Pakistani muslims aren't Arabs or turks (except Arain & Awan).

[TMA]

You are misinformed brother.

Pakistanis can be any ethnic origin, what matters most is that they are born and have lived in Pakistan for generations.

Arains are indeed descendants of Arab tribes who came with the first Muslim armies. This is indisputable.

There are other families who have Turkish, Iranian, Afghan, and Mongol lineages.

We are a nation formed with a unique identity as a result of Muslim conquests and assimilation of immigrants.

It matters not what is the origin, what matters is what they will do for Pakistan.

Yes but are they "pure"? Highly unlikely as they would have intermarried with the "natives" and given this was circa 400/1000 the proportion of Arab blood is much less than the "native" blood.

Exactly what I meant thanks @TMA if hundreds of years ago you came from Arabia or Central Asia would make sense but with mixing with local populace we became what we are today, heck can we compare modern day Arab states in the Gulf and Levent to the Arabia of the yesteryears hell no they are changed so are we, at end of the day we are PAKISTANI

Even many Libyan Arabs and Syrian Arabs are not Arab by blood....my neighbours are Libyans and guess what their ancestry is Turkish...mixed up with others...but they consider themselves Arabs and speak Arabic....the only thing Turkish about them is the tribal/family name....

 

[Asimzranger]

Who even want to be an Arab right now all fighting for inheritance

 

[Yankee-stani]

Even many Libyan Arabs and Syrian Arabs are not Arab by blood....my neighbours are Libyans and guess what their ancestry is Turkish...mixed up with others...but they consider themselves Arabs and speak Arabic....the only thing Turkish about them is the tribal/family name....[/QUOTE]

Arabs are only united by language and religion heck they are even so many dialects that would be impossible for a Lebanese to understand what an Algerian is saying besides most Libyans,Algerians,Tunisians,Morrocans are all mixed up Arab,Turkish,Berber,French, etc

 

[TMA]

Even many Libyan Arabs and Syrian Arabs are not Arab by blood....my neighbours are Libyans and guess what their ancestry is Turkish...mixed up with others...but they consider themselves Arabs and speak Arabic....the only thing Turkish about them is the tribal/family name....

Arabs are only united by language and religion heck they are even so many dialects that would be impossible for a Lebanese to understand what an Algerian is saying besides most Libyans,Algerians,Tunisians,Morrocans are all mixed up Arab,Turkish,Berber,French, etc[/QUOTE]
True....

But the point I was trying to make is, if a Pakistani has "foreign" ancestry...it is likely from centuries ago...and secondly it is even more likely that is mixed up with "native" ancestry, so much so that the "native" component is likely to be bigger than the "foreign" component.

I just feel that some of us "over-represent" the "foreign" ancestry and neglect the "native" ancestry in us....due to some complex about the Vedic and Dharmic religion of MOST of our ancestors had....remember DNA also comes from the mother, even if the name is patrilineal.....

 

[Yankee-stani]

Arabs are only united by language and religion heck they are even so many dialects that would be impossible for a Lebanese to understand what an Algerian is saying besides most Libyans,Algerians,Tunisians,Morrocans are all mixed up Arab,Turkish,Berber,French, etc

True....

But the point I was trying to make is, if a Pakistani has "foreign" ancestry...it is likely from centuries ago...and secondly it is even more likely that is mixed up with "native" ancestry, so much so that the "native" component is likely to be bigger than the "foreign" component.

I just feel that some of us "over-represent" the "foreign" ancestry and neglect the "native" ancestry in us....due to some complex about the Vedic and Dharmic religion of MOST of our ancestors had....remember DNA also comes from the mother, even if the name is patrilineal.....[/QUOTE]


Problem is the Governments after Jinnah and I would say Ayub Khan failed to advance Pakistan as a nation state they just used Pakistan's populace for political brownie points and money people can be confused and damned but hey lets buy Avenfield and apartments in NYC while I drown Pakistan in debt or making our people extreme and stupid but we can use them as cheap labor in the Gulf

 

[TMA]

True....

But the point I was trying to make is, if a Pakistani has "foreign" ancestry...it is likely from centuries ago...and secondly it is even more likely that is mixed up with "native" ancestry, so much so that the "native" component is likely to be bigger than the "foreign" component.

I just feel that some of us "over-represent" the "foreign" ancestry and neglect the "native" ancestry in us....due to some complex about the Vedic and Dharmic religion of MOST of our ancestors had....remember DNA also comes from the mother, even if the name is patrilineal.....

Problem is the Governments after Jinnah and I would say Ayub Khan failed to advance Pakistan as a nation state they just used Pakistan's populace for political brownie points and money people can be confused and damned but hey lets buy Avenfield and apartments in NYC while I drown Pakistan in debt or making our people extreme and stupid but we can use them as cheap labor in the Gulf[/QUOTE]
Yeah..perhaps...but I think this "over-representation" of our "foreign" ancestry predates 1947...it goes back centuries....you see when Arab/Persian/Turkic armies came and various new Muslim ruled States came into being in South Asia..there was in many cases a certain disdain for the "natives" on account of religion, culture, race etc etc etc....there was this "elites" are of Arab/Persian/Turkic blood and only they can hold certain positions and even if a "native" converts, just teach him namaz and roza...you know just the basics....but don't allow him to become a judge.....

