese feelings vary by region in china. Most of the guerrilla resistance to Japan occurred near the former border with Manchuko in north china and that is where IJA implemented the "three all" policy of burn all, kill all, loot all. So you may find Northerners have stronger feelings on the issue than southerns.

But with all those Hawkish statement others have cited from Japanese sources. You have to consider that many times in the history when someone in the parliament tried to normalize its military force, it was always met with public outrage, and the amendment were defeated in the parliament every time. Even in its constitution it states that Japan is not allowed to declare war on anyone. With so many Chinese want to erase Japan from the face of earth, in the future I don't see how Japan will not change its attitude towards pacifism. If it does, it will not be Japanese's fault alone.

 

[chauism]

I won't deny this, this might be partly the reason.

Heres a quote from one of the former Japanese prime ministers

The Japanese have always viewed the chinese as sub human cockroaches.

Education: Nakasone's World-Class Blunder - TIME

"So high is the level of education in our country that Japan's is an intelligent society. Our average score is much higher than those of countries like the U.S. There are many blacks, Puerto Ricans and Mexicans in America. In consequence the average score over there is exceedingly low."

At first few people in Japan's remarkably closed and monolithic society, 98% of which is native born and historically chauvinistic, picked up on the horrific implications in the remark.

You are taking out of its context. He was emphasizing Japan's success in its education system , which by the way it is the best in the Asia, and without the influence of immigrants. And guess what? Statistically he is right in his statement.

 

[chauism]

Interestingly, I took a DNA test a year back with the national genographic project. I foolishly chose to test my Y-chromosome and when test results came back after 3 month...

it basically said I was chinese....and I was out 150 bucks...




it turns out 80 something percent of chinese males/eastern asian males have the same Haplogroup O (M175) and that Mitochondrial DNA is much more telling about your ancestry if you are chinese.

Well, that was 150 Canadian dollars well spent.
Couldn't you do that just by asking your parents or any relatives?

Sorry, but it is kind of funny.

 

[CardSharp]

You are taking out of its context. He was emphasizing Japan's success in its education system , which by the way it is the best in the Asia, and without the influence of immigrants. And guess what? Statistically he is right in his statement.

I'm not ok with this, whatever the context, it is still blatantly racist. Whatever Japan's own immigration policy is, is their own business but they really have no place to pass judgement on how other countries manage their immigration policy in this way.

 

[CardSharp]

Well, that was 150 Canadian dollars well spent.
Couldn't you do that just by asking your parents or any relatives?

Sorry, but it is kind of funny.

yeah I wanted to lighten the tone on this race discussion by relating something humorous.

I did feel kind stupid after paying for it, waiting for the kit to arrive, doing the DNA collection with a swab, mailed it back, waiting for 3 month and finding out "surprise! you're chinese!"

 

[Nahraf]

yea but you have a proper job and you're not a poor student who had to pay for it using his poker money. Some of these tests can really really add up (300 for full mt, 300 for full y-chromosome etc etc)

The best way is to get a sample from your parents and grand parents and send them to DNA test labs and then order cheapest test. They keep the sample in their storage facility and later you can upgrade the tests. You have to budget your money. If your grandparents are old or sick then you have time constraints since you cannot get a sample from them after they die.

 

[Speeder 2]

First off, Chauism and Chinaowneverthing, will you two pls remove the picture in your posts? It is downright offensive to the dead and to us readers !!!

Thank you.



2. some here are right to point out that Japan's new generation has barely anything to do with WWII. Without telling me his/her nationality, many young Japanese I know could well be mistaken as Chinese or Korean. The three eastern Asain countries should make friends.



3. The notion that Japanese is superior, peddled by some of its ultra right wingers and repeated by some media and posters, is neither the representative of what common Japanese think nor as per DNA reality. Accroding to NDA study of Japanese ( i posted this before in another thread about new Japanese PM several months ago) conducted by a Japanese reaseach institute:

More than 25% , the largest share, of Japanese Mitochondrial DNA is related to Han Chinese, less than 24% of which is related to Korean, the rest smaller percentages are related to many diverse indigenous tribes of many places. All in all, Japanese is a mixed-race, with largest dominant DNA being Han Chinese indeed. Where is that "racial" supeority crap?



4. The notion that many modern Chinese words come from Japan ( listed by Chauism) is as valid as most "Japanese Characters" originally came from Chinese anyway. What's the point?



5. In spite of the temporal fact that Japan is way ahead in general techonogies and human development Index compared with China and Korea due to its > 100 years headstart, personally I believe that China can more or less catch up, on an individual level, within 2 generations for most of its areas if move along the right direction.



6. Japanese-German analogy is inadequate:

During WWII, Germans have almost NEVER racially descriminated other non-German white Europeans, at least not to fellow French and Brits, to the same extent that Japanese did to Chinese and Koreans.

How ironic is that when both Hitler and Hermann Göring ( the "supposed" superior Aryan race) who treated both Chinese and Japanese as equals to Germans ( refer to Hitler's very own remarks) , but trusted Chinese more than Japanese as their allies in the first part of WWII?

Post WWII, Germans, both its govts and civilians, did (and have been doing so) a heck of jobs in apologising to fellow Europeans, from their hearts, by words and in deeds. Japanese govts however, largely didn't.


So here is the thick line:

Until Japan does it to China and Korea, and from the heart, it would have no qualification what-so-ever to lead Asia.