Pakistani officials furious over ‘Homeland’

[Foggy_Bottom]

You are under the misapprehension that we despise anything American; we don't....not by a long shot.

What we do not appreciate are the inherently ill-thought out US Foreign Policy gaffes which usually involve destabilizing entire regions in the pursuit of whatever objectives the US Administration has thought up; Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Iran etc. are testament to that.

We applaud the Jeffersonian precepts of Non-Interventionism and we believe that in them lies your and most of all our salvation because this gung-ho attitude of invading countries, destabilizing entire regions and then looking incredulous when the ensuing vacuum creates terrorist groups like the ISIS, the TTP, the UIM etc., needs a revisit by whosoever thinks up foreign policy in the US Administration.

At any rate if humanitarian aid was given to arm-twist Pakistan and Pakistanis into subservience than by all means keep it.

Agreed to a good extent.

Allow me to give our version of the big picture. It all starts with- if we just don't get drawn into these conflicts where our national security is at risk.

Americans feel that we are not the destabilising force, its these extremists. We are the good guys, we are guys you call to help when you have genocides taking place, when dictators are killing the people by the hundreds of thousands, we are the guys that the world sees to help in a famine, flood or earthquake, help with giving aid to the poor nations, help in promoting human rights, women rights, the marginalized and the poor .

Now there is also truth to the fact that when you have so much real estate( worldwide) as a part of being a Superpower, we will overstep the boundaries at times. We are not perfect!

Had there been no 911, there would be no American presence in your region. We don't want to pick a beef with anyone, man.

 

[Armstrong]

I appreciate the points which you have made and I won't defend the 'gaffes' of US foreign policy which has been a complete failure in the last two presidents' terms.

But what i fail to understand is the political rhetoric in pak and to some extent in india as well. When things go down, US is the culprit with zero credit to us when things turn out good. And In a visit to the latter country I have seen astounding things eg the American Library being flooded with college students one day and then stone pelting the very next day ( in India ). I found it to be totally bizarre.

I've had American friends visit Pakistan and be markedly surprised by our hospitality. I myself have been to the US and I found it a wonderful country with wonderful people; in fact I have the utmost of respect for Abraham Lincoln and if there is one man that I respect and admire as much as Our Father - M.A Jinnah, its the 16th US President.

So far as anger against the US is concerned; Yes there are instances of deep anger at the US when something like the Salala Incidents happens etc. but there is a much more anger and contempt for the Pakistani Government in their failure to assert themselves in an International Context.

USAID projects are appreciated in Pakistan at least by those who've benefited from them; Fullbright Scholarships are just one example.

But there is a deep sense of shame in Pakistan on the thought of accepting US aid or aid from any Nation because we - the Public - can't stomach the thought that our incompetent, corrupt and sometimes utterly moronic leaders have led the country to a virtual economic meltdown and we're reduced to accepting charity from others.

It certainly doesn't help that when the said aid is used to blackmail us and aphorisms like 'beggars can't be choosers' are thrown about. That only adds fuel to the fire; the fire being our 'shame' in accepting aid to begin with.

At any rate I think both the Pakistani and the US Administration has realized that this utter disconnect between our two nations which has been so markedly highlighted during the past 10-13 years of the War on Terror being fought in Afghanistan has been a huge stumbling block and more attempts are being made to assuage and accommodate each other's concerns instead of brushing them aside nonchalantly.

 

[OrionHunter]

Hollywood portrays Pakistan as some Moroccan desert town or some Indian slum.

So you bring India here again? You talk as though Pakistan is the France of South Asia!!! Pissed off, eh buddy? It's what the world thinks of Pakistan! You need to get your act together to show Pakistan in better light. By the way, have you ventured into the by lanes of Karachi?

Nuff said.

 

[Developereo]

The point being ISI aids and assists Taliban and AQ because they are hard cultivated assets of ISI handlers...

The point is that these assets are not an end in themselves; they are means to an end.

Which begs the question, what is that end?

Answer: Pakistan's commitment to make sure Afghanistan doesn't become a staging ground for anti-Pakistan activities.

The ISI doesn't support these groups because they hate women or because they espouse certain ideologies. They are merely tools, in the same way that India used LTTE or the US used Contras. The difference is that ISI didn't have as much control over their assets as they should have.

 

[Sam Manekshaw]

I am watching S01E07 ....good series.

 

[Armstrong]

Agreed to a good extent.

Allow me to give our version of the big picture. It all starts with- if we just don't get drawn into these conflicts where our national security is at risk.

Americans feel that we are not the destabilising force, its these extremists. We are the good guys, we are guys you call to help when you have genocides taking place, when dictators are killing the people by the hundreds of thousands, we are the guys that the world sees to help in a famine, flood or earthquake, help with giving aid to the poor nations, help in promoting human rights, women rights, the marginalized and the poor .

Now there is also truth to the fact that when you have so much real estate( worldwide) as a part of being a Superpower, we will overstep the boundaries at times. We are not perfect!

Had there been no 911, there would be no American presence in your region. We don't want to pick a beef with anyone, man.

I understand where you're coming from but this is exactly the kind of disconnect I was alluding to in my other post. We both need to appreciate the gravity of each other's situations, concerns and apprehension so that common ground can be found to achieve the greater good.

I believe that if this previous decade has taught us something is that this disconnect may fuel egos but it does nothing so far as solving our problems are concerned.

Pakistan has learned that intervening in neighboring states in whatever context and because of whatever reasons is not a good idea irrespective of what you think is happening to you from there or happened to you in the past. Allowing fanaticism to flourish on our lands thinking that in the present its not harming us is definitely not a good idea because the future may always pay for the mistakes of the present.