Of course this lessened somewhat with Gurkhan e Mughal but still there was this disdain....of course this drastically changed with the advent of the First Empire of Anti-Christ in South Asia...

If it were not for this then men like Sheikh Ali Hujwiri would have converted most of South Asia to Islam, just like North Africa, Levant, Persia, Central Asia and Indonesia/Malaysia. (Of course this is very easy for me to say in retrospect, who knows maybe the Scholars of those times had valid reasons for this "elites" vs "commoners")

Is it not strange that for Muslim dynasties to have ruled for up to 1000 years in South Asia...only about 1/3 of the population is Muslim????

 

[KhalaiMakhlooq]

Even many Libyan Arabs and Syrian Arabs are not Arab by blood....my neighbours are Libyans and guess what their ancestry is Turkish...mixed up with others...but they consider themselves Arabs and speak Arabic....the only thing Turkish about them is the tribal/family name....

Technically speaking your an Arab if you are a 'son' of Abraham through the Ishmael lineage.

If your father lineage isn't Ishmael you wouldn't be Arab.

Speaking Arabic language or following Arab culture or wearing an Arab hat or scarf wouldn't make you a 'son of Abraham through the Ishmael lineage'

Pure blood means your mother and father have unbroken lineage to the same ancient ancestor, usually through same tribe marriage.

If at any point any of your male ancestors was not a 'son of Abraham' you would have a broken chain and hence be non-Arab.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Yes but are they "pure"? Highly unlikely as they would have intermarried with the "natives" and given this was circa 400/1000 the proportion of Arab blood is much less than the "native" blood.


Even many Libyan Arabs and Syrian Arabs are not Arab by blood....my neighbours are Libyans and guess what their ancestry is Turkish...mixed up with others...but they consider themselves Arabs and speak Arabic....the only thing Turkish about them is the tribal/family name....

Right about everything, brother.

However, patrilineal descent is the only line of descent which we recognize as a society.

The proof is in the shajaratul nisab.

 

[Yankee-stani]

Right about everything, brother.

However, patrilineal descent is the only line of descent which we recognize as a society.

The proof is in the shajaratul nisab.

Imran Khan Niazi will be the one to push a full Pakistani identity and stop this larping mentality we have

 

[YeBeWarned]

If Y'all from Africa , why are you Brown ? White ? Yellow ?

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Technically speaking your an Arab if you are a 'son' of Abraham through the Ishmael lineage.

If your father lineage isn't Ishmael you wouldn't be Arab.

If you read the opening chapter of Ar Raheeq al Makhtum (The sealed nectar) by Mubarakpuri, he goes into the various groupings of Arabs of which there are three main categories.

1. Arabs (desert nomads) who lived in the time before Ibrahim and Ismail AS. Some of them settled with Hazrat Hajar and Ismail AS at Makkah and accepted them as their rulers.

2. Arabized Arabs descended from Hazrat Ismail, such as the Quraish.

3. Arabized Arabs who adopted the Arabic language and culture, but who racially and ethnically are not Arabs. Most Arabs (Levant, North Africa, Egypt, Iraq, etc.) outside the Arabian Peninsula states (KSA, UAE, Qatar, Yemen) are Non-Arabs.

 

[TMA]

Technically speaking your an Arab if you are a 'son' of Abraham through the Ishmael lineage.

If your father lineage isn't Ishmael you wouldn't be Arab.

So when Ismael (peace be upon him) married into a people in the Becca, they were non Arabs?

There are two types of Arabs, (maybe three now).
The Old Arabs who originate from Yemen and travelled north. Then you have Arabs from Ismael and his marriages to Arab girl(s) (peace be upon him) do remember that Ismael and Abraham were not Arabs (it is reflected in the grammar of their names). These are sometime known as the assimilated Arabs as they are not the original, of course from this lineage came the most pre-eminent Arab tribe the Quraysh (by that time, his descendants married into Arabs and spoke their language and became Arabs as they also have blood links now).

And since then, you have cultural/lingustic arabs like many of Egypt, Syria and North Africa....who may not have any patrilineal descent to Ismael (peace be upon him).

So what I am trying to say is that Arabs existed before Ismael (Peace be upon him) and were distinct in lineage to Abraham (peace be upon him).Therefore it is possible to still be Arab (even by blood) and not have descent to Abraham (peace be upon him). Technically.

 

[KhalaiMakhlooq]

If Y'all from Africa , why are you Brown ? White ? Yellow ?

The same reason Jews having been living in the middle east for apparently 'forever' and are whiter than snow.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

arabi ko ajami par aur ajami ko arabi par koi foqiat nahi hay...

how much Arbi follow this beautiful saying of Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) is evident from their treatment with south Asian ajmiizz lol

 

[Yankee-stani]

how much Arbi follow this beautiful saying of Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) is evident from their treatment with south Asian ajmiizz lol

Arab-BAKI hate Iran take money hate Assad take money

Pakistani-OKIE DOKIE MY GRANDPA WAS ARAB AND SHIETTT