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Pakistani officials furious over ‘Homeland’

And it has nothing to do with the actual role the ISI has played in supporting terror groups who have been killing US soldiers in Afghanistan and have been found to be behind high-profile terror attacks like 26/11?

I'd argue the fact OBL being found in Pakistan opened the eyes of many in the West who in the past had been ignorant of what was going on vis a vis state sponsored terrorism and Pakistan.

Whatever way you try to spin this you cannot ignore that the perception of the ISI as a rouge organisation is, in some way, rooted in reality. We can argue the degree to which this is true but the fact remains.

Pakistani reality is their own, almost no one else can see it that way. Which is why Pakistanis simply don't understand any other portrayal. All the arguments here have been about how the actual image of Islamabad is or the accents/etc (which is irrelevant to the main story), almost nothing on the substance of the story that Pakistan is in deep collusion with the taliban/other terrorist groups. Regardless of how Pakistanis see that support or defend it, it would be very foolish to expect Americans or most others to see it that way.

Article on the Homeland-Pakistan storyline:


US-Pakistan-ISI: The Faustian chronicles

WASHINGTON: The United States has broken off diplomatic ties with Pakistan following a terrorist attack by the ISI-backed Haqqani group on the American Embassy in Islamabad in which some 40 American diplomats and personnel were killed. All American diplomatic personnel have been evacuated from Islamabad and the US President has ordered the nuclear-armed Fifth Fleet towards Karachi.

If you sat bolt upright and spilled coffee on reading the para above, you haven't been watching the television drama Homeland's Season 4, now into its 11th episode. After spending three seasons in the middle-east, Homeland, featuring a psychotic female CIA operative in the lead, has moved into Pakistan, often portraying the frayed US-Pakistan ties with startling accuracy, and as evident from this lead, with some hyperbole.

Pakistan's worthless, paranoid existence, its dalliance with terrorists groups, including its coddling of the Haqqani Group (who attack the US Embassy after inside information leaked by the compromised husband of the US ambassador), its spy agency ISI's treachery and double-dealing, Washington's own bumbling inter-agency fights, all feature in the action drama that has even spookdom — among nearly two million first time US viewers — in thrall.

But the constant feeling that courses through the hit series is the utter contempt and revulsion for Pakistan in Washington. "It's not even a real country. It's a fucking acronym!" sneers the CIA chief, calling Pakistan a "shithole" when Carrie Mathison, his principal agent, asks to be posted to Islamabad as station chief "They hate us. All they want is to stab us in the back," he spits out another time. In another episode, when a colleague tells Carrie the information came from the ISI, she snaps, "I don't trust the fuckers."

Incidentally, the two-faced, double-dealing ISI officer in the drama is played by the Indian actress Nimrat Kaur, who acted as a homemaker in The Lunchbox. In fact, most Pakistani principals in the serial are played by Indians or Brit-Asians. The serial was shot in South Africa.

So how close to reality is Homeland? The broad themes are all well-known and oft-recited in Washington: Pakistan's fostering of terrorism, ISI's double-dealing, the centrality of the army and intelligence in Pakistan, the ineffectualness of its democracy, etc. Where the series gets it right is the nitty-gritty, including drone attacks, suicide bombings, and a street shooting escapade that is redolent of the Raymond Davis episode.

Developed by the Israeli writer-director Gideon Raff, Homeland's screenplay is crafted by a team of experienced American writers. The serial's maker, Showtime, ostensibly hired former CIA operatives as consultants. Two former CIA agents, who between them boast of 60 years of operational experience and served as station chiefs in seven countries, reviewed the Season 4 finale in the Daily Beast last week and concluded that it has been able to "accurately present the mission, intensity, pace, contradictions and complexity of a CIA station."

Maintaining that the CIA protagonists portrayed in the serial "rings true to those us who have been there," the agents, Chuck Cogan and John MacGaffin, also underlined the difficulties in the fictional Islamabad station chief Carrie Mathison's attempts at dealing "a duplicitous host government and liaison service whose real interests and intent differs from hers."

"In reality, there is no such thing as a 'friendly' intelligence service. ISI, however, is the poster child for 'duplicitous,'" they added.

While Pakistan gets trashed in Homeland, in reality, the US approach to Pakistan and its intelligence agency, far from being castigatory or punitive, is feckless to the point of embarrassing. Despite repeatedly and even publicly admonishing Pakistan for supporting terror groups, and even citing ISI hand in the Mumbai attacks and for funneling money into the US political system (through the Kashmiri separatist Ghulam Nabi Fai), Washington has done little to reign in the terror-backing spy outfit and its proteges. This is evident given the ease with which Hafiz Saeed and now Zaki-ur Rehman Lakhvi have been protected by the Pakistani establishment.

