Pakistan's acquisition of the U-214

[Myth_buster_1]

complete silence my friend

Germans and PN are ready to sign the deal, the only hurdle is zardari aka 10%, i am sure with so much awareness in media and awaam zardari cant do this so openly.. however he would love to full his pocket for the french favor.

 

[graphican]

Germans and PN are ready to sign the deal, the only hurdle is zardari aka 10%, i am sure with so much awareness in media and awaam zardari cant do this so openly.. however he would love to full his pocket for the french favor.

I feel Zardari is about to loose his grounds. He has started screaming "bachao bachao" and he would not try to do something huge that could generate another tide against him. If we can make this matter more public, couple of peaceful street protests and few sessions of discussion in the media about it, then it would result in the favor of Pakistan Inshallah. After all 10.1% kitne din baki reh sakta hai. We all are bound to die but this country, this nation and the ummah will last and Inshallah Forever. How hard is it to understand? How much desire of "more" can one have? He cannot eat Gold, Diamonds and precious jewels that he is collecting like mads. Is everybody around him like him? Is there no body who could council him? that Red-Beard Molvi, the wazeer-e-mazhabi-amoor? Should we make a delegation and try to convince him? Lets do something instead of writing forum posts.

Is there some hand ready to join me on that? Lets arrange a peaceful demonstration in Islamabad or Lahore or Karachi!

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Is there some hand ready to join me on that? Lets arrange a peaceful demonstration in Islamabad or Lahore or Karachi!

how about we get 100 or so defence.pk members to join us in islamabad blue area and demonstrate that Zardari should sign the deal in favor of PN which is "type-214"... and we pass around leaflets in Islamabad giving awareness to awam that Type-214 is the only choice and zardari is trying to full his pocket from the frech deal which is way inferior to german boats..

 

[Patriot]

and get your *** locked up.




just kidding.

 

[ejaz007]

and get your *** locked up.




just kidding.

You are kidding but once you go to Islamabad for demonstration I assure you government will not be kidding. Do you want us to end behind bars. Who is going to pay for our bail? We shall most likely be booked under anti terrorism act. You know it is terrorism to demonstrate against Mr. Zardari.

 

[SBD-3]

You are kidding but once you go to Islamabad for demonstration I assure you government will not be kidding. Do you want us to end behind bars. Who is going to pay for our bail? We shall most likely be booked under anti terrorism act. You know it is terrorism to demonstrate against Mr. Zardari.

lols yeah wisdom at last but lets look at from another angle
.Look German deal is in final process and suddenly the french come in play? why? is it only zardari looking to get 10% or...............remembered the Nuke deal with French? with marlin out of plans and scorpion sub scrapped, we may give the french another go to fill their coffers, we might just ask them for the big fish...........barracuda..................if they say yes go on................... and if no......................German deal is always intact. IMHO PN has a great maneuvering chance to get Barracuda...........otherwise we are always going for U boats don't we

 

[Ghazy]

I think so it will be a good idea to have 2 Agosta90 and save some money and after 2015 we could go for nuke submarine. Agosta 90 is not much inferior to Scorpene and it will be made in Pakistan giving more experience to our labour also.

 

[mughaljee]

Brothers,
Please clear this, deal is under way still or Off.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

I think so it will be a good idea to have 2 Agosta90 and save some money and after 2015 we could go for nuke submarine. Agosta 90 is not much inferior to Scorpene and it will be made in Pakistan giving more experience to our labour also.

let me tell you... agosta-90 was another frenchi trick! the government was PPP.. PN got a inferior sub (class) from the market. IMO PN should have acquired type-209/1400 back in 1990s and eventually upgrade them with AIP.. agosta-90 frame design is about 40 years old. and btw scorpene is way superior then A-90b.

 

[sancho]

I think so it will be a good idea to have 2 Agosta90 and save some money and after 2015 we could go for nuke submarine. Agosta 90 is not much inferior to Scorpene and it will be made in Pakistan giving more experience to our labour also.

As far as I know Nuclear subs can't be sold just like that, that's why India "leased" those from Russia and Brazil might get a hull and assistance in developing an own nuclear propulsion but can't get it from other nations.
I searched the net for more infos about the Scorpene class and found out that it they are based on a French nuclear sub and that it is possible to integrate a small nuclear powerplant into it. If that is true, that must be the real reason why IN took Scorpene instead of better U214 subs, which is an interesting point now that IN has showed INS Arihant with such an nuclear powerplant.
Brazil seems to have the same reasons why they didn't go for German subs and will take French:

Brazilian Nuclear-Powered Submarine Program : Marport

The two projects are not comparable
The German proposal was only for the construction of two conventional submarines (diesel-electric propulsion), without the evolution to a nuclear-powered submarine, because Germany does not produce any (it has zero percent of this market). Also there would have been some transfer of technology, design, and maintenance work, but only for construction purposes, and in a limited way.

