Qaher F313 l News & Discussion

[django]

So you pulled your facts out of ur *** and then resort to name calling when caught out.

From well available stats, go look them up!!!

 

[PeeD]

To what end? Iran had much more credible projects that could have been used for propaganda.

People had forgotten about Q-313 until the defense minister brought it up again.

Even if we assume it was and is a lie, each one of them is just increasing people's expectations. Now everyone expects to see it fly. And according to the same defense minister, it is supposed to happen this year.

Why would someone, like the MOD, put himself in such an awkward situation?

The point is that a project like the Qaher is not the typical cost-effective Iranian approach. Shaheed-129 and S-171 combo + SAMs for airpower, this is an Iranian approach. The Qaher as a F-117 like asset would be good to have, but is it worth the resources spent on it?
This is what raises some doubts about it.

The defense ministry does sometimes projects just to prove its position. Take the Fotros... a just an answer to the IRGC SSJ S-129 to show that they are there too...

The Qaher at this point looks like a defense ministry attempt to prove that Iran can build a manned fighter/bomber. We don't even know whether the IRIAF or IRGCASF would order it.
There are very good projects of the defense ministry but at this point, I have my doubts about Qaher and need to wait till its first flight.

 

[500]

Before starting to write and accuse someone of misleading others, spend a bit of time to read the post and it's background.

@500 claimed that Q-313 can at most fly around 500 km/hr. I showed that with the current two engines, Q-313 can easily fly at speed above 1000 km/hr. My calculations were for subsonic speed and the drag coefficient that I used is for subsonic speed.

And it is not like the drag coefficient increases 10 folds at supersonic speed. F-4 subsonic drag coefficient is 0.021 and it's supersonic is 0.044. Something that can easily be overcome by adding after burner to current engines.

Finally, if you paid more attention to what I had written, you could see that I said that speed is more than enough for a ground attack jet. Q-313 doesn't need to be supersonic for its intended use but it's not also be slower than WWII aircrafts as some like to claim here.

Problem is that fat wing aircraft at speeds post 700 km/h will increase drag, the aerodynamic focus will move backward causing bad control.

Look at subsonic (less than 1000 km/h) Su-25:

It has large flaps, leading edge slats, slot between intakes and the fuselage. Now check Qaher:

Only small aileron and spoiler.

 

[Iranm]

Problem is that fat wing aircraft at speeds post 700 km/h will increase drag, the aerodynamic focus will move backward causing bad control.

Look at subsonic (less than 1000 km/h) Su-25:

It has large flaps, leading edge slats, slot between intakes and the fuselage. Now check Qaher:

Only small aileron and spoiler.

I'm not an expert but from what I understand from the text below does it mean anything about the thickness of the main wing or not!?
Rather than use the conventional tailplane configuration found on most aircraft, an aircraft designer may adopt the canard configuration to reduce the main wing loading, to better control the main wing airflow, or to increase the aircraft’s maneuverability, especially at high angles of attack or during a stall.
source: wikipedia

 

[500]

I'm not an expert but from what I understand from the text below does it mean anything about the thickness of the main wing or not!?
Rather than use the conventional tailplane configuration found on most aircraft, an aircraft designer may adopt the canard configuration to reduce the main wing loading, to better control the main wing airflow, or to increase the aircraft’s maneuverability, especially at high angles of attack or during a stall.
source: wikipedia

I am talking about wing here.

Wing has 3 basic profiles. Subsonic, transonic and supersonic:

In order to improve wing performance at lows speeds (for example during take off and landing), transonic and supersonic wings are equipped with large flaps and leading edge slats.

On this scheme:

yellow - leading edge slats
green - flaps
red - ailerons
blue - spoilers (they are used during landings to decrease wing's lift)

Now lets check Qaher wings again:

It lacks leading edge slats and flaps and has only ailerons and spoilers. So it proves again that thats subsonic wing. Subsonic fat wing does not need flaps and slats because it is already optimized for low speeds.

 

[giger]

I believe so.
Because it uses 2 x modified J85 same as Saegheh and I think it weights not much more.

It's not about weight they need methane jet engines to go higher

 

[gambit]

I'm not an expert but from what I understand from the text below does it mean anything about the thickness of the main wing or not!?
Rather than use the conventional tailplane configuration found on most aircraft, an aircraft designer may adopt the canard configuration to reduce the main wing loading, to better control the main wing airflow, or to increase the aircraft’s maneuverability, especially at high angles of attack or during a stall.
source: wikipedia

Then the canards had better be active flight controls elements, aka movable. From what we have seen so far, the F-313's canards are fixed, aka passive flight controls elements.

