Perspective: I am an Ahmadi Muslim and I love Pakistan

[Armstrong]

And the right to bear RPG's and private ownership of Tanks!

Aslaa Pashtunooon ka zay-var hai - I've never really understood this !

If you guys love Jewellery so much why not wear some bangles, have your nose & eyes pierced....perhaps even go for body piercing but this....?

 

[pak-marine]

Personally. No

Ahmadiyya teachings (theologically speaking) are in a direct conflict with Islam on 'core issues'. I am saying this after having read Ahmadiyya texts in great detail. They also consider Muslims as Kuffar or Murtadin/Munafiqeen. I highlighted the list of forbidden acts to them i.e Marrying a Muslim, Praying the Janaza of a Muslim, Praying with Muslims in the same Mosque behind a Muslim Imam etc.

You might think that im taking it too seriously, i thought so too. The issue is that, theology aside, it creates a 'social wall' which they won't break, in other words won't assimilate. The Ahmadiya problem is here to stay, however the 'realistic' room for reform lies in amending the constitution and keeping the state out of the business of labeling citizens like products on a shelve.

Why can't we simply believe on there will be a judgement day and if ahmedis , Shias , Jews or Hindus are wrong they will pay for it there .. Let them call / practice / pray what they wish to .. Separate religion from state ! Let people practice religious freedom .. Else next you will be on to Shias than barelvi a and the 74 others unless you transform into a salafi / takfeeri .. Don't you see !!??

 

[Pakistani E]

@Jaanbaz

Do Ahmadis consider us as Muslims?

Im not asking your perspective, i am asking the perspective of Ahmadi belief.

You declared me kafir in 1890s. Why is it now that you suddenly woke up and worried with what I consider you?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I don't know why that made me laugh.

Tht statement was made by maulana maududis son when confrontin orya maqbool,paracha n other dipshits on live tv..


I applaud that guy.... i bet his father would be rolling in his grave...

 

[Pakistani E]

I excommunicated my Ahmadi friends for not who they were but for lying in my face. You are doing exactly the same.

• "All those Muslims who do not enter the fold of the Promised Messiah, whether or not they have heard of Messiah (Mirza Ghulam Qadiani) are considered Kafirs and are beyond the pale of Islam."
  (Aeena-e-Sadaqat, P. 9/35, By Bashir-uddin Mahmud)
  
  
• • "God has revealed it to me that the person who did not believe in me after having heard about me is not a Muslim."
    (Al-Fazl, Qadian, Jan 15, 1935 - Al-Hukum, 4:24, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)
• • "Any person who believes in Moses but does not believe in Christ, or believes in Christ but does not believe in Muhammad or believes in Muhammad but does not believe in the Promised Messiah, is not only a Kafir, but he is a confirmed (Pakka) Kafir, and out of the fold of Islam."
    (Kalimatul Fasl, P. 110, By Mirza Bashir Ahmad Qadiani)

You declared us kafir first, when we replied in kind you threw a tantrum. Time for Muslim ummah to grow up and stop acting like a sulking emo teenager. This has been written way before then your posted quotes above:

'From the beginning, I have been of the view that no one becomes a kafir or a dadjaal by rejecting my claim Such a one would certainly be in error and astray from the right path. I do not call him faithless but he who rejects the truth which God Almighty has disclosed to me would be in error and astray from the straight path. I do not designate anyone who believes in the Kalimah as a kafir, unless by rejecting me and calling me a kafir, he himself becomes a kafir. In this matter, my opponents have always taken a lead. they called me kafir and prepared fatwas against me. I did not take the lead in preparing fatwas against them. They would be prepared to confess that if I am a Muslim in the estimation of God Almighty, then by calling me a kafir, they themselves become one according to the fatwa of the Holy Prophetsa. Thus I do not call them kafir but they themselves fall within the purview of the fatwa of the Holy Prophet sa.' (Ahmad, [Hadhrat] Mirza Ghulam. Tiryaqul Qulub, pp. 130/31; Ruhani Khazain, vol. 15, pp. 432/33)

 

[Jungibaaz]

God Bless Pakistan's minorities, including Ahmadi Muslims.