The French proposal, from DCNS, includes the construction in Brazil of four Scorpène conventional submarines, which will allow the country to develop a submarine with nuclear propulsion, and it includes the transfer of all related technologies, not only for construction of the boats but also for the entire project, including the combat systems. The proposal also includes the design and construction of a site dedicated to the manufacture of nuclear-propelled submarines (and conventional ones as well) and a new naval base able to house them. The nuclear part of submarine is fully national, developed by the Brazilian Navy in a research and development program started in the 1970s.

Also interesting for PN and the U214 procurement could be this:

Restrictions on maintenance
Germany does not transfer technology for the design or maintenance of submarines. In the construction of the current submarines that Brazil operates (IKL-209), the forward section (bow), which houses the tubes for launching torpedoes, was manufactured in Germany and the maintenance of combat systems (sonar, system management fire, etc.) can be made only with the presence of German technicians.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

As far as I know Nuclear subs can't be sold just like that, that's why India "leased" those from Russia and Brazil might get a hull and assistance in developing an own nuclear propulsion but can't get it from other nations.
I searched the net for more infos about the Scorpene class and found out that it they are based on a French nuclear sub and that it is possible to integrate a small nuclear powerplant into it. If that is true, that must be the real reason why IN took Scorpene instead of better U214 subs, which is an interesting point now that IN has showed INS Arihant with such an nuclear powerplant.
Brazil seems to have the same reasons why they didn't go for German subs and will take French:

nuclear powered scorpene? lol.. thats so unrealistic and so not practical. you can not simply take away any power plant and replace it like you are playing with lego.. Scorpene deal has more to do with political then military gain. India probably wants to maintain stronger military ties with france and probably underestimated german approval of their latest sub for pakistan. and btw that thing of powering scorpene with nuclear plant is just laughable.. IMO nuclear plant is going to take almost half of the space...

Brazilian Nuclear-Powered Submarine Program : Marport
Also interesting for PN and the U214 procurement could be this:

show me a credibel news which mentions this about pak type-214 deal... because their is no such thing.. and infact where as with french previously where we build only one on our own without any assistance the germans will provide us with full TOT so that we can build all 3 of them at home and the fallow on orders..
so dont worry about us.. thanks for you concern btw..

 

[Ghazy]

I still feel that Pakistan should build Agosta 90 instead of buying any other. Our economy is not in such condition that we can afford $1.5 billion. Look if we make A-90b then we will be saving atleast $700 million ( price of 45 JF-17). With that money+other $700 million in 2015 (inshallah economy will be in better condition) we could shop better either from France or Germany or even China (Yuan class or may be some other by that time).

 

[MZUBAIR]

I still feel that Pakistan should build Agosta 90 instead of buying any other. Our economy is not in such condition that we can afford $1.5 billion. Look if we make A-90b then we will be saving atleast $700 million ( price of 45 JF-17). With that money+other $700 million in 2015 (inshallah economy will be in better condition) we could shop better either from France or Germany or even China (Yuan class or may be some other by that time).

Dear, we are waiting for new sub for PN from last 5 years or so.
PN always look to counter IN and at the moment we shld get U-214 after looking IN procurments (Nuclear and scorpian subs). we despertely need that. We hav already saved 1.5 billion for this deal. The money is already stored for new sub deals.

Dont worry abt economy...its rising very slowly after the end of terrorism.

 

[Ghazy]

Why we only compete India in their military not in Economy? Their Economy is growing at 6-7% our is just 2-3%. Indian economy is stable they can afford, our is not stable we can't. We need to first strenghten our economy then we could spend $$$ anywhere. Because this arm race is never going to end and if we follow this arm race our economy is never going to settle. Let take the example of Brazil, they waited until their economy got better and now we see Rafales offered to Brazil or France-Brazil submarine program and so on. When they had not strong economy they had aircrafts like Tucano for attack role (still present but will be in trainer role soon) but now things are changing. In early1960s we were growing 3 times faster than India but things changed. We were in arm race then, we are in arm race now.
Its my opinion every one has his own opinion and we should respect each other's because we both are thinking for better Pakistan. Hope someone would agree with me.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

I still feel that Pakistan should build Agosta 90 instead of buying any other. Our economy is not in such condition that we can afford $1.5 billion. Look if we make A-90b then we will be saving atleast $700 million ( price of 45 JF-17). With that money+other $700 million in 2015 (inshallah economy will be in better condition) we could shop better either from France or Germany or even China (Yuan class or may be some other by that time).

if pakistan wants to save money then its better if they dont even build agostas which is only as good as upgraded type-209..
only german u-boats are the best non-nuclear subs in the world and their is no way why pakistan shouldnt get them.. cutting defence budget by large margin is no the solution to recover your economy! then we will be only doing money fi-lty politians a favor.