Pakistan and Israel

[Solomon2]

And israeli a tiny nation fought arabs without US OR EU SUPPORT? WHAT A BLOODY JOKE

For Arab leaders of the war, it was indeed a bloody joke played upon their subjects: link. To Israelis, of course, victory from the brink of certain destruction was a miracle.

Soloman what about the time when israeli forces...what about the present massacre of muslims...what about -

I've already disproved one such calumny that you presented as a fact. Why should the burden of proof continue to rest upon my shoulders rather than yours?

Oh, and I can do without the inflammatory war ****, thank you.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

For Arab leaders of the war, it was indeed a bloody joke played upon their subjects: link.
I've already disproved one such calumny that you presented as a fact. Why should the burden of proof continue to rest upon my shoulders rather than yours?

Oh, and I can do without the inflammatory war ****, thank you.

Proof do you have any proof of HALLOCAUST that 6 million jews died?except a jew old ones telling tale of how germans exterminted people?
WELL THE VULGAR WORD YOU USED FOR INNOCENT THAT SOME BA....DS KILLED IS A SHAME.
BUT STILL ITS IN YOUR MENTALITY.
May ALLAH ALMIGHTY show you the true part and help unfold the ZOINIST BINDFOLD from your eyes AMEEN.

 

[Solomon2]

Proof do you have any proof of HALLOCAUST that 6 million jews died? except a jew old ones telling tale of how germans exterminted people?

You are now wayyy off-topic so I refer you to this thread.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Why dont like the taste of your own medicine?

 

[Mercenary]

at Mercenary

man you cannot get any worse than this, can u??

i think accepting israel is to let these zionists sully our land by letting them entering our pak land by letting these rats to start their massive mossad propaganda and to control and blackmail our authority. we already have enough od CIA already.

we are muslims and we dont want to beg no one least of all jews to support our defence by embracing their illegal existance

So Zionists are running all over Egypt, Jordan, Turkey?

 

[Mercenary]

Proof do you have any proof of HALLOCAUST that 6 million jews died?except a jew old ones telling tale of how germans exterminted people?
WELL THE VULGAR WORD YOU USED FOR INNOCENT THAT SOME BA....DS KILLED IS A SHAME.
BUT STILL ITS IN YOUR MENTALITY.
May ALLAH ALMIGHTY show you the true part and help unfold the ZOINIST BINDFOLD from your eyes AMEEN.

Pakistani Nationalist you are acting like a Pakistani Idiot.

The holocaust is the most documented event in history. The Germans kept meticulous records of whom they killed. If you had any guts you could actually go to Poland and see the death camps yourself and see the evidence.

Your denial of the holocaust only shows your lack of intellect and able to process simple facts and paint everything in a conspiracy nonsense.

 

[ptldM3]

Proof do you have any proof of HALLOCAUST that 6 million jews died?

I will have to interrupt you. Firstly, the hallocaust is one of the most documented events in history, do a quick search and you will find video and pictures of jews being throw in mass graves, shot, hung, gased, thrown in incinerators, ect. Even the Germans do not deny the Hallocaust. PS i have family that served in WWII, all of te sick things the Germans did to Jews is thrue.

 

[fhassan]

Salaam

I think it's important for Muslims to read this article by Shaykh Hamzah Yusuf regarding the holocaust:

Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam
By Shaykh Hamza Yusuf
Zaytuna Institute & Academy

 

[mughaljee]

Israel being Pakistan's enemy is a pseudo-fantasy that Pakistanis engage in to make themselves feel more Arab.

Pakistan should be like Turkey who has relations with Israel but pushes Israel to make peace with the Palestinians.

It was Pakistan who send Pilots against Israel in 1967 and 1973.

How many Arab pilots came to Pakistan to fight its wars with India in 1965 and 1971? NONE....

Time to get Pakistan's priority in high gear.

My dear Brother,
I can understand your feeling, because u live outside pakistan, So what you are saying it may be right.
But ,
Isreal was, is , and will be our enemy.
Pakistan Should careful.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I don't think the issue of Israel is really that important for Pakistan's national interest.

Perhaps for a more global harmony its an issue as it fuels , Al Qaida but in general Israel , Jewish people do have certain right to live in that land with , Palestinians

Infact

a) Christians b) Muslims c) Jews

Should all share the region with United Nation Police controlling the Holy City
and Two seperate states exist for Jews and Palestine

With a Peace treaty for 50 years in place no war -

The problem right now is , that there is no land for Palestinians where they can , live peacefully and that is where the problem lies, its a realtistic real estate issue , and United Nation can solve it provided that all the global powers can sit down and chart down the main points instead of Veto on resolutions

Does that involve Pakistan , no - so with that in prespective , its a no issue.