In fact, according to ProPublica, former Pakistani army chief Ashfaq Kayani bluntly rejected the request of his American interlocutors to divest Lakhvi of his cellphone in prison. As if to rub it in, they even allowed him conjugal visits in jail through which he fathered a child, say Indian sources familiar with the developments, adding, with a degree of envy, that the "Pakistanis run rings around Americans." The Indian side also believes that successive Pakistani Army chiefs have made fools of Americans by alternately adopting an attitude of complete submission or threatening a reckless suicide scenario.

Every Pakistani general is greeted by Washington as a liberal, westernized, professional soldier, just because he plays golf or smokes or has pet dogs, one Indian official said in a recent conversation, recalling the glowing, credulous profiles in the US media that accompanied the ascension of Musharraf and Kayani. Every Pakistani general is a jihadi because it is written into their DNA and their motto Iman, Taqwa, Jihad fi Sabilillah, the official added bleakly.

It was against this background that the Indian side closely watched the visit last month of Pakistan's new army chief Gen Raheel Sharif, once again hailed by Pakistani apologists as a man who would take on terrorists. It was an unusual visit by any standard, lasting more than two weeks. Prefaced by ratcheted up coverage in the Pakistan media of an imminent ISIS (Islamic State) takeover of the country (and "scarily," its nukes), the trip was aimed ostensibly at repairing damaged relations with the US, and more importantly to extract money from Uncle Sam, long time patron of its informally designated terrorist client state on whom it has already splurged $ 28 billion sine 9/11.

The visit, which lasted the entire second half of November, got even more mysterious when after a few pro-forma meetings in Washington, a Pentagon ceremony to receive one of those feel-good medals the US hangs on its favored third world generals, a visit to the Central Command in Miami, and an engagement in the Bay Area, Sharif disappeared from view. He didn't go back home, and he dispensed with official protocol in America. The scuttlebutt was he was visiting a sibling or son in the Chicago area.

When he surfaced again at the end of the month, it was for an unusual weekend meeting with Secretary of State John Kerry, a long time patron saint of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. In an engagement that effectively recognized the military as the de facto power in the country, Kerry, without a trace of irony, praised the Pakistani army as a "truly binding force," forgetting, perhaps in a senior moment, that the force actually lost half the country in 1971.

Co-author of a legislation that lavished billions of dollars on Pakistan throughout the years the country fostered terrorist groups, often killing US soldiers in Afghanistan, Kerry evokes mixed feelings among Indian interlocutors. On surface, he is affable and charming with Indian officials and speaks highly of India (he's headed for the Vibrant Gujarat summit in January). But his inexplicable support for Pakistan even when it is brazenly using terrorism as a policy instrument according to the administration's own insiders is something that baffles Indian officials, none of whom would speak on record.

In fact, Kerry's reputation as an apologist for Pakistan is vividly chronicled even in the opening title sequence of Homeland. Whereas Hillary Clinton is shown with her famous "You can't keep snakes in your backyard and expect them to only bite your neighbors," admonition of Pakistan, Kerry is shown defending the country, saying "there are things that Pakistan has done, as complicated as this relationship is."

In the days following the Kerry-Raheel meeting, it became evident that there are still things that Kerry and his ilk in Washington hope Pakistan will do, as complicated as this relationship is, in return of course for more life-giving aid, sustenance, and military hardware. Within days of Sharif's return to Pakistan, its military took out two prominent terrorists, including al-Qaida fugitive Adnan el-Shukrijumah (who had been on the lam for more than a decade) and Umar Farooq. In return, the US ordered the release of Latif Mehsud, the Pakistan Taliban's No 2 from a military prison in Afghanistan. Intelligence circles suspect the attack in the Army School in Peshawar is linked to this.

As far as the Indian side is concerned, all this is part of a continuing faustian bargain between US and Pakistan that will have no winners, only losers. The Pakistani DNA cannot be changed, even though the current situation offers a golden opportunity to change course. "External and internal shocks are often pivotal turning points encouraging countries to reorient their national security strategies," says Prof. T.V.Paul, an international relations scholar at McGill University and author of The Warrior State: Pakistan in the contemporary world. "But) it is hard to predict where this will lead, for an elite known for missing opportunities for change due to their narrow tactical as opposed to progressive vision on the future of the country."

