Religious identity of Pakistanis stronger than other peoples

[Silverblaze]

Islam prohibits Ethnic Nationalism (Nationalism derived from your ethnicity) - this is also refereed to as "Tribalism" in the Hadith.

Religious nationalism is completely permitted; it's the reason why Pakistan isnt broken into a dozen smaller countries.

So, Pakistani nationalism and religious nationalism are same? If this is the case, Pakistan should be opened to every muslim with no travel documents. This cannot happen. This was the reason why some so called ulemas objected to Pakistan's creation as they said, Islam cannot be confined to a geographical territory.

Sir, your problem is that Pakistan's founding fathers had completely a different idea of islam in Pakistan. Your ultimate aim is to establish a theocratic state (this is the truth). Allama Iqbal and Quaid said, NO to theocracy.

 

[Nalini]

If you call God & he comes to save you, when your family life & house is at stake, then I can accept God & religion should come first.

If Pakistan's Islam is greater than nationalism, then why none of the Muslim countries respect you or your approach & deeds. Why every country whom you called brother nation like Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, UAE treat Pakistanis worse than trash even worse than Indians. Why could Bangladesh not stay together if Islam should be considered higher than nationality.

This is a raw proof, if you put your religious interest higher than national interest it will only lead to your destruction. Jordan, Egypt & Saudi fought war with Israel, but today they have peace treaty. The reason is national interest. Why Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi, UAE all are getting closer to India at the cost of Pakistan know it's a Hindu majority country.

If religion is more powerful, Muslim countries should have been able to defeat Israel being such a small country surrounded by so many Muslim countries. Israel was attacked by 6-7 countries in 1948 & 1967. The war of 1967 ended in 6 days. Israel defended it's country even though they were attacked from all sides. The casualty of Arabs were 1:20.

If Islam was greater the God should have come to protect its followers. Where was he when such a small country brought humiliation to the whole of Middle East. Why most Muslim countries is always in blood & violence. This is what will happen if you are too obsessed with religion. Islam is the only religion who are too sensitive to religion. That's why world wide Muslims are ill treated.

I am not trying to offend Muslims, but it's time Muslims wake up & treat religion just as a belief to be practiced at home. Once Muslims become tolerable to critics & stop reacting to it, It will be treated as a normal religion. And it's time like Jordan, Egypt, Saudi have ties with Israel to have national interest first & try to build relation with India putting aside all your Islamic obsession. This will bring peace in the entire region. And both Hindus & Muslims can live like any other countries. The biggest regret is we lived in one house one day & we have the same blood line. It's like fighting with your brothers & family.

So please NATIONAL INTEREST should be the first important factor in relationship between countries & religion should be the last.

 

[Adecypher]

IMHO, majority of the Pakistanis see these two identities as a unification factor complementing each other rather acting as a dividing force.

 

[Nalini]

Time will tell what will happen to Balochistan, Sindh, Karachi & your so called Azad Kashmir. Let's see how your religion will hold you together. That time you will all shed your religion & even the country. You will hide your religion or convert for better life to move to other countries. It's already happening. Many Pakistanis tell they are Indians abroad to hide the shame of being a Pakistani & for the fear of being a Muslim.

Many Pakistanis want foreign & worse Indian citizenship. Nobody wants Pakistani Citizenship the reason is religion is held high not nationality.

Relation & Trade brings your peace & prosperity not religion.

 

[Ghazwa e Hind]

Alhamdulilah! Our Great leader Quaid e Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah also gave us this slogan. Unity, Faith, Discipline.

 

[barbarosa]

If you call God & he comes to save you, when your family life & house is at stake, then I can accept God & religion should come first.

If Pakistan's Islam is greater than nationalism, then why none of the Muslim countries respect you or your approach & deeds. Why every country whom you called brother nation like Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, UAE treat Pakistanis worse than trash even worse than Indians. Why could Bangladesh not stay together if Islam should be considered higher than nationality.

