RC400 and MBDA MICA approved for JF-17

[EagleEyes]

con,

What is your problem?

You have lost the argument.

You have no stand.

French missile integration have been done before. Example Aim-9P/L in Mirages, and F-7 fighters. Americans approved it or not. Doesn't really matter.

Huge Cost for integration. There is no huge cost.

Thats why i said, **** off.

 

[con]

Guys,

Lets keep in mind that the MBDA MICA is a BVR AAM. It is in the class of the AIM-120 AMRAAM. The nice thing about the MICA is that it can be used in close-in dogfighting as well as for extended range engagements. In the ADA (French Air force), its replacing their older Magic SRAAM (which PAF also has) and the Matra 530D which was their primary BVR AAM prior to the induction of the MICA.

The effective range of MICA is 500m - 80Km.

The AIM-120 C5 will probably not be integrated on the JF-17 as the package in discussion negates the need.

It is interesting that PAF went for a French solution.
Wont it be in problem,if Indian MRCA went to the French?

Wonder why PAF did not consider the South African system. They are free of any politics. Did these missile have a satisfactory performance in PAF?

 

[EagleEyes]

Over all your claim that AIM-120C5 integration in French Radar (RC400) will not be done BECAUSE Americans and French will not agree with such. Your other claim is that it will not be done because there will be HUGE COST of it.

There is no huge cost, and even an immature newbie can answer that.

As far as your other claim is concerned that Americans and French will not agree with "such". Stop assuming things.

French radars in the past have always integrated different missiles such as PL-9, Darter-Series, AIM-9P, AIM-9L. Therefore your theory that Americans will not agree with such doesn't matter. Because it has been done in the past, and when big things are being transfered like F-16 Block 50s and so on. What makes you think that integration of such will not be done.. because both countries will not agree?

BVR missile integration have been done in your own air force. The Israeli radar your aircrafts carry are integrated with Russian missiles. So your theory that it will not be done because of technical difficulties, is also wrong.

As far as your claim to the LCA that it fired the short range missile. Hinting that short missile integration are NOT hard to be integrated. Buddy, its not true. The LCA fired the missile to check its composites and effects of the missile release in the aircraft. The missile was not integrated, there was no radar. I know you acknowledge that, but being a Defender India you need another substantiate claim to prove your HUGE Cost and two countries will not agree with "such".

Reply back intelligently understanding each and every word, or just dont reply at all, because you will get another "**** off".

 

[EagleEyes]

First and foremost understand the DIFFERENCE between integrating a short range AAM and a BVR. You would be able to post something worth while.

A radar's central role in a BVR system dwarfs anything that stuff like attaching Sidewinder with throw at you.

Since you know so much. Reply to this thing seprately with the reply of my above post.

Tell me why BVR system integration is so HARD? and WVR missile integration isn't? I am guessing it will require another HUGE COST?? Provide valid reasons please.

 

[EagleEyes]

Grippen Begins Flight Testing with IRIS-T Missiles

Saab conducted the first flight tests with the air-to-air missile IRIS-T. The test flight is part of the verification phase of the missile's integration with the Gripen aircraft. IRIS-T is an air-to-air missile is scheduled to replace the Sidewinder missiles in service with a number of European air forces. The development of IRIS-T is being undertaken as an international industrial project with the participation of Germany, Greece, Italy, Sweden, Norway and Spain. A total of over 4000 IRIS-T missiles will be produced over the coming years. The integration program, launched by the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration (FMV) in 2006 is scheduled to continue until 2009. Saab is also involved in the flight testing of the European Meteor medium-range, radar guided BVR missile.

Defense Update - November 9th, 2006

 

[con]

Since you know so much. Reply to this thing seprately with the reply of my above post.

Tell me why BVR system integration is so HARD? and WVR missile integration isn't? I am guessing it will require another HUGE COST?? Provide valid reasons please.

Answer me a simple question. Why has PAF not integrated Mica on F-16 so far,despite facing a BVR armed IAF?
What is so special about JF-17,that PAF will have a French missile on it and not F-16?

