Pakistan Army negotiating for Turkish Altay Tanks

[Muhammad Omar]

Altay for sure is a beast with additional system installed in it

• Explosive Reactive Armour (ERA) and Bar Armour Systems are applied on the tank to enhance its survivability against guided and unguided ballistic missile attacks that pose great threat in 360-degrees for main battle tanks in hybrid and asymmetric combat conditions.
• Situational awareness improved with the addition of Telescopic Elevated Observation System (EOS), YAMGÖZ system that enables 360-degrees awareness, and repositioning of remote control weapon stations (RCWS).
• The tank is fitted with a Jammer against remote control IED attacks. TheGunshot Detection System can identify the direction of sniper threats, theLaser Warning System can identify the threats by laser guided anti-tank missiles, and laser range finders that measure distance. The direction of the identified threat can be automatically smoked using the Soft Kill (Smart Smoke Curtain) System. The EOS, RCWS and tank turret can be automatically directed to the threat depending on the user's preference.
• The tank is fitted with a directional dozer blade that can be operated by the driver, and used for a variety of tasks such as preparing the defence lines, clearing the obstacles on the battlefield, and filling the tank trenches.

What about this medium weight tank which Turkey developed recently for Indonesia??

 

[Cookie Monster]

People mentioning the Oplot-P, that's never happening, just look at the inability to meet the Thai order, slowness of manufacturing and the sheer frustration of the Thais who then went to the Chinese and put in an order of MBT 3000's.

Yes but using that as an example, Pakistan can ask Ukraine to provide Pak with ToT so that Pak can license manufacture these tanks. Pak would probably have to pay more for ToT but it would be a much better option.

 

[waz]

Yes but using that as an example, Pakistan can ask Ukraine to provide Pak with ToT so that Pak can license manufacture these tanks. Pak would probably have to pay more for ToT but it would be a much better option.

Ukraine won't provide that because it just simply negates their own defence industry. Unless you make a country sign a production agreement there is nothing stopping it from using the same technology and selling tanks themselves.
Also there are numerous issues with the Oplot-P, which let's be honest are not going to be rectified due to the poor state of Ukraine's economy and defence industry in general. The Thai report into the Oplot-P has been damming and they are still awaiting completion of an order for 49 tanks they put in 2011.....
It's a headache the army will not deal with and the situation is incredibly precarious with regards to India's rapid modernisation of its armoured divisions.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Ukraine won't provide that because it just simply negates their own defence industry. Unless you make a country sign a production agreement there is nothing stopping it from using the same technology and selling tanks themselves.
Also there are numerous issues with the Oplot-P, which let's be honest are not going to be rectified due to the poor state of Ukraine's economy and defence industry in general. The Thai report into the Oplot-P has been damming and they are still awaiting completion of an order for 49 tanks they put in 2011.....
It's a headache the army will not deal with and the situation is incredibly precarious with regards to India's rapid modernisation of its armoured divisions.

If it was this simple why would the Army continue wasting its time testing it? Not only did they test it but they also highlighted its issues. The tank(Oplot) is back with supposedly those issues rectified and again under trials. Why would the army even bother to test a tank it doesn't plan on acquiring at all? If VT4 was such a clear choice then why make them two(Oplot and VT4) compete?

 

[waz]

If it was this simple why would the Army continue wasting its time testing it? Not only did they test it but they also highlighted its issues. The tank(Oplot) is back with supposedly those issues rectified and again under trials. Why would the army even bother to test a tank it doesn't plan on acquiring at all? If VT4 was such a clear choice then why make them two(Oplot and VT4) compete?

The testing request had already gone through and the army is just following its own policy. If the tank has arrived you might as well put it through its places. We will have to wait to see if the the tank has had all its issues rectified, but judging by what has happened with the Thais losing interest in it completely, it doesn't look good. Aside from the issues it faces there is also production rate, quality assurance and literally being able to fulfil orders, which the Ukrainians will not be able to do.

 

[araz]

The testing request had already gone through and the army is just following its own policy. If the tank has arrived you might as well put it through its places. We will have to wait to see if the the tank has had all its issues rectified, but judging by what has happened with the Thais losing interest in it completely, it doesn't look good. Aside from the issues it faces there is also production rate, quality assurance and literally being able to fulfil orders, which the Ukrainians will not be able to do.

i was made to understand the real candy being dangled was the Engine production facility. Ukraine's economic woes are well known. However, it is stressful times like these that are utilized to get a favourable deal for both parties. PA needs the engine and if the engine is half as good as it is stated to be then we will have made credible gains both for AKs and other future projects. The engine can also be used for larger IFVs. So the possibilities are immense.
The real question is whether the PA has the balls and the vision to take it through. It might also be a ploy to get the Chinese to offer a similar deal for us. However the chances of ukraine complying will be higher than the Chinese complying.As Always my view point, therefore could be totally wrong.
A

 

[monitor]

Ataley is a great Tank but with it's massive 65 ton weight it suitable for Pakistani terrain? And cost could be another headache for Pakistan .