This is a raw proof, if you put your religious interest higher than national interest it will only lead to your destruction. Jordan, Egypt & Saudi fought war with Israel, but today they have peace treaty. The reason is national interest.

If religion is more powerful, Muslim countries should have been able to defeat Israel being such a small country surrounded by so many Muslim countries. Israel was attacked by 6-7 countries in 1948 & 1967. The war of 1967 ended in 6 days. Israel defended it's country even though they were attacked from all sides. The casualty of Arabs were 1:20.

If Islam was greater the God should have come to protect its followers. Where was he. Why most Muslim countries is always in blood & violence. This is what will happen if you are too obsessed with religion. Islam is the only religion who are too sensitive to religion. That's why world wide Muslims are ill treated.

I am not trying to offend Muslims, but it's time Muslims wake up & treat religion just as a belief to be practiced at home. Once Muslims become tolerable to critics & stop reacting to it, It will be treated as a normal religion. And it's time like Jordan, Egypt, Saudi have ties with Israel to have national interest first & try to build relation with India putting aside all your Islamic obsession. This will bring peace in the entire region. And both Hindus & Muslims can live like any other countries. The biggest regret is we lived in one house one day & we have the same blood line. It's like fighting with your brothers & family.

So please NATIONAL INTEREST should be the first important factor in relationship between countries & religion should be the last.

Islam has no boundary because Islam is not a country.
Israel was not fighting with several Muslim countries, USA and Europe were fighting their war because they decided to establish Israel country,
In the case of two neighbors Muslims countries such as Iran and Pakistan there would be come Nationalism for issues between the two Muslim neighbor countries.
All the Muslims of the hole world are Islamic brothers.

 

[Nalini]

Islam has no boundary because Islam is not a country.
Israel was not fighting with several Muslim countries, USA and Europe were fighting their war because they decided to establish Israel country,
In the case of two neighbors Muslims countries such as Iran and Pakistan there would be come Nationalism for issues between the two Muslim neighbor countries.
All the Muslims of the hole world are Islamic brothers.

Ha Ha Ha. That's the biggest joke. Look at the Muslim countries how peacefully & lovingly they co-exist with their brothers.

Pakistan is also surrounded by brothers that's why it's so peaceful. Why your Zarb be Azab if they are brothers. Why don't you tell your Muslim Taliban, Haqqani, ISIS, Hezbollah, Boko Haram, etc terrorists not to kill their brothers.

99% of terrorists are Muslims & the maximum killed in terror attacks are muslims.

 

[barbarosa]

Ha Ha Ha. That's the biggest joke. Look at the Muslim countries how peacefully & lovingly they co-exist with their brothers.

Pakistan is also surrounded by brothers that's why it's so peaceful. Why your Zarb be Azab if they are brothers. Why don't you tell your Muslim Taliban, Haqqani, ISIS, Hezbollah, Boko Haram terrorists not to kill their brothers

Why Indian man rape Indian girl? Are they both not one Nation,one country ,one religion?

 

[Ali Sinan]

Deen is a personal matter

In Islam deen or religion is not a separate even not personal matter.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Our Ideology is Islam and Our identity is Pakistan.
Being a Muslim and being a Pakistani are opposite sides of same coin................
Our Foundation stands on Islam, we are the only nation in World which was created on name of Islam thus there is no power which can undo it. Interesting times ahead ....................

The universal opposition of virtually every significant religious group in Undivided India, indeed the entire Muslim religious establishment to Jinnah`s Pakistan movement and the Muslim League cannot be reconciled with any idea of religious origins of Pakistan ...


Pakistan was being created in the name of Islam but the entire Muslim religious establishment was against it. ?

The Communist Party of India-- the most secular and non communal institution in South Asian polity, on the other hand, was wholeheartedly supporting the ML and the Pakistan movement during 40s.


Will you please explain this "Contradiction" ?

 

[Nalini]

Why Indian man rape Indian girl? Are they both not one Nation,one country ,one religion?

Talk on topic. Dont deviate.

