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Rebuilding Pakistan Navy Aviation.

In my opinion:

8 OHP's
4 F22P's
4 Chinese F54
20 Fast Missile Attack Crafts (Most probably Turkish with Harpoons)
3 Fleet Replenishment Ships
8 Mine Hunters

The Type 21's can be retired in tranches of three once the first three OHP are delivered and assimilated in to the fleet.

3 A 90B Subs All retorfitted with MESMA
3 Further A90B all with MESMA (To be built in Pakistan while we wait for "Things" to happen) This is easier said than done -- lots of negotiations -- it would be wiser to peg down the Marlin deal now.
2 A70's with sensor upgrades -- relegated to inshore duties with requirment for shallower divinig depths.

The Marlin deal needs to be pegged down quickly. There is a serious gap in our undersea capability and one does not see the light at the end of the tunnel at this point in time.


I think you mean the planned "Atmaca" ASHM with turkish Harpoon, that's right ?

The Development of "Atmaca" startet in 2008 and the of Development of the Missile need a Time of seven Years. Atmaca would become available in 2015, for Export probably later.

You mentioned 4 chinese Type-54 Destroyer, as far I know they are equippt with some russian Subsystems. It is likely possible that Russia deny the delivery of these Subsystems to Pakistan in Favor to one of it's most important Arms Customer India.
 
60 fighter jets into three squadrons
4 to 5 AWACS
4 refulers
15-20 Anti sub helicopters
4-8 destroyers
16-20 frigates
20 subs
20 FAS
6-8 mine hunters
6 SAR helicopters
submarines must be equpied with cruise missiles becasue we hav to fight with larger enemy and we hav to defend our self agianst too many and heavy odds
 
PN should get a sqdn of JF-17s as dedicated fighters and JH-7As as their Antiship strike fighters with secondary AA role.
 
I think you mean the planned "Atmaca" ASHM with turkish Harpoon, that's right ?

The Development of "Atmaca" startet in 2008 and the of Development of the Missile need a Time of seven Years. Atmaca would become available in 2015, for Export probably later.

You mentioned 4 chinese Type-54 Destroyer, as far I know they are equippt with some russian Subsystems. It is likely possible that Russia deny the delivery of these Subsystems to Pakistan in Favor to one of it's most important Arms Customer India.


PN, at this point in time, has a number of Harpoon II's and launchers in their inventory and would want to make use of them. It would be a good idea to induct MRTP -33 like platforms and equip them with these missiles for inshore littoral defense.


Furthermore, PN is also investing in training simulators for these missiles and would want to use them for a while.

This would basically mean integration of a "Known" weapon system with cost effective surface platform. The only concern would be AAW suite on these platforms.

As a far as the Russian systems are concerned on the Type 54, I agree with your assessment -- it could cause unnecessary delays and in end the we might not receive optimal weapons suite because of this very reason.

I would rather see induction of Frigates with strong AAW capabilities for fleet defense.

BTW, very much impressed by Turkish Defence Products!! :tup:
 
@Aamir Hussain

PN, at this point in time, has a number of Harpoon II's and launchers in their inventory and would want to make use of them. It would be a good idea to induct MRTP -33 like platforms and equip them with these missiles for inshore littoral defense.

PN has already recieved 2 Onuk MRTP-33 PNS Karrar and PNS Zarrar, both entered in 2008 in Service. PN have a Requirement for 8 MRTP-33 from Turkey. In last Time I did not hear anything about the remaining 6 Vessels. Sometimes I read Rumors that PN Shows interest to more greater and Advanced MRTP Platforms like MRTP-40 or 44 which are in the Development Phase, there are also Rumors that PN have shown inerest on YTKB-400 ASW Harbor Patrol Boats.


As a far as the Russian systems are concerned on the Type 54, I agree with your assessment -- it could cause unnecessary delays and in end the we might not receive optimal weapons suite because of this very reason.

I would rather see induction of Frigates with strong AAW capabilities for fleet defense.

BTW, very much impressed by Turkish Defence Products!!