Pakistan needs more secularized.

It's the need of the hour. Pakistanis need to stop defining their identities as Muslims and some extras.
We're not just people rammed between India and Persia, we have a culture, we have ethnic identities, we have what we call Pakistaniyat, and it has been hijacked by extremists, all while free thinkers in our society are vilified and some picked off.

Secularist ideals need to adopted to some extent, full on secular approach is too extreme for Pakistan in a short time frame.

Their country, their rules.

Our policy is not to interfere in the internal affairs of other countries.

I admire this policy greatly, and the Chinese being our brothers are very noble not to interfere in our problems, only offering help where they can.

But, in this instance, I'd ask you for your personal opinion on Pakistan's religious problems and the Chinese perspective. Please give ALL members here, the COLD HARD truth.

Whether the Ahmediya are Muslim or not is not for me to judge, it is a matter between them and their God and I will leave it at that. However, from a strictly social point of view, I believe that the second amendment was the single greatest act of injustice ever carried out in the history of this country and we have been paying dearly for it ever since. To win over the support of the conservative mullah lobby, Bhutto effectively sold Ahmedi blood in return for support for his 'Islamic Socialist Manifesto'. Mullahs had been baying for blood ever since Pakistan had been established and this act left Ahmedis as fair game, soon it was their mosques being vandalized, then the graves of their dead, before finally it was the living who were robbed of their right to live.

The same elements are now chanting "Kafir, Kafir Shia Kafir" and we are only waiting for another Bhutto to sell the Shias so we can wash the streets with their blood, then the Barelvis, then the Ismailis, the Bohras, the Hur, and every other group until finally there is no one left but the self-righteous Isslafiya.

Hear, hear!!!

I am Sunni, 'technically', whatever Sunni is anyway...
I hold secularist ideals, and I believe that religion is good as long as it is kept between you, your God and no-one else.

For us, mortals and imperfect beings to judge others' relationship with God and their way of life is completely wrong and a HUGE sin in itself. We are playing God and I'm sure this was not the way it was meant to be.

Live and let live, Pakistan first, Pakistan for all Pakistanis.

Some of the Mullah lobby is a cancer, it has always been a cancer, dating back before Pakistan, the clergy everywhere are known to be the ones who damage their religion the most. Pakistan's history is a fine example.

Lets put aside religious Angle for a moment (and forever)
Iam not against AHMEDIS.....and I call them our BROTHERS

Ahmadis are my brothers too, and by God their devotion to Pakistan will serve them in return someday.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Qadiani = Kafir

Muslim = Pure / Kafir = Impure

Pakistan = Land of the Pure

Simple.

Who are you to call others pure or impure?
Leave it to God to judge others.

Quaid chose a Hindu as the first interim head of state, a Hindu wrote our beloved national anthem, he visited a church in Karachi 3 days after our independance to let Christians know that Pakistan (the Land of the Pure) is for them.

Who the hell are me and you to stand against Jinnah's land of the pure?

@Icarus

I do not consider Ahmadis as Muslims.
I also consider the constitutional claws to 'label' them as utterly stupid and against the virtue of our state. People considered Ahmadis non Muslims from day one and they will NEVER be accepted as a matter of theology. However it doesn't give us the right to 'legislate' against them. They are the citizens of Pakistan and therefore must have equal rights and liberties.

Well said, I can respect that friend. We have no right to do so, but also I do not feel at all comfortable telling others what they are. But still I agree with you, the part in bold is the bottom line for this discussion.

No he wasn't; he never gave into this sectarian BS.....he was a non denominational Muslim like myself !

He was a Pakistani, and that is all that matters.

 

[airmarshal]

Ahmadis can be Pakistanis and their patriotism cant be questioned.