Given the embargo US would not have bothered what PAF does with F-16. But still they haven't. Why?

 

[con]

Defense Update - November 9th, 2006

What radar does Gripen carry? Who makes radar for Gripen?

 

[con]

BVR missile integration have been done in your own air force. The Israeli radar your aircrafts carry are integrated with Russian missiles. So your theory that it will not be done because of technical difficulties, is also wrong.

Difference is both Russian and Israel are OK with the integration. I am yet to see an example where US & French have agreed to let there system integrate for a client.
Please point me where I have said it is technically impossible to integrate the missile. But then it is not easy and inexpensive either.Specially when the source of the systems have not agreed for it.

As far as your claim to the LCA that it fired the short range missile. Hinting that short missile integration are NOT hard to be integrated. Buddy, its not true. The LCA fired the missile to check its composites and effects of the missile release in the aircraft. The missile was not integrated, there was no radar. I know you acknowledge that, but being a Defender India you need another substantiate claim to prove your HUGE Cost and two countries will not agree with "such".

Reply back intelligently understanding each and every word, or just dont reply at all, because you will get another "**** off".

Where have I said it is easy? Read my post again. I said,repeating again SHORT RANGE MISSILE DOES NOT REQUIRE RADAR FOR INTEGRATION.THERE TARGETING IS NOT DEPENDENT ON ONBOARD RADAR.

Compare the qualities of a BVR with that of a short range AAM.
Take the example of data links. How would make your aircraft communicate to your BVR if your avonics and BVR are from a different source and they dont decide to tell you how to make them talk?

And this is just one of the problem.

 

[Quwa]

This is the first major French sale/approval to Pakistan since the late 1990s! Maybe the fact that Indo-U.S. pressure on France in the 1990s and Pakistan's bankrupt state had an effect on it not being able to import MICA and integrate it on F-16?

 

[EagleEyes]

Mark,

I believe MICA was still in development stages.

 

[con]

This is the first major French sale/approval to Pakistan since the late 1990s! Maybe the fact that Indo-U.S. pressure on France in the 1990s and Pakistan's bankrupt state had an effect on it not being able to import MICA and integrate it on F-16?

I am not sure that if that is the case. The French supplied the Augusta subs to Pakistan. Why not a BVR?

Well even for JF-17 why is PAF going with a French BVR AND a French Radar? Why not have a Chinese radar,which obviously will be much cheaper?

 

[con]

Mark,

I believe MICA was still in development stages.

Indian Mirages were delivered with BVR capabilities.They were inducted at the same time as PAF F-16's.

 

[fatman17]

This is the first major French sale/approval to Pakistan since the late 1990s! Maybe the fact that Indo-U.S. pressure on France in the 1990s and Pakistan's bankrupt state had an effect on it not being able to import MICA and integrate it on F-16?

I dont disagree with you but during that same time PAF F-16s were the first to be equipped with the ATLIS Laser designator pods (french origin)

 

[EagleEyes]

Indian Mirages were delivered with BVR capabilities.They were inducted at the same time as PAF F-16's.

With MICA? MICA has been on Mirages III/V long ago.. there is just no accessible verification.

 

[blain2]

Answer me a simple question. Why has PAF not integrated Mica on F-16 so far,despite facing a BVR armed IAF?
What is so special about JF-17,that PAF will have a French missile on it and not F-16?

Given the embargo US would not have bothered what PAF does with F-16. But still they haven't. Why?

Because you require permission from the US to integrate third party capability on the aircraft. It is doable as there is a precedence with PAF being the first Air Force to integrate the French ATLIS LD pods outside of the NATO. The second part is that when you integrate something new (like MICA to F-16s,) you would have to foot the bill for it. Although PAF would have been willing to do that, the US has not been forthcoming on the permission to allow this type of integration work.

Embargoed does not mean that PAF can do whatever with the aircraft. Through out the sanctions, US allowed PAF to maintain the F-16s commercially but it was a very expensive affair.