Most US analysts too hold out bleak prospects of Pakistan revisiting its "good-terrorists-bad terrorists" policy. One exception: CNN's Peter Bergen, who described the Peshawar school attack as Pakistan's 9/11, recited the entire Pakistani military narrative of fighting terrorism, and wrote that "Today the Pakistani military understands that the Frankenstein that it helped to create must now be killed."

But Pakistan's own analysts were scoffing at the idea this would happen. "Pakistan's greatest enemy is denial," cautioned the country's former ambassador to US Hussain Haqqani, maintaining that the establishment, set in its ways, will not change easily. That became evident soon enough when it sprang 26/11 planner Zaki-ur Rehman from prison (ostensibly on bail), prompting Christine Fair, a Pakistan expert at Georgetown University, to note that even seasoned analyst such as Peter Bergen ''embrace rhetoric as fact.''

"Alas, the (Peshawar) attack — no matter how heinous — will not motivate Pakistan to abandon its long-held reliance upon Islamist militant groups," wrote Fair, reckoning that, "many tens of thousands of Pakistanis will die long before the army gives up its jihad habit." Under the headline "Crucible of terror threatening the world: How the future of Pakistan is getting darker," Michael Burleigh had this to note in the Daily Mail: "The venal political class in Pakistan has united in its revulsion at this latest atrocity, but by next week they'll be back to their old ways." It didn't take so long. Less than 48 hours elapsed between the Peshawar bombing, Lakhvi's release, and his temporary re-incarceration after a mostly Indian outcry.

US-Pakistan-ISI: The Faustian chronicles - The Times of India
 
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Pakistanis simply don't understand any other portrayal

You're missing the point.

All sides in this situation have been complicit in providing support and/or refuge to questionable elements. The TTP finds easy refuge across the border in NATO-controlled Afghanistan. American military officials have taken note of Indian involvement in supporting questionable groups in Afghanistan.

The point we are making is that the American media portrayal paints a black-and-white picture of all good guys v/s all evil guys. This is reminiscent of old movies where the Americans were shown as the knights in shining armor and the Russians (or Chinese) as shifty-eyed evil villains.

Modern movies shy away from such simplistic themes and tend to show a more balanced view. But not so when it comes to Pakistan.

.............Think Why?

That's a long discussion and would probably take us off-topic.
There are fingers pointing in all directions, all with some degree of justification.
 
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You're missing the point.

All sides in this situation have been complicit in providing support and/or refuge to questionable elements. The TTP finds easy refuge across the border in NATO-controlled Afghanistan. American military officials have taken note of Indian involvement in supporting questionable groups in Afghanistan.

The point we are making is that the American media portrayal paints a black-and-white picture of all good guys v/s all evil guys. This is reminiscent of old movies where the Americans were shown as the knights in shining armor and the Russians (or Chinese) as shifty-eyed evil villains.

Modern movies shy away from such simplistic themes and tend to show a more balanced view. But not so when it comes to Pakistan.

Americans see it from their viewpoint, something that Pakistanis simply do not appreciate. You can see the spin put on even the OBL (by Pakistan) case, fine Pakistan has to do what it has to do but expecting others to see it from your viewpoint (which usually boggles the imagination of most of the world) is silly. Your own point on "American military officials taking note of Indian involvement in supporting questionable groups" is a good example. There have been almost no statements from anyone explicitly suggesting that, yet you highlight that while leaving aside countless explicit statements suggesting Pakistan's involvement both in Afghanistan & in terrorism elsewhere.

This is a television series, a lot of liberties get taken but the essence of the story remains unquestioned (portrayal of India/Indians, while more benign is not exactly the same as reality). The point here is not the story itself but how Pakistan has pretty much been transformed into an "enemy" state in American eyes. That is the reality that many Pakistanis simply don't want to face up to.
 
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Americans see it from their viewpoint,

Of course the American media would present the American point of view, especially a non-documentary which aims to maximize viewership, but my comment was to contrast this with the Cold War portrayals.

Movies from the Cold War era show a good vs evil contrast of the Americans v/s the Soviets, but that view matured into a more realistic and balanced view over time. Reagan's characterization of the USSR as the "evil empire" is now seen as an amusing anachronism, saying more about his state of mind and the generational gap than about the USSR itself.

Most people now view the conflict as one of competing national interests, with both sides using questionable means, often with questionable motives. It is seen more as a "us v/s them" than a "good v/s evil" scenario.

That level of balance and maturity eludes the depiction of the war in Afghanistan where, contrary to the Western media narrative, all sides use questionable means for questionable motives. This, too, is a battle of competing national interests, not good v/s evil, but the conflict is ongoing and it is premature to expect balance in the media wars.