Ahmadis are not Muslims and they must stop pretending as Muslims. You dont believe in finality of Prophet Mohammed, you can try as much, you are not Muslim.

No reason to debate. Like any club has policy, Islam as religion has policies and rules to follow. First one one being belief in Oneness of Almighty and Prophet Mohammed PBUH being His last prophet.

 

[FaujHistorian]

You declared us kafir first, when we replied in kind you threw a tantrum. .....

Tit for tit

in a typical mola jut sultan rahi fashion (nay Musrrat Shaheen fashion as we talk about tits here).

One side was stupid and moronic to declare Ahmadis as kafir. Noone gave them authority to do so.

But then

Mirza sahib doubled the $tupidity by declaring their opponents as kafir. Because he too didn't have any authority to do so.



It just boggles my mind that an educated person like you would continue believing in "tit for tit" response from bunch of $tupid Mullahs pretending to be prophets nay gods.

.......
'From the beginning, I have been of the view that no one becomes a kafir or a dadjaal by rejecting my claim Such a one would certainly be in error and astray from the right path. I do not call him faithless but he who rejects the truth which God Almighty has disclosed to me would be in error and astray from the straight path. I do not designate anyone who believes in the Kalimah as a kafir, unless by rejecting me and calling me a kafir, he himself becomes a kafir. In this matter, my opponents have always taken a lead. they called me kafir and prepared fatwas against me. I did not take the lead in preparing fatwas against them. They would be prepared to confess that if I am a Muslim in the estimation of God Almighty, then by calling me a kafir, they themselves become one according to the fatwa of the Holy Prophetsa. Thus I do not call them kafir but they themselves fall within the purview of the fatwa of the Holy Prophet sa.' (Ahmad, [Hadhrat] Mirza Ghulam. Tiryaqul Qulub, pp. 130/31; Ruhani Khazain, vol. 15, pp. 432/33)

See this is the same level of stupidity as the one by a tiny teeny village Mullah (or is it Mullee), declaring others kafirs willy nilly.


please avoid such kind of shenanigans if possible.

Be your own man

Have your own faith if you want any kind of semblance of peace in Pakistan.


We have had enough with the blind and deaf followers of one Mullah or another, one Khalefee or another.

Anytime a Mullah, nabi or peer starts declaring his opponents kafir, it is time to abandon him, nay shun him.


Fork all of them.

Treat them as club owners. Sure you like one club over the other, then go attend that club.

But that doesn't mean one club is kafir and other is not.


Only Allah swt will judge our faith on the day of judgement.

No one else has such authority, NO ONE!


peace to you.

 

[NP-complete]

I've ahmadi relatives. I dont care about their religion because for me all religions are the same. But i find them to be a kind of cult. They dont really fit in the social fabric of Pakistan. It was like this even before anti-ahmadi movement started. West suits them better. Communities can live in seclusion there. Thats the way ahmadis like it.

 

[FaujHistorian]

I've ahmadi relatives. I dont care about their religion because for me all religions are the same. But i find them to be a kind of cult. They dont really fit in the social fabric of Pakistan. It was like this even before anti-ahmadi movement started. West suits them better. Communities can live in seclusion there. Thats the way ahmadis like it.

While agree with your observations about cultish behavior among some,

But I beg you. not to use this for stereotyping ALL Ahmadis.

I personally know the ones who do not want any kind of seclusion. They are more mainstream than many of my shia and wahabi acquaintances.

So

it is wrong to say that "West suits them".

Pakistan too should suit them just as West.

They are sons and daughters of our soil.

Our faith should not be so weak that we feel threatened by a "so called cult" to a point that we pick up guns and shooting them.


