PYD's Muslim: Ankara agreed to conditional autonomy

[al-Hasani]

Sinan, as you know then I really like Turkey myself since some of my paternal ancestors were born in Istanbul and I even have distant Turkish ancestry from Istanbul. If some of my thoughts about the Kurdish "problem" caused offence to you then I apologize. I am not propagandizing or proposing that Turkey should loose her current territory if that was what you thought.

We Hijazis have a long-standing relationship with Turkey and Turks and about 250.000 Turks/descendants of Turks live in KSA - mainly in Hijaz.

 

[Syrian Lion]

@Syrian Lion

^^^^ Is this map accurate which shows %90 of the Turkish border is controlled by Kurds ?

And another question. Let's say Assad wins the conflict and kicks all the FSA from Syria. Would he let the Kurds have autonomous region in Syria as this means he would lose control of the most of the oil fields ?

the Kurds control the north, mostly the borders, but not the whole province or cities, they control their own towns, villages, and etc...

and I don't believe Syrians will allow division, the Kurds are Plan X for Syria, after the army finishes with F$A, the west will have another war for Syria, which is probably with the Kurds... that is the west plan...

and I believe the Syrian kurds don't want division...

 

[Armstrong]

Makkawi = Meccan.

Oh, Kashmir looks absolutely beautiful. Must be special to belong to such a small minority in Pakistan (3% as you said). Speaking about Kashmiris then I just saw a documentary about Salman Rushdie yesterday, LOL.

Must be special to belong to such a small minority in Pakistan - You say !

Dude the notion of Muslim Unity that binds us together as a Nation has been achieved through the bloods of hundreds of thousands to millions of Pakistanis who came to these lands, leaving behind everything they had & either made it to their 'Homeland' or were cut along the way - That bond is very difficult to break & despite our challenges & our monumental goof ups that threaten it...it still holds !

Added to that is the fact that I live in a part of Pakistan that is more believing in that 'bound' than any other & consequently has ethnic minorities going in the tens of millions who are not only perfectly settled there as equal citizens without any discrimination but that they're not even 'differentiated' in an Us or Them manner - Thats the amount of love we have for each other !

So I've never really felt a Minority in my country...never...ever !

Heck even the largest party in my Province & now after the election in my country is dominated by Kashmiris & even the Prime Minister of Pakistan is a Kashmiri - So in a way I feel bad for other ethnicities - We've screwed with those poor souls long enough !

 

[al-Hasani]

I'm not sure about that. They are 7% of Iran and 30% of them are shia. Actually there was a Soviet mahabad republic created from parts of Iran, however it collapsed directly as soon as Soviet union stopped supporting it because of no popular support.

Some external kurdish parties like Pjak (PKK) tried to create a PKK VS Turkey situation in Iran, however that also failed because the nature of Iranian kurds, their history and the country differs. You can't copy a PKK and put it in Iran to succeed.

Also comparing Israeli-Palestinian situation is to extreme to be compared to Iran-Kurd situation and you know that also.

The refugee problem is going on very long and we had 8 years war and we have extreme sanctions, so it's difficult to receive millions of refugees for almost 20 years. Countries are complaining for receiving Palestinian and Syrian refugees, now think about Iranian problem with refugees. We receive most of the refugees in the world together with pakistan I think.

That stupid mullah from a corner in Isfahan is a nobody in Iran, they have warned him to shut up.

Well, most sources say that about 7-8 million Iranians are Kurds and that equals to about 10%. Anyway my point was just that you can't use a pan-ethincity like Indo-Iranian or Semitic and believe that just because 2 fighting people from one of those groups would engage in some short of disagreements/conflicts then they would automatically settle the score just because both belong to a pan-ethnic/linguistic group even if they were more different than similar. Europeans have killed each other for HUNDREDS of years and they are all Indo-Europeans (at least in terms of linguistics since actual genetic tests/ancestry is something completely different and predates any ethnic grouping as a phenomenon) despite nearly all of them being Indo-Europeans.

The Kurdish member here already told you that they would work for autonomy in Iran too. They have done and do so too in this very moment of time. Besides Kurds are not a homogenous group of people. Many of them are even mixed with Arabs, Assyrians etc. in Syria and Iraq but they still identify as Kurds and want autonomy. I really struggle to see why it would be any different in Iran.

Well it is not a completely accurate comparison I agree but the overall points were correct nevertheless.

Well, I just gave you an example. I have seen many Iranians here write bad comments about Afghans and how they cause all the problems in Iran. I just gave you an example of infighting from the same "pan-ethnic" orientation. Let us not forget that Afghanistan also has large Turkic and Mongoloid populations. Besides Pashtuns although speaking an Indo-Iranian language are not a homogenous people but a mixture of Turks, people from current day Iran, Central Asia, India etc.