The US too has learned that to go in with all their guns blazing may work in a Chuck Norris movie but it doesn't work in the real world. And that accommodating the concerns of different stakeholders to achieve a compromise solution is much better than alienating important stakeholders and ending up with a counterproductive result in end.

I believe that both of our countries are wiser after these events and I foresee a move away from our present insecure and transactional relationship to something a lot more healthy. But its going to take time.

 

[Icewolf]

So you bring India here again? You talk as though Pakistan is the France of South Asia!!! Pissed off, eh buddy? It's what the world thinks of Pakistan! You need to get your act together to show Pakistan in better light. By the way, have you ventured into the by lanes of Karachi?

Nuff said.

Buddy don't get your panties in a knot.
Pakistan is not world known for slums.

 

[OrionHunter]

Buddy don't get your panties in a knot.
Pakistan is not world known for slums.

You've got the wrong end of the tail, dude. I wasn't discussing slums at all! It was about terrorism and what the world thinks of you! And that's far from flattering!

 

[surya kiran]

Buddy don't get your panties in a knot.
Pakistan is not world known for slums.

@waz @Jungibaaz @Oscar feel free to delete this post, if you think its going off topic. But, please do edit mr Icewolf post also for bringing India into this.

Since, you brought it up. Enjoy

Orangi Town as per UNDP. Which the resident Ostrich Pseudo Economist Haq, so desperately tried defending in his blog.
4. Orangi Town, Pakistan - 1.8 Million - TheRichest
5 Biggest Slums in the World
and ofcourse UNDP reports which are as follows. Now educate yourself. In fact, it is the most slummy country as per the below demographic released by UNDP

 

[That Guy]

Homeland (TV Series 2011– ) - IMDb

Rating: 8,5

It's pretty popular.

It's also quite xenophobic, and Islamophobic. It's portrayal of Pakistan is one thing, but it suggests that every Muslim is suspect. If there is a rich Muslim, he's guilty of funding terrorists; if there is a western Muslim, he's probably guilty of being a sleeper agent; if there is poor Muslim, he's guilty of joining terrorist outfits; if there is Muslim woman, she's probably oppressed in some form or another.

Considering Homeland's background of being adopted from an Israeli show, no one should be surprised it is a hit in the US and caters to xenophobes.

 

[Icewolf]

@waz @Jungibaaz @Oscar feel free to delete this post, if you think its going off topic. But, please do edit mr Icewolf post also for bringing India into this.

Since, you brought it up. Enjoy

Orangi Town as per UNDP. Which the resident Ostrich Pseudo Economist Haq, so desperately tried defending in his blog.
4. Orangi Town, Pakistan - 1.8 Million - TheRichest
5 Biggest Slums in the World
and ofcourse UNDP reports which are as follows. Now educate yourself. In fact, it is the most slummy country as per the below demographic released by UNDP

View attachment 179293

Did I debate about the intensity of slums in India or Pakistan?
I just said Hollywood portrays All of Pakistan as some Indian slum.

Huge difference between slum culture in South Asian countries.

 

[That Guy]

Agreed to a good extent.

Allow me to give our version of the big picture. It all starts with- if we just don't get drawn into these conflicts where our national security is at risk.

Americans feel that we are not the destabilising force, its these extremists. We are the good guys, we are guys you call to help when you have genocides taking place, when dictators are killing the people by the hundreds of thousands, we are the guys that the world sees to help in a famine, flood or earthquake, help with giving aid to the poor nations, help in promoting human rights, women rights, the marginalized and the poor .

Now there is also truth to the fact that when you have so much real estate( worldwide) as a part of being a Superpower, we will overstep the boundaries at times. We are not perfect!

Had there been no 911, there would be no American presence in your region. We don't want to pick a beef with anyone, man.

Actually, there was already US presence in the region through military bases and allied nations, long before 9/11. One more reason to doubt your claim of being a former state department employee.

Everything else you've mentioned is pretty much common sense. I don't know why that deserves a positive rating, but hey, it's sandy's decision and I can respect that.

 

[Providence]

Actually, there was already US presence in the region through military bases and allied nations, long before 9/11. One more reason to doubt your claim of being a former state department employee.

Everything else you've mentioned is pretty much common sense. I don't know why that deserves a positive rating, but hey, it's sandy's decision and I can respect that.

Where might I ask you saw american boots on the ground ? Are u suggesting the symbolic presence in some middle-eastern country ?

 

[surya kiran]

Did I debate about the intensity of slums in India or Pakistan?
I just said Hollywood portrays All of Pakistan as some Indian slum.

Huge difference between slum culture in South Asian countries.

The point being, there was no need to bring India into the discussion. If you had said Pakistani slum, there would not have been any replies from Indians.

 

[Armstrong]

@waz @Jungibaaz @Oscar feel free to delete this post, if you think its going off topic. But, please do edit mr Icewolf post also for bringing India into this.

Since, you brought it up. Enjoy

Orangi Town as per UNDP. Which the resident Ostrich Pseudo Economist Haq, so desperately tried defending in his blog.
4. Orangi Town, Pakistan - 1.8 Million - TheRichest
5 Biggest Slums in the World
and ofcourse UNDP reports which are as follows. Now educate yourself. In fact, it is the most slummy country as per the below demographic released by UNDP

View attachment 179293

Can I get a link for this demographic map ?

Because the above two links don't mention the UNDP quoting Orangi Town as the largest slum in Asia; they are the author's own articles with a single quote from the UN rapporteur that has no mention of Orangi Town.