Pakistan Army negotiating for Turkish Altay Tanks

[帅的一匹]

Is Altay the place Tukic people originated? It's placed in Xingjiang province. Is there any special meaning of Altay in Turkey culture? Altay=阿勒泰

 

[HRK]

Windy all things considered, this looks like fake and made up!

1. It is too heavy,
2. Not sure about the engine,
3. There are better options available and options that make much more sense considering our current inventory and more importantly, future projects/ambitions (like Ukrainian engines and Chinese structure thing)
4. We can always opt for some Turkish sub-systems if we want to.
5. And most importantly, THE GUN!! 120mm? Not so sure about that!!! WHY WOULD WE WANT TO START PRODUCING NEW AMMO!!

Fake and made up is what i think.

@Dazzler @HRK @DESERT FIGHTER @Sulman Badshah @Quwa

Obviously its a fake news as all the reasons you mention in your post, but even if we ignore all those reasons it make no sense to procure Altay Tank as it will require completely new infrastructure and supportive elements not only in Pakistan Army but in Pakistan Railway as well for the transportation purpose plz see read the screnshot

(source)
Secondly as we know Altay is based on westerns philosophy of tank building and in Pakistan we follow Russian philosophy now the question IF we want a tank based on western philosophy even in limited numbers than Korean K-2 black panther is more suitable for us as it weight only 55 tonnes plus there will be no issue of procuring Tank engines from different source and then integrating & testing it

Altay does offer some great technological solutions which we currently lack in all of our tanks so I think we must look for those technological solution for our AK-2 tank this will be more economically beneficial & practical approach for both of us

 

[Bratva]

@Arsalan @HRK Aselsan Offered Electrical,Fire control , Electro Optical and communication systems of altay to Pakistan for their tank Upgradation. So they are offering subsystems. Not the complete Altay tank. This is where the confusion is arising

 

[Dazzler]

And when did that happen?

Last time i heard it was still under development.. according to HIT officials ...

Do you have some other source ? Please provide.

It is under development.. including subsystems...

 

[Khagan1923]

Is Altay the place Tukic people originated? It's placed in Xingjiang province. Is there any special meaning of Altay in Turkey culture? Altay=阿勒泰

No it's named after Fahrettin Altay to honor him. He lead the 5th-Cavalry-Corps in our Independence War.


Adressing Altay:

1. It's too heavy for Pakistans requirments.
2. Development of a local Engine haven't even really started.
3. It will cost much more than a VT-4 or Oplot-M

Maybe in 2-3 years once we have developed a Turkish Engine we will see Altays in Pakistan(unlikely) but until then even speculating is nonsense.

 

[Signalian]

MBT's will get heavier with time. More armor and ERA blocks, bigger turrets, bigger engines, more storage capacity for rounds including ATGM, extra road wheel etc. Current MBT in PA are 46 T range. The ones being evaluated (VT-4/Oplot) are 51-52 T range. Some day PA might induct a 55-57 T+ range MBT. Altay's weight issue should be the least of the concerns, its the procurement of various types of MBT's which is a concern. VT-4, Oplot, Altay, T-99.

Its better to stick to AK-II development.

 

[Gryphon]

@Signalian

There are at least 46 regiments in AC now, incl the President's Body guards. Mentioned here

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/badges-pakistan-army-armoured-corps.531485/

 

[LeGenD]

Why
Not even m1 and leopard 2 tank armor could stand against atgm several destroyed I Syria and Yemen respectively
Rest of electronic and other active defense system can be installed on alkahlid and be more economical then going for a new and much more expensive system

While no MBT is invincible, American M1A1 and M1A2 MBT variants feature "depleted uranium armor" which is not exported to any country.

It is also important to distinguish propaganda from facts. It is important to understand that how (and why) an MBT was taken out in a particular region. Sometimes the force that is operating it, is responsible for the deed.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

MBT's will get heavier with time. More armor and ERA blocks, bigger turrets, bigger engines, more storage capacity for rounds including ATGM, extra road wheel etc. Current MBT in PA are 46 T range. The ones being evaluated (VT-4/Oplot) are 51-52 T range. Some day PA might induct a 55-57 T+ range MBT. Altay's weight issue should be the least of the concerns, its the procurement of various types of MBT's which is a concern. VT-4, Oplot, Altay, T-99.

Its better to stick to AK-II development.

AK-Is combat load is 46-48

MBT's will get heavier with time. More armor and ERA blocks, bigger turrets, bigger engines, more storage capacity for rounds including ATGM, extra road wheel etc. Current MBT in PA are 46 T range. The ones being evaluated (VT-4/Oplot) are 51-52 T range. Some day PA might induct a 55-57 T+ range MBT. Altay's weight issue should be the least of the concerns, its the procurement of various types of MBT's which is a concern. VT-4, Oplot, Altay, T-99.

Its better to stick to AK-II development.

Weight is still an issue, if our infrastructure can’t cope with it.

The rational and logical thing would be to buy Oplots and upgrade UDs to Oplot status...

While AK-II does the heavy lifting.

AK-II

AK-I

UD/Oplot

Below

 

[帅的一匹]

While no MBT is invincible, American M1A1 and M1A2 MBT variants feature "depleted uranium armor" which is not exported to any country.

It is also important to distinguish propaganda from facts. It is important to understand that how (and why) an MBT was taken out in a particular region. Sometimes the force that is operating it, is responsible for the deed.

tank is done when face top-attacking ATGM.

 

[ziaulislam]

tank is done when face top-attacking ATGM.

If hit at front it usually survives, this is what Syrian conflict showed us

 

[Arsalan]

@Arsalan @HRK Aselsan Offered Electrical,Fire control , Electro Optical and communication systems of altay to Pakistan for their tank Upgradation. So they are offering subsystems. Not the complete Altay tank. This is where the confusion is arising

Boss they offer us sub systems because that is ALL we were EVER interested in and they know it. So yeah, you are right and i suppose that this may be where confusion comes from.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Boss they offer us sub systems because that is ALL we were EVER interested in and they know it. So yeah, you are right and i suppose that this may be where confusion comes from.

And because they are cheaper than french systems being used.

If you remember IDEAS interview (HIT Official) they stated the same ... going for Altays sub systems for AK-II.

 

[Arsalan]

And because they are cheaper than french systems being used.

If you remember IDEAS interview (HIT Official) they stated the same ... going for Altays sub systems for AK-II.

Indeed!! Lower price and gives you that "western" touch.

BTW, collaboration for sub systems development will be nice forward thinking.

 

[mustafa erkan]

Altay's trials has finished so we got developed product (except akkor APS) and Otokar has given the last and the best offer. We will see who will get the production. May be two of them will get production licance like mpt-76 because all the rights of Altay belongs to defence ministry so goverment will choose the firm or firms.Otokar is only developer of the tank and got 500 millions for this job.
First 250 will have german MTU engine and transmision. This means all of them for Turkish Army because Germans dont give permission for export.
Altay's main gun L55 120 mm smoothbore gun with koreans Tech but we know they got it from germans so it is basically german gun.MKE is developing laser guided ammunitions for ALTAY.
I dont think Pakistan will get this because its too expensive and first production numbers for years are too low.
First export will be to gulf state I guess but not in near future because turkish engine has not developed yet.BMC got this job so we wont have ALTAY with Turkish engine untill they develop it so cant export it.
I cant guess who will get the tender of first batch but if we consider second batch will have BMC engine , BMC may product it and export it.