I am not taking any sides. All I say is that I believe that the Kurds deserve their own country. We Arabs have 22 countries as told before. Iran has a country, Turkey too. Why can't the Kurds have one? After all we nearly all support the plight of the Palestinians to get their own country. They are Muslims too. Or are they different just because Kurds are not Arab?

Anyway this is a very controversial topic and goes back to the border changes that took place in the Middle East some 100 years ago.

Must be special to belong to such a small minority in Pakistan - You say !

Dude the notion of Muslim Unity that binds us together as a Nation has been achieved through the bloods of hundreds of thousands to millions of Pakistanis who came to these lands, leaving behind everything they had & either made it to their 'Homeland' or were cut along the way - That bond is very difficult to break & despite our challenges & our monumental goof ups that threaten it...it still holds !

Added to that is the fact that I live in a part of Pakistan that is more believing in that 'bound' than any other & consequently has ethnic minorities going in the tens of millions who are not only perfectly settled there as equal citizens without any discrimination but that they're not even 'differentiated' in an Us or Them manner - Thats the amount of love we have for each other !

So I've never really felt a Minority in my country...never...ever !

Heck even the largest party in my Province & now after the election in my country is dominated by Kashmiris & even the Prime Minister of Pakistan is a Kashmiri - So in a way I feel bad for other ethnicities - We've screwed with those poor souls long enough !

Man, I meant the special thing as a positive thing solely - as a thing that sets you apart slightly in a good way. I know that Pakistan is not based on ethnicity AT ALL since the country is just 66 years and was founded on Islamic principals and a place where all Muslims from the region could move to. If that was not the case then Pakistan would not exist for even 1 single day.

 

[-SINAN-]

And was not your father figure a commander in Ottoman forces? And were not majority of the ones fighting in Galipolli Turks? It was a grave mistake for Kurds to aid turks at all, but they did, and turks returned the favour by massacring hundreds of thousands of Kurds.

Do you think as an Ottoman Officer, has a position to promise anything to Kurds. I will say this again revolt against state, and you will punished.

20 more what?

20 more revolts done by kurds and all oppressed by military forces.

Kurds never committed one single massacre against Turkish civilians

Maybe they learned their lesson from Armenians.

Only Turks are notorious for that. Adolf Hitler learned a lot from ataturk.

Again saying infact i'm going to write this sentence and copy/paste in the future.
Revolt against state, you will face concequences.

Kurds revolted against a state that wanted to annihilate the Kurds

Total lie. If we wanted that you would have no where to be found.

much like the ataturk administration annihilated the bosniaks, cherkez, laz, Pontic greeks, armenians and Assyrians.

We don't and never had quarrels with Bosniaks, cherkez, laz

Pontic greeks, armenians and Assyrians also revolted and dealt with that was at the ottoman time not Turkey.

But their dream of turkifying everyone living in Anatolia stopped when they met the Kurds. The Kurds resisted. And for that they got massacred.

Look what i said, i was sure that would be come in handy.
Revolt against state, you will face concequences.

And are you proud of massacring innocent people in their thousands? I think there is only one people in middle east that take pride in such things and that is the turks.

Revolt against state, you will face concequences.

Sinan, as you know then I really like Turkey myself since some of my paternal ancestors were born in Istanbul and I even have distant Turkish ancestry from Istanbul. If some of my thoughts about the Kurdish "problem" caused offence to you then I apologize. I am not propagandizing or proposing that Turkey should loose her current territory if that was what you thought.

We Hijazis have a long-standing relationship with Turkey and Turks and about 250.000 Turks live in KSA - mainly in Hijaz.

Nope sir, i apologize you if you answered harshly.....

 

[Keyxusraw]

Strawmen after strawmen after strawmen. Man, you turks are funny. They take pride in committing massacres against humanity and shout out loud when someone even touches the hair of a turk.

And do not lie. You annihilated the laz and cherkes people and made them forget their language much like you did to the Kurds but fortunately we were able to resist. How many people do you know who can speak laz, bosniac or cherkes nowadays? Maybe a couple of hundred? How many laz, cherkes or bosniac singers are there in Turkey? Maybe a couple of dozens? In contrary, the Kurds resisted and today there are thousands of Kurdish singers and millions of people who can speak Kurdish despite all the massacres you committed against Kurds.

Total lie. If we wanted that you would have no where to be found.

Haha! You already tried to mate! You tried to annihilate Kurds. Between 1990-2000 you displaced millions of Kurds, erased 4000 Kurdish villages and killed over 40.000 innocent Kurds! But you saw the counter productivity that all Kurds suddenly turned against the state and aided PKK. That is why you can not commit a massacre anymore. PKK has been revolting against the state for 30 years. Why do you not massacre the Kurds now then? Because you have already lost the war even though you were armed to the teeth by your American and Israeli brethren.