Peace to you

 

[B+ Dracula]

Ahmediyah should understand this, there is a worldwide Hatred against them Esp in Muslim World and Pakistan is Heaven in this regard as compared to what happened to them in Indonesia

Religious persecution in Indonesia: Murder in God's name | The Economist
http://www.newsweek.com/persecution-indonesias-ahmadi-muslims-68737
ISLAM in INDONESIA - Kill Kafir Ahmadiyya.flv - YouTube

 

[Danish saleem]

Yes its also the Fact , that during the British Rule after 1857 Civil War, British supported three new sects, and all these three sects base on the names of cities of India.

1. Deobandi from Deoband city
2. Brelvi from Breli City
3. Qadiyani from Qadiyan city.

All these sects also inherited some christian religious traditions also like.

1. Deobandi Sects, have Tablighi Jamat, worked same as Christian Missionaries.
2. Brelvi sects, thinks Prophet SAWW not a human being, he is noor, like Christian thinks that Prophet Jesus also not a Human, and formed from Gods Body.
3. Qadiyani Sects, belives that Holy Prophet SAWW was not a last Prophet, like Christian thinks, that their Jesus PBUH will return, and Jesus PBUH will be the last Prophet.

so as a student of Islam , i found many similarities in christian believes and these three sects.

 

[Malik Alashter]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم.
( لا إكراه في الدين قد تبين الرشد من الغي فمن يكفر بالطاغوت ويؤمن بالله فقد استمسك بالعروة الوثقى لا انفصام لها والله سميع عليم ( 256 ) )

Allah said it.

There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error.

If we Muslim don't follow the wisdom of Allah we will end in hell no doubt.

Ahmadi or Sunni or Shiite every one of us has never decided which one is the right path I came to this life from a couple Shiite then I inherited their believe. if my believe was good then I'm lucky if it is not then I doomed and this is right for every human being. no one what so ever has the right to choose for me.

If you think your religion is right and mine is wrong that way of thinking it is wrong by itself because I can prove you 100 time that yours is wrong.

the best way is that every one of us respect the choice of the others this way we will live in peace help each other to build our countries.

the worst muslims are whhabis and selefis not because they are following their wahhabi or selefi it's because they try to force their views by violence.

these people offend our religion our nations our cultures it's the responsibility for all the muslims clerics to refuse these people and boycott them if they don't stop their none sense.

 

[Danish saleem]

Ahmediyah should understand this, there is a worldwide Hatred against them Esp in Muslim World and Pakistan is Heaven in this regard as compared to Indonesia

Religious persecution in Indonesia: Murder in God's name | The Economist
http://www.newsweek.com/persecution-indonesias-ahmadi-muslims-68737
ISLAM in INDONESIA - Kill Kafir Ahmadiyya.flv - YouTube

Brothers,

Islam not allow to kill any human, even that human is kafir or so!
so i absolutely dont believe that Islam allow to kill someone in the name of Religion!

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم.
( لا إكراه في الدين قد تبين الرشد من الغي فمن يكفر بالطاغوت ويؤمن بالله فقد استمسك بالعروة الوثقى لا انفصام لها والله سميع عليم ( 256 ) )

Allah said it.

There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error.

If we Muslim don't follow the wisdom of Allah we will end in hell no doubt.

Ahmadi or Sunni or Shiite every one of us has never decided which one is the right path I came to this life from a couple Shiite then I inherited their believe. if my believe was good then I'm lucky if it is not then I doomed and this is right for every human being. no one what so ever has the right to choose for me.

If you think your religion is right and mine is wrong that way of thinking it is wrong by itself because I can prove you 100 time that yours is wrong.

the best way is that every one of us respect the choice of the others this way we will live in peace help each other to build our countries.

the worst muslims are whhabis and selefis not because they are following their wahhabi or selefi it's because they try to force their views by violence.

these people offend our religion our nations our cultures it's the responsibility for all the muslims clerics to refuse these people and boycott them if they don't stop their none sense.

Brother,

I abslutly disagree with your views for wahabis or Selfis, if this is so, then i found millions of shia Muslims in Arab countries, and i also know what problems, Suni Muslims facing Iran and Iraq.