At first Perry FFG come in to my Mind, this Frigate provide limited Area Air Defence Capabillity with it's SM-1 Missiles. When the MK-13 Launcher get removed the Integration of MK-41 Launcher with ESSM is also possible, 4 of 8 TN Perry get equippt with MK-41 Launcher and ESSM Capabillity under GENESIS Upgrade. Perry can be equippt with an 8 Cell VLS Launcher and 32 ESSM AD - Missiles. But this need the Permission of Uncle Sam.:tdown:

MILGEM is not a Frigate, but PN have allready shown interest on MILGEM. When MILGEM get egquippt with MK-41 and ESSM, the Corvette could also provide limited AAW Capabillity. If PN decide to induct MILGEM it will be something different than MILGEM in TN Configuration and probably have more enhanced AD Capabillity.

I must also mentoin that Aselsan - Roketsan Team is in Progress to Develop short and medium Range AD Missiles. The Short - Range Missiles should have a Range up to 12 km and the Medium - Range up to 25 km, the Integration on Naval Platforms could be possible like the VL launched french MICA which are deployed on Naval Platforms.

 
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would like to know will PN have its own fighter craft in huge numbers
 
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The blue color camo in pak marines uniform does not look very professional, neither it looks very marine sorry but it looks stupid. they should make digital pattern based on different shades of sand color and touch of light gray


This is just an analysis,of what PN has and will aquire in the next 4 years through various deals already in place. This makes up to 70% of the inventory. The remaining 30% is just a further analysis of what PN should aquire/produce or add to their inventory. We can do better but I guess this is initial minimum requirement. for navy, marines and the coastguards. plus we need some new docks and modern ship building facilities

PAKISTAN NAVY By Dec 2014

8 OHP class
4 F22P
3 Type 54 or meko frigates.
1 melgiam corvette.
7 Mine hunters Current 4
20 missile boats. Visby class, Göteborg class, Hamina class, Houbei class,Gepard class.
(current 12)
10 MRTB mix of MRTB 33 and/or YTKB-400 or YTKB 44, (current 4, required 10)
12 Submarine mix of agosta 70/ 90b, marlins, Yuan class, (current 5 required 12)
12 Auxiliary ships (current 8)
3 Training vassals (current 1)
6 Hovercraft (current4)
25 patrol boat (current 17) mix of boats like armadale class, kingston class
Astral APB 48, APB47Illiria class, combat boat 90. half of these should be transfered to coastguard

PN AVIATION

(This is including what we already have)

60 Mirages/jf17, j10 even J11 (current 12+)
10 Eurocopter NH-90NFH, phasing out Sea Kings transport, search/rescue (current 6.
8 Eurocopter EC-130B4 naval helicopter phasing out 8 Alouette III .
15 Lockheed P-3C Orion (Current 4) 11 to be inducted
3 Breguet Atlantique I Maritime Surveillance, transfer to coastguards while inducting more P-3C Orion.
6 Harbin Z-9 (current 6)
8 helicopters (kitted with the ships inducted in PN Mix of Harbin Z-9 and or NH90 or sea hawks.

PN AVIATION BASE

Pakistan Navy also need it own base to run its own and coast guard operations. Either Masroor base be extended and a naval aviation wing be founded or a new base should be developed somewhere pass hub or any area pass steel mill which ever is more strategically better for our defence. Or Base Faisal can be transfered to the navy.

COAST GUARDS

Current plus future induction

1 Destroyer (Current 1)
5 Corvette (current 4)
8 Petrol Boats(Current3) Astral patrol APB57, Armadale class, Kingston Class,
illiria class (require 5 more
8 Small boats. Astral patrol APB38, 30 , gulf crafts ( current ?)
4 Sea kings. surveillance/ transport/ rescue ( current ?)
3 bells 412 surveillance and rescue(current ?)
4 Breguet Atlantique. phasing out current 4 Britten-Norman Defender


SSGN

Their number should be increased from 1000 to 2000+. They should have at least 10 + transport helicopters, plus boats and heavy vehicles in their inventory.

PAK MARINES

Currently they are 2000 strong in the PK marines. They need to be increased to maintain at least 20000 men in next 5 years. They should par the same level as the french foreign legion or UK marines. PK marines should be given special training on the same training methods as the SSGN emphasising on boarding of vessels during combat, capturing ships, raiding ashore in support of the naval objectives. campaign ashore in support of the military objective, amphibious day and night assault. counter-improvision explosive device techniques, convoy operations, combat formations, fireteam assaults, patrolling, MOUT, reporting military intelligence, land navigation, survival skills.