And please, do not use the revolt as an excuse. For instance, the Agri rebellion was situated in Agri. But the Zilan massacre was situated in Van. You killed hundreds of thousands of Kurds who had nothing to do with the Agri Uprising.

So for what did you commit the Uludere massacre?

 

[Armstrong]

Man, I meant the special thing as a positive thing solely - as a thing that sets you apart slightly in a good way. I know that Pakistan is not based on ethnicity AT ALL since the country is just 66 years and was found on Islamic principals and a place where all Muslims from the region could move to. If that was not the case then Pakistan would not exist for even 1 single day.

Wait...did you just call me a Special Person !

I'm very bright...okay maybe not that much but I still have a higher than average IQ !

I know bro...I was joking !

But really the only thing special in all of that is that I get to use the 'Kashmiri' angle when debating with Indians & Others who claim oh how the Kashmiris are oppressed in Pakistan & how we're treating them so good....as if the mass graves, the thousands rapes & tens of thousands missing is very good treatment indeed !

I've just never thought of myself as belonging to a special group - I've never been made to feel like that here in Pakistan & thats something I love about this country & my people !

 

[Armstrong]

@Sinan @Keyxusraw - What seems to be the grievances of the Kurds against Turkey & other States where they are present ?

 

[Shapur Zol Aktaf]

Well, most sources say that about 7-8 million Iranians are Kurds and that equals to about 10%. Anyway my point was just that you can't use a pan-ethincity like Indo-Iranian or Semitic and believe that just because 2 fighting people from one of those groups would automatically settle scores.

The Kurdish member here already told you that they would work for autonomy in Iran too. They have done and do so too in this very moment of time. Besides Kurds are not a homogenous group of people. Many of them are even mixed with Arabs, Assyrians etc. in Syria and Iraq but they still identify as Kurds and want autonomy. I really struggle to see why it would be any different than Iran.

Well it is not a completely accurate comparison I agree but the overall points were correct nevertheless.

Well, I just gave you an example. I have seen many Iranians here write bad comments about Afghans and how they cause all the problems in Iran. I just gave you an example of infighting from the same "pan-ethnic" orientation. Let us not forget that Afghanistan also has large Turkic and Mongoloid populations. Besides Pashtuns although speaking an Indo-Iranian language are not a homogenous people but a mixture of Turks, people from current day Iran, Central Asia etc.

I am not taking any sides. All I say is that I believe that the Kurds deserve their own country. We Arabs have 22 countries as told before. Iran has a country, Turkey too. Why can't the Kurds have one? After all we nearly all support the plight of the Palestinians to get their own country. They are Muslims too. Or are they different just because Kurds are not Arab?

Anyway this is a very controversial topic and goes back to the border changes that took place in the Middle East some 100 years ago.



Man, I meant the special thing as a positive thing. I know that Pakistan is not based on ethnicity AT ALL since the country is just 66 years and was found on Islamic principals and a place where all Muslims from the region could move to. If that was not the case then Pakistan would not exist for even 1 single day.

I agree that based on "Pan-ism" you can't solve problems. However I just said comparing kurdish situation in Iran to other parts is totally wrong. Kurds were never genocided or massacred in Iran, and surely not attacked for being kurds (out of anti-kurdish racism). Some of their groups were attacked because of politics. As you know islamic republic has an anti-nationalist policy (they consider nationalism "pagan") and kurdish islamists are well accepted in their ranks, such as being ministers.

Al-Hassani, did you know that Kurds were negotiating for their own country after the fall of Ottoman empire and then they were put aside. Search for those agreements and maps, you will see that Iran was not part of them.

Well I think youtube and forums don't represent what Iranians think. Iran has provided relatively very good care for refugees according to UN and it has shown healthy signs of civil society when it comes to protecting and helping refugees (Organisations and activists who combat discrimination when that occurs). Afghanistan is indeed a mixed nation (majority Pashtun-tajik country, and I think there is a trend of assimilating into the pashtun-tajik pool when looking to linguage)

I do believe kurds deserve autonomy or even a country. Their nation is peacefull, one of the stable nations in middle east. But well that's also a Kurdish issue which they should solve themselfes. They helped the turkish ottomans a lot based on sunnism. After that they got disappointed because turks have been extremely anti-kurdish and their handling of kurds has been very harsh. That's why you've seen the most severe kurdish reaction in Turkey and also in Iraq.

We'll see which direction it goes. I hope the best solution for kurds while at the same time considering their situation and that of their homeland.

 

[al-Hasani]

Wait...did you just call me a Special Person !

I'm very bright...okay maybe not that much but I still have a higher than average IQ !

I know bro...I was joking !

But really the only thing special in all of that is that I get to use the 'Kashmiri' angle when debating with Indians & Others who claim oh how the Kashmiris are oppressed in Pakistan & how we're treating them so good....as if the mass graves, the thousands rapes & tens of thousands missing is very good treatment indeed !