The point here is not the story itself but how Pakistan has pretty much been transformed into an "enemy" state in American eyes. That is the reality that many Pakistanis simply don't want to face up to.

On the contrary, as I mentioned before, the demonization of Pakistan is a conscious and explicit goal in the media space. There are several conflicts afoot -- including the geopolitical ones in the region -- and Pakistan is not always aligned with American interests, so it is natural that it would be portrayed as an obstacle to American plans.
 
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Homeland seems like a show I would enjoy watching if it didn't reek of pro government, pro torture, war on terror propaganda. And of course like everything else here it is zionist produced
 
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There are a couple parts to this from my perspective.

NO country would like to be shown in a bad light as this series does. And for that and what it's worth I apologize to the Pakistanis.

Secondly, we allow such series around as a part of our freedoms. I'd ask you imagine a movie made in Pakistan showing India both being attacked and Pakistan coming out as victorious. Surely it would be very popular within Pakistan, if it were to be well made.

Pakistan unfortunately is looked at very poorly by our citizens, especially after OBL was found there. Many do not have the opportunity to experience what I did when I was among pakistanis in Pakistan.

Trust me, we in the diplomatic corps are not fans of such Hollywood movies that only make our life difficult, including the one about North Korea.
 
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By Jamie Schram

homeland__season_4__103094995-e1419655969110.jpg

Mandy Patinkin plays former CIA honcho Saul Berenson during a tight spot of season four of "Homeland."

December 27, 2014 | 12:03am

Claire Danes is lucky no Emmy voters live in Islamabad.

Pakistani officials are furious with Showtime after watching the fourth season of its hit show “Homeland,” which they say portrays their country as an ugly, ignorant, terror-plagued “hellhole.”

The diplomats took copious notes of every slight while binge-watching all 12 episodes — including the lack of greenery in the depiction of the nation’s capital, Islamabad.

They complained directly to producers of the Emmy-winning drama, but their gripes fell on deaf ears, Pakistani sources said.

“Maligning a country that has been a close partner and ally of the US . . . is a disservice not only to the security interests of the US but also to the people of the US,” Pakistan Embassy spokesman Nadeem Hotiana told The Post.

One of their beefs is that the show — which stars Danes as CIA Agent Carrie Mathison on assignment in Pakistan — trashed a diplomat’s image of the capital as a bucolic oasis.

“Islamabad is a quiet, picturesque city with beautiful mountains and lush greenery,” one source said. “In ‘Homeland,’ it’s portrayed as a grimy hellhole and war zone where shootouts and bombs go off with dead bodies scattered around. Nothing is further from the truth.”

The cable show’s “Islamabad” scenes were actually filmed in Cape Town, South Africa.
Pakistani diplomats also called out the show’s producers for misrepresenting their language.

“<U>The Pakistani characters portrayed in the show speak English like Americans would,” a source said. “Also, when the characters in the show speak Urdu, the accent is far from the local accent.</U>

“And the connotations of some of the Urdu words that are used are out of place.” The biggest gripe is that the show depicts Pakistan as undemocratic and allied with terrorists.

Do you remember the accent of Pakistani movie Waar? Forget it, have you heard the accent of your english news readers?
 
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Hollywood portrays Pakistan as some Moroccan desert town or some Indian slum.

Homeland should have done even 5 minutes of research on Pak landscape

Giveme an example of one such film wherecthat depicts Indian Slum.Dont drag Indian name in to this.

But why would that be? Why would certain quarters hate Pakistan? What is there for them to hate? Besides the complicity you are implying is of pretty large proportions.


The basic reason for all this propoganda is came from Abbotabad Operation.After that an average Americans opinion about Pakistan twisted entirely.
 
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Giveme an example of one such film wherecthat depicts Indian Slum.Dont drag Indian name in to this.




The basic reason for all this propoganda is came from Abbotabad Operation.After that an average Americans opinion about Pakistan twisted entirely.
See that moron Icewolf, he has no qualms about the light in which his country is shown but will have qualms about how some trees were missing :D
RIP brains...
 
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That's a long discussion and would probably take us off-topic.
There are fingers pointing in all directions, all with some degree of justification.
It won't actually, think about it objectively, Tajiks, hazaras, uzbeks, pashtoons all are muslims, all fought against USSR, legends like Massoud were aided by pakistan, then why did suddenly pakistan have a change of heart to promote haqqani, hekmetryaar and likes and marginalize Massoud, Rabbani, and political groups that represented afghan minorities. How could a secular India be successful in aligning itself with muslim minorities over pakistan which championed itself as a nation aparently built for muslim minorities? How can a state behave in complete anti-thesis to it's own origins and ideological rhetoric....How?
 