The same reason why Pakistani men rape Pakistani woman. Only addition is Pakistani men will take a Hindu or a Christian girl for granted, since they think Muslims are higher & the others are slaves so they can be raped & it's not a crime & they are not even convicted. Many rapes in Pakistan & Islamic countries go un-reported

At least in India, it's covered on media & justice is done.

 

[barbarosa]

Ha Ha Ha. That's the biggest joke. Look at the Muslim countries how peacefully & lovingly they co-exist with their brothers.

Pakistan is also surrounded by brothers that's why it's so peaceful. Why your Zarb be Azab if they are brothers. Why don't you tell your Muslim Taliban, Haqqani, ISIS, Hezbollah, Boko Haram, etc terrorists not to kill their brothers.

99% of terrorists are Muslims & the maximum killed in terror attacks are muslims.

The Hindus are afraid of death while the Muslims embraced to death.

 

[M. Sarmad]

These opinion polls are testament to the commitment of the Pakistani people to our deen. Our rejection of nationalism and secularism being stronger than many other Muslim peoples is no mere coincidence but is a barkat of our ulema (Pakistan is said to have the largest number of ulema in the world) from Allah and the faiz of the one million shaheeds who gave their lives for Pakistan's creation in 1947.

Thoughts?

The whole idea of "Muslim Nationalism in South Asia" (developed by Sir Syed and the Aligarians), which ultimately led to the creation of Pakistan, was inspired by the political theories of John Locke, Milton and Thomas Paine .... The creation of Pakistan was indeed the culmination of a process that derived all of its sustenance from this idea/theory ..


Bitterly opposed to this idea were people like Jamaluddin Afghani and Maududi .. Afghani severely criticized Sir Syed for the rejection of the idea of Pan-Islamism by the latter, and Mullah Maududidescribed the idea of Muslim Nationalism as unlikely as a ”chaste prostitute” ... (Abul Ala Maudoodi, Mussalman Aur Maujooda Syasi Kashmakash, quoted in K. K.Aziz, The Making of Pakistan, p. 148.)




Afghani was in India from 1879 to 1883, detained in Hyderabad for his political activities against the British. He was approached by the so called Ulama to give a fatwa declaring Sir Syed a heretic. Afghani’s fatwa condemned Sir Syed as a collaborator, who threw off his religion, converted to Christianity, and claimed that all the prophets were Necharis and did not believe in God (The Fatwa was published first in Persian in 1881 in Hyderabad, then in Urdu in 1884 in Calcutta, and in Arabic in 1885 from Beirut).




Mr. Intizar Hussain, recognized as a living-legend in Pakistan, referring to these ideological differences, commented:


“It dawned on me that the tussle between nationalists coming out with the slogan ‘Pakistan first’ and the Islamic extremists demanding Pakistan’s solidarity with the Taliban in Afghanistan had behind a history dating back to Sir Syed’s time”.(Dawn News, 4 Nov 2001)



We chose Afghani and Maududi over Sir Syed and Jinnah .. In Pakistan, Jinnah and Sir Syed are held in high regard, but their ideological opponents (i.e, Afghani and Maududi) are followed by the vast majority of Pakistanis ... This "contradiction" has resulted from the state-sponsored religious-chauvinistic indoctrination via distortion ..... ...

 

[Spring Onion]

In Islam deen or religion is not a separate even not personal matter.

Indeed but we are not living in Islamic era. We are living in a geographical realities where if tomorrow Afghanistan along with Iran and India attacks you then you will not be upholding any brotherhood but you own national identity and fight back.

 

[barbarosa]

Talk on topic. Dont deviate.

The same reason why Pakistani men rape Pakistani woman. Only addition is Pakistani men will take a Hindu or a Christian girl for granted, since they think Muslims are higher & the others are slaves so they can be raped & it's not a crime & they are not even convicted. Many rapes in Pakistan & Islamic countries go un-reported

At least in India, it's covered on media & justice is done.

Now you become to the track ( crime ) Crime can be every where occur even in USA or European countries.
All these Muslim groups which you mentioned in your post are criminal, Why you blame to Islam?