 

[waz]

i was made to understand the real candy being dangled was the Engine production facility. Ukraine's economic woes are well known. However, it is stressful times like these that are utilized to get a favourable deal for both parties. PA needs the engine and if the engine is half as good as it is stated to be then we will have made credible gains both for AKs and other future projects. The engine can also be used for larger IFVs. So the possibilities are immense.
The real question is whether the PA has the balls and the vision to take it through. It might also be a ploy to get the Chinese to offer a similar deal for us. However the chances of ukraine complying will be higher than the Chinese complying.As Always my view point, therefore could be totally wrong.
A

It's as you say candy at the moment, there's no clear intent from them and they're currently in a shed load of trouble. The thing is the army cannot wait, and believe you me wait it will, I already put the debacle with the Thais. It terms of immediate needs it is time to move on, but still keep the confidence of the Ukrainians, because as you said there could be future possibilities to explore.
The Chinese will made good on their promises, however I do have concerns regarding the VT4 and its direct counterpart the serving Type 99G. Will Pakistan get the heightened work on the Type99G.

https://www.army-technology.com/projects/type99chinese-main/

 

[Sine Nomine]

Aside from the issues it faces there is also production rate, quality assurance and literally being able to fulfil orders, which the Ukrainians will not be able to do.

That can be used for gaining a full lift up of HIT and Engine Production.

 

[Cookie Monster]

The testing request had already gone through and the army is just following its own policy. If the tank has arrived you might as well put it through its places. We will have to wait to see if the the tank has had all its issues rectified, but judging by what has happened with the Thais losing interest in it completely, it doesn't look good. Aside from the issues it faces there is also production rate, quality assurance and literally being able to fulfil orders, which the Ukrainians will not be able to do.

Still asking them to send it back with improvements while not planning on buying it seems a bit odd to say the least. If Pak Army didn't plan on buying Oplots then the first failure of it should've served as the perfect excuse to deny the Ukrainians.

 

[waz]

Still asking them to send it back with improvements while not planning on buying it seems a bit odd to say the least. If Pak Army didn't plan on buying Oplots then the first failure of it should've served as the perfect excuse to deny the Ukrainians.

Araz pointed it out above i.e. that there is some future possibilities for it. At the end of the day you need to be sure.

 

[!eon]

It is too heavy for desert region and plains, especially for Cholistan, Tamewela/ Bahawalpur region. Anything above 55 ton and it will become a nightmare to operate in that part of the world.

M1(approx 68 short ton) is being used in deserts of Middle East and Africa. Why Altay is unfit for deserts ?

 

[PakShaheen79]

Ok, I don't get it. Every time a modern tank is discussed, weight becomes an issue despite the fact that not all entire Indo-Pak border is desert. Central and northern Punjab has very rigid terrain. Getting a relatively smaller quantity of heavier and more secure tank (every modern tank weighs more than 55-60 tons) is not a bad idea.

Here is a great resource for comparing tanks from all three generations.
https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3Wkn.../List_of_main_battle_tanks_by_generation.html

 

[Zarvan]

The testing request had already gone through and the army is just following its own policy. If the tank has arrived you might as well put it through its places. We will have to wait to see if the the tank has had all its issues rectified, but judging by what has happened with the Thais losing interest in it completely, it doesn't look good. Aside from the issues it faces there is also production rate, quality assurance and literally being able to fulfil orders, which the Ukrainians will not be able to do.

Pakistanis hardly liked VT 4. It was OPLOT which was liked by our forces. The only issue was the engine heating up other than that Tank was liked by our forces. So OPLOT when returns will have real chance of winning the competition

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Altay for sure is a beast with additional system installed in it

• Explosive Reactive Armour (ERA) and Bar Armour Systems are applied on the tank to enhance its survivability against guided and unguided ballistic missile attacks that pose great threat in 360-degrees for main battle tanks in hybrid and asymmetric combat conditions.
• Situational awareness improved with the addition of Telescopic Elevated Observation System (EOS), YAMGÖZ system that enables 360-degrees awareness, and repositioning of remote control weapon stations (RCWS).
• The tank is fitted with a Jammer against remote control IED attacks. TheGunshot Detection System can identify the direction of sniper threats, theLaser Warning System can identify the threats by laser guided anti-tank missiles, and laser range finders that measure distance. The direction of the identified threat can be automatically smoked using the Soft Kill (Smart Smoke Curtain) System. The EOS, RCWS and tank turret can be automatically directed to the threat depending on the user's preference.
• The tank is fitted with a directional dozer blade that can be operated by the driver, and used for a variety of tasks such as preparing the defence lines, clearing the obstacles on the battlefield, and filling the tank trenches.

View attachment 453937 View attachment 453938 View attachment 453939 View attachment 453940 View attachment 453941

What about this medium weight tank which Turkey developed recently for Indonesia??

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Apart from the APS, all other subsystems you mentioned equip AK.. and all are indigenous solutions.

Ok, I don't get it. Every time a modern tank is discussed, weight becomes an issue despite the fact that not all entire Indo-Pak border is desert. Central and northern Punjab has very rigid terrain. Getting a relatively smaller quantity of heavier and more secure tank (every modern tank weighs more than 55-60 tons) is not a bad idea.

Here is a great resource for comparing tanks from all three generations.
https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3Wkn.../List_of_main_battle_tanks_by_generation.html

It does because Paks Panjab and Sindh also have a vast canal system.. our bridges and railways cant support a 60 ton tank.

Ask the indians .. apart from arjun mbts flaws.. there infrastructure cant support it either.