 

[Arminkh]

I am talking about wing here.

Wing has 3 basic profiles. Subsonic, transonic and supersonic:

In order to improve wing performance at lows speeds (for example during take off and landing), transonic and supersonic wings are equipped with large flaps and leading edge slats.

View attachment 391387

On this scheme:

yellow - leading edge slats
green - flaps
red - ailerons
blue - spoilers (they are used during landings to decrease wing's lift)

Now lets check Qaher wings again:

It lacks leading edge slats and flaps and has only ailerons and spoilers. So it proves again that thats subsonic wing. Subsonic fat wing does not need flaps and slats because it is already optimized for low speeds.

I think it would be wrong to compare Q-313 with other conventional aircrafts. It has a tandem wing design (something between type 2 and 3 below). The tandem wing design will provide stability at ground effect range (2 times the wing span altitude) and low speed. So maybe due to that, it doesn't need leading edge slants and flaps:

Tandem wings[edit]
Tandem Wing can have three configurations:

• a biplane-style Type-1 utilizing a shoulder-mounted main lift wing and belly-mounted sponsons similar to those on combat and transport helicopters
• a canard-style type-2 with a mid-size horizontal wing[note 2] near the nose of the craft directing airflow under the Main Lift Airfoil. This Type-2 tandem design is a major improvement during takeoff as it creates an air cushion to lift the craft above the water at a lower speed, thereby reducing water drag which is the biggest obstacle to successful seaplane launches.
• a tandem wing style with double-wing system as Tandem Airfoil Flairboat constructions by Jörg. This system is self-stabilizing and provides secure, comfortable and high-efficiency operation.

Then the canards had better be active flight controls elements, aka movable. From what we have seen so far, the F-313's canards are fixed, aka passive flight controls elements.

It is active flight control element. It has aileron:

 

[mohsen]

our scientists didn't wanted to copy the other fighter's design, they have chosen the hard way, the most complex design, this is what makes me proud.
advantages of tandem wings

I am talking about wing here.

Wing has 3 basic profiles. Subsonic, transonic and supersonic:

In order to improve wing performance at lows speeds (for example during take off and landing), transonic and supersonic wings are equipped with large flaps and leading edge slats.

View attachment 391387

On this scheme:

yellow - leading edge slats
green - flaps
red - ailerons
blue - spoilers (they are used during landings to decrease wing's lift)

Now lets check Qaher wings again:

It lacks leading edge slats and flaps and has only ailerons and spoilers. So it proves again that thats subsonic wing. Subsonic fat wing does not need flaps and slats because it is already optimized for low speeds.

You once again proved that your knowledge about aerodynamics is lower than a 5 years old kid with an Internet!

neither flaps nor slats have nothing to do with an aircraft being subsonic or supersonic. both flaps and slats are aerodynamic surfaces used to decrease stall speed, mostly during take off and or landing.

if you had the brain of that 5 years old kid, then you could do a small search an see many the Subsonic aircrafts with thick wings do have both the flaps and slats.

Qaher is tandem wing aircraft, on the front wing it has flaperon controls and on the rear wing has the elevon controls.

Boeing X-32 has thick wings, yet has a small leading edge slats, Qaher doesn't even need that small slats cause it has a second wing which produces the lift and has the flaperon controls.

 

[Arminkh]

From Janes:

http://www.janes.com/article/69610/iran-shows-new-footage-of-f-313-stealth-fighter

ran shows new footage of F-313 'stealth fighter'
Gareth Jennings, London - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
18 April 2017

A screenshot of Iran's Qahar F-313 'stealth fighter' seen during taxi-trials that were broadcast in April 2017. While modifications have been made to the mock-up that was shown in 2013, many design flaws remain. Source: IRIBnews
Iran's Qaher (Conqueror/Omnipotent) F-313 'stealth fighter' has undergone taxi trials that were broadcast on national media and posted to YouTube on 15 April. The aircraft - serial 08 - can be seen performing low-speed ground trials during the three minute report shown on IRIBnews.

While the single-seat aircraft looks broadly similar to the mock-up of the newly designed and developed domestic combat aircraft that was unveiled in early 2013, a number of modifications appear to have been made.