I've just never thought of myself as belonging to a special group - I've never been made to feel like that here in Pakistan & thats something I love about this country & my people !

LOL, English is not my first language 7abibi. What I meant by special is that it is rare and that it is something to be proud of.

Yes, I imagine that. How many Kashmiris are there and do most of the Kashmiris now live in India or Pakistan - I mean the Kashmiri diaspora?

I am sorry to hear that. I hope that peace will come to Kashmir and that the people will be able to decide for themselves. It is a beautiful region from what I have seen if one likes high mountains.

Yes, that is a good thing in Pakistan otherwise you are deemed to fail as a nation and people - although I hear from some Pakistanis that Punjabis have a great influence and some negative comments from other people here and there but I guess that this is impossible to combat. We have regional/ethnic tendencies in all countries. Or city-village rivalry etc. As long as there are humans there will be made differences out of everything.

 

[-SINAN-]

Strawmen after strawmen after strawmen. Man, you turks are funny. They take pride in committing massacres against humanity and shout out loud when someone even touches the hair of a turk.

The so called " massacres against humanity" is Total revolt in Kurdish regions, killing of Turkish state officials, killing or try to killing every Turkish soldier in the region for an Autonomy. Then army cames and clashes with rebels. Rebels die. And it becomes a genocide. Believe you Kurds are more funny. You even classify Halepçe massacre as a Genocide.

And do not lie. You annihilated the laz and cherkes people and made them forget their language much like you did to the Kurds but fortunately we were able to resist.

Nope we didn'T annihilated laz or cherkez people, you and your false propaganda is well known in this forum.
Your accusation conflicts, the whole Armenian gangs weren't able to resist despite of being backed by Russia but you resists. Infact there was no action against to make you resist anything.

How many people do you know who can speak laz, bosniac or cherkes nowadays? Maybe a couple of hundred? How many laz, cherkes or bosniac singers are there in Turkey? Maybe a couple of dozens? In contrary, the Kurds resisted and today there are thousands of Kurdish singers and millions of people who can speak Kurdish

Many but they are well integrated into society. And not traitors to country. (Not saying all of the Kurds are traitors.)

despite all the massacres you committed against Kurds.

Revolt against state, you will face concequences.

Haha! You already tried to mate! You tried to annihilate Kurds. Between 1990-2000 you displaced millions of Kurds, erased 4000 Kurdish villages and killed over 40.000 innocent Kurds!

Claims, claims, PKK killed more Kurdish villagers than State. If there were no PKK there would be no restricted zones and no need to displacement. If we tried to annihilate Kurds there will be no Kurds in Turkey today.

But you saw the counter productivity that all Kurds suddenly turned against the state and aided PKK. That is why you can not commit a massacre anymore. PKK has been revolting against the state for 30 years. Why do you not massacre the Kurds now then? Because you have already lost the war even though you were armed to the teeth by your American and Israeli brethren.

Because there were no massacres back than and no massacres today. It's all made up story by PKK sympathizans like you.

 

[-SINAN-]

@Sinan @Keyxusraw - What seems to be the grievances of the Kurds against Turkey & other States where they are present ?

Not all but some in Turkey especially PKK- sympatizans. To take land from Turkey and form a State in those lands.

 

[Armstrong]

LOL, English is not my first language 7abibi. What I meant by special is that it is rare and that it is something to be proud of.

I know I was kidding !

Yes, I imagine that. How many Kashmiris are there and do most of the Kashmiris now live in India or Pakistan - I mean the Kashmiri diaspora?

Well 37% of Kashmir is under Pakistani Control, 43% in Indian hands & the remainder with the Chinese !

I don't know the figures but I think that its perhaps 50:50 or 40:60 between Pakistan & India, in terms of the Kashmiris who live in either country !

But unlike India there ain't a rebellion in Pakistani Kashmir nor are atrocities committed against them which means we're quite happy here & very proud to call ourselves Pakistanis !

I am sorry to hear that. I hope that peace will come to Kashmir and that the people will be able to decide for themselves. It is a beautiful region from what I have seen if one likes high mountains.

Yeah lets not go there lest I say something that sours the mood !

Yes, that is a good thing in Pakistan otherwise you are deemed to fail as a nation and people - although I hear from some Pakistanis that Punjabis have a great influence and some negative comments from other people here and there but I guess that this is impossible to combat. We have regional/ethnic tendencies in all countries. Or city-village rivalry etc. As long as there are humans there will be made differences out of everything.

The Province I was talking about was Punjab - My Home !

 

[al-Hasani]

I made a double post.

 

[-SINAN-]

Al-Hassani, did you know that Kurds were negotiating for their own country after the fall of Ottoman empire and then they were put aside. Search for those agreements and maps, you will see that Iran was not part of them.

True, Western countries were offering them a state.