Revolution for Pakistan

[Vanamali]

Day by day Pakistan’s situation is getting worse. With TLP marching to Islamabad, rise in TTP attacks, political instability, civilian government vs establishment, rising inflation, worsening economy and, rupee falling in value the future for Pakistan doesn’t look so bright. The current system has failed the people. No political party is free from corruption and there’s no Justice in Pakistan. Any group turns up and holds the whole country hostage as TLP is doing that right now. If that wasn’t enough, Imran khan and ghq were just feuding over who becomes isi chief. Additionally, almost everyday threats from pdm to send the government home and rising inflation.
Pakistan needs a revolution a PEACEFUL revolution. We need a new system in place! A system that can ensure justice for the poor. A system that can deal with these corrupt elites ruining and looting Pakistan. A peaceful revolution now will save Pakistan from a bloody revolution in the future. With all the troubles we have in Pakistan right now more and more people will be pushed to support a revolution and it will lead to violence.
Parliament should be dissolved and a intern government set up for 90 days. In the meantime we decide what type of new system we want in Pakistan since the existing system failed us. IMO we need a Islamic presidential system. Pakistan was created on the name of Islam not nationalism or secularism. If we stray away from Islam and act secular or nationalistic than we’ll never be successful. We need a system where we have powerful leaders who make good decisions for the public and where there’s Justice for all.


PAKISTAN NEEDS A PEACEFUL ISLAMIC REVOLUTION!

Just change your DP and your wet dreams... Your country will prosper when it leaves idea of conquering India...

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Day by day Pakistan’s situation is getting worse. With TLP marching to Islamabad, rise in TTP attacks, political instability, civilian government vs establishment, rising inflation, worsening economy and, rupee falling in value the future for Pakistan doesn’t look so bright. The current system has failed the people. No political party is free from corruption and there’s no Justice in Pakistan. Any group turns up and holds the whole country hostage as TLP is doing that right now. If that wasn’t enough, Imran khan and ghq were just feuding over who becomes isi chief. Additionally, almost everyday threats from pdm to send the government home and rising inflation.
Pakistan needs a revolution a PEACEFUL revolution. We need a new system in place! A system that can ensure justice for the poor. A system that can deal with these corrupt elites ruining and looting Pakistan. A peaceful revolution now will save Pakistan from a bloody revolution in the future. With all the troubles we have in Pakistan right now more and more people will be pushed to support a revolution and it will lead to violence.
Parliament should be dissolved and a intern government set up for 90 days. In the meantime we decide what type of new system we want in Pakistan since the existing system failed us. IMO we need a Islamic presidential system. Pakistan was created on the name of Islam not nationalism or secularism. If we stray away from Islam and act secular or nationalistic than we’ll never be successful. We need a system where we have powerful leaders who make good decisions for the public and where there’s Justice for all.


PAKISTAN NEEDS A PEACEFUL ISLAMIC REVOLUTION!

You want a revolution but didn't say who will be leading that revolution.

All Pakistan needs is more money either from outside or continue to fine-tune the economic structure/system which is progressing at sluggish pace for the past 74-years.

I don't see any altertives unless some super advance technology comes about that's enabled to make choices for the country or some desperately needed resource is discovered in Pakistan.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Why do islamists hate pakistani nationalism so much?

All Islamists hate all nationalisms. The fact is nationalism and Islamism are entirely opposites of each other. Left/right. Cold/hot. High/low. The two cannot reconcile which is something the Turks were first to grapple. Rest of us did not mostly because we all were enjoying slavery under colonialsm. The Turks were one of the few Muslims who still were free men and after winning against the European attempt to enslave the Ataturk instituted his secular reeforms central to which was the worship of the Turkish state. For nearly 100 years generations of Turks have been rought up conditioned in the worship of the secular republic of Turkey. This is visibly apparent in the sea of red Turkish flags you will see in the country. Also Turks are intensely patriotic. Even today under Erdogan the Turkish republic remains worshipped.

In Pakistan our leaders thought it was a smart idea to build nationalism around Islam. This never was going to work. This would be like you today declaring you own air and then try to clasp it as yours. Much as try you will never be able to own or take possession of air. It is everywhere and canot be taken into ownership by anybody. It was there before you came, it will be there after you go and it is everywhere.

Islam is spread over the entire globe and found in every corner of this earth. There are 40 Muslim countries over three continents. How can you shoehorn such a religion into a small patch of geography called Paklistan?