When it was first revealed on 2 February 2013, the original aircraft was immediately met with almost universal derision from the international press with design features that showed the aircraft to be fundamentally flawed. These included (but were not limited to) features that suggested no fly-by-wire control of the aircraft, poorly positioned air inlets, and an almost comically small cockpit (complete with a Perspex canopy).

While the recently broadcast footage shows the F-313 to be broadly similar in nature to the mock-up, some changes are apparent. While the original had shown a single-engined configuration, the new aircraft is a twin-engined designed. It has a beefed-up undercarriage, complete with a twin nosewheel; a two-piece canopy in place of the single-piece one of the mock-up; and is now at least large enough to accommodate a pilot.

Even so, many of the previously revealed design flaws remain. These include too small and poorly positioned air inlets that would likely cut air flow to the engines at even the slightest angle-of-attack; a wing-chord that is too thick for high speed performance; a retractable sensor turret that would limit the aircraft's speed when deployed; engines that appear to have no exhaust nozzles; and an overall design configuration that looks far from stealthy in just about every aspect. Aside from the apparent design flaws, a feature of the footage that casts doubt over the veracity of the aircraft is that the rudders do not seem to move in sync with the nosewheel, as should normally be the case.

 

[ilia]

Chaff and flare dispenser

 

[PeeD]

Beware of guys like 500.

There is a group of Israelis of their intelligence ministry on the forums of the internet that have the task to gather information. One of their tricks is to make strange claims and hope for a Iranian with insider information to come and argue with them, in hope that they release useful information.

So don't fall for this 500km/h max. BS one of their typical insult like claims to fire up emotions.

A tandem wing design such as on the Qaher will lead to a disrupted airflow at the rear wings where wing profile thickness rule of a conventional wing don't count anymore. I still think its a high subsonic design but ignore those 500km/h claims.

 

[Blue In Green]

Beware of guys like 500.

There is a group of Israelis of their intelligence ministry on the forums of the internet that have the task to gather information. One of their tricks is to make strange claims and hope for a Iranian with insider information to come and argue with them, in hope that they release useful information.

So don't fall for this 500km/h max. BS one of their typical insult like claims to fire up emotions.

A tandem wing design such as on the Qaher will lead to a disrupted airflow at the rear wings where wing profile thickness rule of a conventional wing don't count anymore. I still think its a high subsonic design but ignore those 500km/h claims.

I had a feeling something like that was going on. An Israeli wanting a mutual conversation with Iranian and Muslims in general is kinda fishy but nonetheless. I don't think many people outside of the engineering team work on on the qaher - 313 know it's final specs as well as what its final configuration will be. Online intelligence gathering through forums on the Iranian military is a rather assanine approach since most of Iran's military is shrouded in ambiguity.

We give our best guesses but concrete conclusions is something none can really come to.

 

[Arminkh]

Beware of guys like 500.

There is a group of Israelis of their intelligence ministry on the forums of the internet that have the task to gather information. One of their tricks is to make strange claims and hope for a Iranian with insider information to come and argue with them, in hope that they release useful information.

So don't fall for this 500km/h max. BS one of their typical insult like claims to fire up emotions.

A tandem wing design such as on the Qaher will lead to a disrupted airflow at the rear wings where wing profile thickness rule of a conventional wing don't count anymore. I still think its a high subsonic design but ignore those 500km/h claims.

Well 500 is in fact Yuzi Robin. He copied one of Soheil's renderings for Simorgh Satellite Carrier for one of his speeches in Washington DC.

Kidding, but the statement about Soheil's rendering is true. He is a famous guy now.

I had a feeling something like that was going on. An Israeli wanting a mutual conversation with Iranian and Muslims in general is kinda fishy but nonetheless. I don't think many people outside of the engineering team work on on the qaher - 313 know it's final specs as well as what its final configuration will be. Online intelligence gathering through forums on the Iranian military is a rather assanine approach since most of Iran's military is shrouded in ambiguity.

We give our best guesses but concrete conclusions is something none can really come to.

Many of Israelis showing interest in Iran's defense projects are in fact Iranian Jews who have immigrated to Israel.

However, I don't rule out what PeeD said. You don't believe what you can find in these forums sometimes.

 

[Penguin]

For people who think it is a "small" plane; F-1 Mirage.
View attachment 390862 View attachment 390864

Iran air force (from right to left) MIG-29, F14 and F-4, SU-24 and Mirage F1. Mirage F-1 itself is relatively small.

Question: are there any picture of the F-313 taxiing, in which there is hot exhaust visible (i.e. trembling air, distorted background)?