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There are a couple parts to this from my perspective.

NO country would like to be shown in a bad light as this series does. And for that and what it's worth I apologize to the Pakistanis.

Secondly, we allow such series around as a part of our freedoms. I'd ask you imagine a movie made in Pakistan showing India both being attacked and Pakistan coming out as victorious. Surely it would be very popular within Pakistan, if it were to be well made.

Pakistan unfortunately is looked at very poorly by our citizens, especially after OBL was found there. Many do not have the opportunity to experience what I did when I was among pakistanis in Pakistan.

Trust me, we in the diplomatic corps are not fans of such Hollywood movies that only make our life difficult, including the one about North Korea.

Blame your Govt. For engaging with a country like that..

As a ex_cia agent said in the article posted by @Bang Galore. "


"In reality, there is no such thing as a 'friendly' intelligence service. ISI, however, is the poster child for 'duplicitous,'" they added.
 
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This is as best a snafu from the production team who obviously don't know about pakistan but there is no need to parade this old chestnut that pakistan is an ally and partner in fight against terror when the same lot claims domestically that US is an evil power who was defeated by your islamic mujahideens in afganisthan.

There is no domestic efforts to improve the US image when we have invested so much in the country, opened so many english libraries in pakistan and whatnot. You guys also don't lose an opportunity to take credit in front of local populace for an outcome which would have been impossible to achieve had there been no co-ordination among our agencies.

Let's see the issues ( agreed part in red )

- it’s portrayed as an ugly, ignorant, terror-plagued “hellhole.” ( You don't want me to count the bombs which goes off now do you ? )
- it’s portrayed as a grimy hellhole and war zone where shootouts and bombs go off with dead bodies scattered around ( your own country men claims about the internal war going on )
- the show depicts Pakistan as undemocratic and allied with terrorists ( there is a clear reason why we still deal with military heads and expectation of something fruitful is there when Raheel shareef visits pakistan and not Nawaz Sharif )
- intelligence agency of Pakistan is complicit in protecting the terrorists at the expense of innocent Pakistani civilians ( OBL was caught after repeated attempts to sabotage the bombing of his hideouts by pak )
- makes it seem that Pakistan
has contempt for Americans and its values and principles. That is not true. ( Wow ! really ? I am literally rolling on the floor )

Our relation is more of a transaction now. We don't have moral high ground when we give military and civilian aid and you don't have moral high ground when you hand us over some of the terrorists.

 
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It won't actually, think about it objectively, Tajiks, hazaras, uzbeks, pashtoons all are muslims, all fought against USSR, legends like Massoud were aided by pakistan, then why did suddenly pakistan have a change of heart to promote haqqani, hekmetryaar and likes and marginalize Massoud, Rabbani, and political groups that represented afghan minorities. How could a secular India be successful in aligning itself with muslim minorities over pakistan which championed itself as a nation aparently built for muslim minorities? How can a state behave in complete anti-thesis to it's own origins and ideological rhetoric....How?

The 'Muslim' issue was only relevant wrt the Soviets. With them gone, everyone was Muslim, so that issue became irrelevant.

It is true that Pakistan had an opportunity to bring NA into the fold but, as I mentioned above, the blame does not lie solely with Pakistan. Opportunities were squandered and mistakes were made by all sides.
 
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The 'Muslim' issue was only relevant wrt the Soviets. With them gone, everyone was Muslim, so that issue became irrelevant.

It is true that Pakistan had an opportunity to bring NA into the fold but, as I mentioned above, the blame does not lie solely with Pakistan. Opportunities were squandered and mistakes were made by all sides.
I have gone around this few hundred times, the only reason I wanted to butt in here is because of your oversimplified view of ISI's reluctance due to Indian Boogeyman Syndrome, completely overglossing the fact that Mullah Omr, jamaat-e-ulema-islami was a complete ISI creation with it's own military advisors embedded in Taliban. (And yes I mean post 1993 Taliban, not Massoud, Dawood, Hekmetyaar, Dostum, Fahim and their lot, but the post mujhahideen creations that was funded during 92-96 period by ISI/Pak Military, the same guys airlifted out during airflift of konduz, the miraculous reappearance of Taliban commander of Kandahar in Lahore within two days of airlift of Konduz..... The point being ISI aids and assists Taliban and AQ because they are hard cultivated assets of ISI handlers...
 
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