The fact that Islam is universal means any event related to Islam across the world will end up biting the backsides of Pakistan. The best example is the recent killing of a French teacher by a Chechen in Paris.

How on earth would such a remote event in Paris end up tearing Pakistan up? Pakistani's have died. The government is in crisis. Rangers have been mobilized. This is perverse. It tells you how weak and unstable Pakistan is. Anybody can do something in the furthest corner of the world and Pakistan starts burning. No number of nuclear missiles, tanks, jets will aware give protection against such madness. Pakistan does not need enemies when it has itself as the enemy.

Think about this. Why is Istanbul, Jeddah, Mecca, Medina, Dubai, Cairo etc not burning? Are TLP the only guardians of Islam? The reason is when a country places Islam as it's state religion you invited every Muslim to come along and shove his idea of Islam up your nose.

Evereybody becomes a spokesman for Allah. And the louder they are they will get heard. Welcome TLP. Since religion draws emotive response you ses the zealous crowds ready to die to prove their love by burning Pakistan down.

You want a revolution but didn't say who will be leading that revolution.

Muslims. Those who place love of prophet [pbuh] above all other worldly considerations and are prepared to die in defence of the prophet [pbuh].

Muslims. Those who place love of prophet [pbuh] above all other worldly considerations and are prepared to die in defence of the prophet [pbuh].

By which definition bizzarely TLP almost fit.

 

[R Wing]

Because there's no 'Pakistani nationalism' anywhere. In Pakistan, everyone is literally out for themselves. It's either 'my family vs your family' or 'my tribe vs your tribe' or 'my province vs your province' etc. Islamists can at least see there's a common link between all of these groups (i.e. Islam) so they're running with that.

Precisely.

There is no conscious, deliberate, patient building of a national identity and, just as importantly (if not more), national character.

Statecraft needs to be augmented with 'soulcraft.' Successive governments have failed to build this because they all have short-term, myopic visions and nobody at GHQ or PMO has the visionary chops to handle day-to-day firefighting/crisis management WITH long-term reform, institutional innovation, etc.

Anybody who thinks that Pakistan is improving and it just "takes time" is living in Lala Land. Wake up!

You want a revolution but didn't say who will be leading that revolution.

All Pakistan needs is more money either from outside or continue to fine-tune the economic structure/system which is progressing at sluggish pace for the past 74-years.

I don't see any altertives unless some super advance technology comes about that's enabled to make choices for the country or some desperately needed resource is discovered in Pakistan.

Revolutions start in the most unexpected ways.

Pakistan needs a governing elite consisting of people like some of the more sophisticated ones on this forum.

Anybody who thinks this constitutional system can deliver good governance in a developing country is fooling themselves. Ruthless reform and total transformation of state institutions, with the army sticking to its professional duties, and the utter destruction (firing squad) of ALL corrupt people regardless of sluggish NAB cases. We need a clean slate --- and then we need to get the right people into government.

Harvard graduates regularly enter the civ service/intel community, etc., in the US --- the same goes for Oxford grads in the States. That's where long-term, dominant strategies come from. Sure, we have a few NUST and LUMS toppers here and there entering but they're the exceptions.

Have you seen your government service exams? They don't even test aptitude --- they just test rot memorization and other irrelevant things. If these people were made to take the GRE (required for graduate admissions in the US), they would be, across the board, in the lowest quartile. The ISI civilian exam (MOD Assistant Director) is an even bigger joke --- you can find some past papers online and weep.

The system is not structured to attract and retain talent. A government is only as effective as its people. It's a losing war without radical reform (probably only through revolution.)

 

[R Wing]

Just change your DP and your wet dreams... Your country will prosper when it leaves idea of conquering India...

Please grow up.

Pakistan has no delusions about conquering India. Pakistani politicians don't threaten India day and night; Indian ones do. Pakistani elections aren't won on anti-India slogans (nobody cares); yet in Indian elections they are extremely common.

The Army is a largely defensive force and not designed to 'take over' India, given India's size. The obsession is the other way around, but of course brainwashed BJP retards can't see that. Please don't hijack this thread, thanks.

You think our munafiq mullahs are not corrupt? You do realise our new "leaders" will be drawn from the same population of corrupt asshats? And you think the incompetent leaders will be able to decide on a new form of government?

They may be the worst --- because they are the most hypocritical. A typical corrupt politician is not pretending to be the propagator and defender of virtue and Islamic values.

God save us from jaahil maulvis.