They need to be provided with better equipments rather then the old G3, something like type 81, type 101 or AUG, with granade launcher and dot scopes, night vision, snipers rifles, FN Minimi. With other complimenting equipments like helicopters, artilary, armour vehicles and amphibious assault boats. Ofcourse it sounds all to much and very expensive, but technically it is possible if total fund of 20000 men and complimenting equipment be allocated to the navyplus recruitment help from the army. The army can transfer equipments and men innitially. Most of the main schools and training installations have already been stablished and running, all they just need is advancement in their training methods and upgrades.

I hope the pak armforces invest on research and future developments in every dept and sub dept. Also investigate in developing in other conventional and nonconventinal weapons. Invest on more platforms like ship yards, aeronotical complex and defence industries to upgrade them with modern and latest technology. Employ weapons designers, scientists or coproduce new equipment with foreign companies. Tot that we might get like U214, plus more we already have F22p, JF17, Agosta 90, we should do further experiments and research to make them more effective or bigger or better and should be self sufficient in production while fulfilling our requirements are exporting rather then relying on other countries..
 
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hay amir what do u think is it possible

Z74 Check out very usefull threads and posts by both Growler and Pengiun at "Pakistan to US frigate by Aug 31st" and "Upgarde of PN FFG's" started by Growler.

Loads of info. and options for upgrades. Mant thanks to both of them.

As a far as Genesis is concerned let us find out from our Turkish friend what is the cost of such upgrades (Rough Estimate) that will really be the pivotal issue with PN for an interim/plug-in/gap filler type of program.

Cheers!:tup:
 
Z74 Check out very usefull threads and posts by both Growler and Pengiun at "Pakistan to US frigate by Aug 31st" and "Upgarde of PN FFG's" started by Growler.

Loads of info. and options for upgrades. Mant thanks to both of them.

As a far as Genesis is concerned let us find out from our Turkish friend what is the cost of such upgrades (Rough Estimate) that will really be the pivotal issue with PN for an interim/plug-in/gap filler type of program.

Cheers!:tup:

ifyou read my previous thread on PN inventory by 2014, what are your views on that... do u think its possible or bit too much on the plate
 
The C-295 MPA and C-295 MPA/ASW could be good replacement for PN obsolete Fokker and Atlantic MPA.


 
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?PN P-8 ex-PIA 737?
p-8-pic5.jpg

I know this is an old thread but PIA does not have the B737-800. It could be a good idea for retired 737-300s with wiglets but i doubt it since they were inducted in 1985 and 86 and are extremely old.
 
Structure of Pakistan Navy 2016

Type 054 Class Destroyer---?????
F22P Frigates --------------4 (Origionals)
F22P+ Frigates --------------6 (4 Built in China , 2 in Pakistan)
Tariq Class Frigates ---------6
OHP Frigate (Genesis) ------1 (If we can get 2 more OHP would be decent deal?????)
Missile Boats --------------20


Navy Wings:

36 J11 , Ideally navy should get these birds for Navy
12 JF17 Thunder , navy
12 Mirages
12 K-8 Training and Coast Guard survailence
20 Airlift Helicopters (Support Role)

8 P3C Orions


Submarines : Existing fleet 6
New Addition 1 Nuclear Submarine

Future Addition: 5 New submarines from China
 
Structure of Pakistan Navy 2016

Type 054 Class Destroyer---?????
F22P Frigates --------------4 (Origionals)
F22P+ Frigates --------------6 (4 Built in China , 2 in Pakistan)
Tariq Class Frigates ---------6
OHP Frigate (Genesis) ------1 (If we can get 2 more OHP would be decent deal?????)
Missile Boats --------------20


Navy Wings:

36 J11 , Ideally navy should get these birds for Navy
12 JF17 Thunder , navy
12 Mirages
12 K-8 Training and Coast Guard survailence
20 Airlift Helicopters (Support Role)

8 P3C Orions


Submarines : Existing fleet 6
New Addition 1 Nuclear Submarine

Future Addition: 5 New submarines from China

- Along with ships defined above, Pakistan needs 6 large conventional and 2 atomic submarines (or with nucs for second strike)
- Needs at least 2 dedicated Naval JFT squadrons. Either 2 (1 J-16 and 2nd J-31) squadrons of 2 J-16 at the least)
- Multiple options (sea based and land based) for long range SAM coverage out to over 100 miles
 

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