 

[Khan_patriot]

Revolutions are a farce, if Pakistanis do decide for it, itll be the end of the federation and will split along ethno-linguistic lines. All those wannabe Guerras need to look at the Arab spring and learn their lesson. We dont have the stomach for cities razed to the ground, militias running around and foreign powers sponsoring factions of their choosing. This is just a wannabe teenage leftist revolutionary wet dream.

 

[Maula Jatt]

Revolutions are a farce, if Pakistanis do decide for it, itll be the end of the federation and will split along ethno-linguistic lines. All those wannabe Guerras need to look at the Arab spring and learn their lesson. We dont have the stomach for cities razed to the ground, militias running around and foreign powers sponsoring factions of their choosing. This is just a wannabe teenage leftist revolutionary wet dream.

Op is an islamist

 

[Khan_patriot]

Op is an islamist

Thats even worse

 

[R Wing]

Yeah, and even if Pak wasn't religious at all, the same generals and parties will use some other card.

It's how corrupt people work.

In the West, when there's a sniff of suspicion against minorities, we see parties take advantage of it (e.g. Trump).

It's called pragmatism. The issue is, why are people letting the corrupt off the hook? Why keep blaming other things?

You have now arrived at a very interesting aspect of our psyche.

I believe generations of colonialism has created a very strange relationship between the common citizen and institutions of power in our country. Successive poor performances by civilian governments has resulted in an unhealthy and detrimental concentration of power in one seat (COAS) --- possibly a necessary balancing act during times of overwhelmingly corrupt civilian rule, but it becomes problematic when/if a better civilian setup comes who wants to reform everything, including the Armed Forces and IC.

Any leader who thinks this system can deliver (a broken car with a better driver) is delusional and indulging in utopian fantasies. Painful, transformative, structural reform is the only way. The system is broken. Fix the system. Don't try and fix the country with a broken system.

Revolutions are a farce, if Pakistanis do decide for it, itll be the end of the federation and will split along ethno-linguistic lines. All those wannabe Guerras need to look at the Arab spring and learn their lesson. We dont have the stomach for cities razed to the ground, militias running around and foreign powers sponsoring factions of their choosing. This is just a wannabe teenage leftist revolutionary wet dream.

I agree.

But it's also my dream, and I am the exact opposite of a teenage leftist.

Except that I don't pretend it'll be some kind of mass uprising of the common man; in fact, that would be terrifying and objectively horrible for the country, just as you've pointed out.

It has to come through a visionary and popular civilian leader who delivers so exceptionally well and then imposes a sort of presidential or emergency system and eventually cuts the COAS position down to size (no politics/domestic power) and indulges in ruthless, violent accountability. Unrealistic? Sure. But all revolutions are!

 

[Vanamali]

Please grow up.

Pakistan has no delusions about conquering India. Pakistani politicians don't threaten India day and night; Indian ones do. Pakistani elections aren't won on anti-India slogans (nobody cares); yet in Indian elections they are extremely common.

The Army is a largely defensive force and not designed to 'take over' India, given India's size. The obsession is the other way around, but of course brainwashed BJP retards can't see that. Please don't hijack this thread, thanks.


They may be the worst --- because they are the most hypocritical. A typical corrupt politician is not pretending to be the propagator and defender of virtue and Islamic values.

God save us from jaahil maulvis.

Before asking me to grow up check up the DP of OP.

 

[SkyWolf]

I love these morons who say. We need more of the same but with more intensity to turn things around.

 

[American Pakistani]

Pakistan needs to promote Pakistani nationalism. Islam or religion should be private and personal choice.

Useless 220 millions instead of making their lives useful by exporting, innovating or earning,are busy in death and destruction. Shameless to say the least.

 

[Maula Jatt]

Before asking me to grow up check up the DP of OP.

So?
Why are you getting your panties in a twist over some rouge delusions?
And somehow using it as a way to paint the picture of ms Pakistani political thought?

 

[R Wing]

Before asking me to grow up check up the DP of OP.

Yes, the OP seems to have such fantasies and chose that DP for an online defense forum. But in his revolution, maybe his focus would be to first strengthen internal security and improve development indicators...?

So?
Why are you getting your panties in a twist over some rouge delusions?
And somehow using it as a way to paint the picture of ms Pakistani political thought?

Exactly.

 

[American Pakistani]

Creation of Pakistan was also a use of religious card for political purposes

Nonsense. It was to invite Muslims facing terrorism by Indians. All religious fanatics were against it.