Reality:
Middle East Whole Middle east , was created, when the leaders of that regions signed a pact with British armies to help them revolt vs
Ottoman Empire , and as a reward they were given barren , desert/oassis lands as gift. (Unkowningly it had oil).

But those are realities, some where down the line "some" people , made this an issue of Pakistani people - when we are like 9000 milies + away from Israel.

And we have a moral understanding similar to what United Nation has on the Palestinian Issue , that its an issue which needs resolve.

What we need is dialogue with Israel , to sit down and discuss the issue of Palestine together with global community and resolve these political issues rather then engage in proxy situation


a) I agree Pakistan's own priorities should be first
b) Asian regional Priorities should be next

Mean while , we sould definitly keep the doors of dialogs opened

a) Egypt has full ties with Israel , they are part of Arab council
b) Jordan has full ties with Israel , they are part of Arab council
c) Lebnoon has some communications
d) Turkey has full ties with Israel

So - its only logical , we should engage in dialog frist , and then discuss ways to improve conditions for Palestinians - and gradually a free land for Palestine


Realities:

a) Dialoug is Needed
b) Palestinian State is needed

a) So its like chicken came frist or the egg situation - if you think about it - but either
way

b) We need a brave leader like Musharif to enage Israel , and develop diplomatic ties
Similar to NATO Meanwhile we should also get in defensive , contracts with whole
Middle east - so there is no backlash against peace with Israel


Also - Pakistan traditionally has ALWAYS had a forigne policy of dialog even with India - so its only natural we engage all nations - and try to move forward

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

we have no beef with israel......we shouldnt worry about them

Pakistan was founded on the basis of Islam, and we are very patriotic and protective about our country.

Are we hypocrites if we say that the Jews dont deserve their own homeland? Of course we can (rightly) argue that the zionist ideology is racism mixed with nationalism ---but if you read the Talmud you will know that zionist-fascism is against the teachings of Judaism.


in other words, I dont want to see my own comrades degrading themselves by insulting Jews or Jewish religion. It is wrong, and it shows bad taste. We are educated people here.


I am against the violent practices and collective punishment and torture that has been utilized by the israelis against Palestinians.

But this isnt our war. We have our own problems. Forget about the israelis.

We sent our pilots in 67 and 73 as a good cause, and they did damn well. We have been confronted by israeli politicians and figureheads openly making hostile statements against Pakistan and her nuclear capability

but on the aggregate --we should not waste our time with them. They represent no threat to us; israel is a tiny tiny country.

If Pakistan wasnt facing the social and security issues confronting us, we could have played a positive role model for all Muslim countries --like Turkey and Malaysia. This is my dream for Pakistan. And to do that, you have to be pragmatic and not let emotions or intolerance take over your decisions.


No, our threats are a lot closer to home unfortunately. We have a large and increasingly hostile enemy to the east; and a porous border with a war-torn Afghanistan to the north.


lets take care of these problems first.







p.s. I support a 2 state solution. 1967 borders, and Jerusalem jointly owned by both israel and Palestine.....it would be a district with no apartheid practices. Unfortunately, israel continues to arm itself and blockade Gaza and even portions of West Bank. Obama and Hillary Clinton have so far failed to keep their promises

all illegal land and settlements constructed should be surrendered









(not gonna happen )

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Plus the MAIN issue is

"Piyasa Ku-ein ke pass ata hai , not the other way around"


If the countries in the region need Pakistan to Lead discussion on Peace efforts since we are a Nuclear Nation and strongest army/navu/airforce

a) Give us Leadership Authority
b) Sign peace treates with Pakistan (Like Nato)
c) Support our Armed wing and have cooperation on all Military level

how many Arab countries gave us 10-20 billion dollars to grow our aeronutical complex
how many arabs placed orders for Al Khalid tank
How many arabs , invested in our indurstry , we are talking about 5-10 billion dollar investment ??

Arabs can openly invest 100 billion in disney land in France etc but they won't purchase anything from us they will always go to Britain to buy items which may be lower quality too.

When Arabs themseleves have no strategic planning , why do we have to take up the "theeka of fixing their problems" - point to be noted ...

China invests billions in our country , how many arab countries have invested billions in our economy , civil sector, mobile , telecom

There is some recent movement but still long long long way to go

Then we can spend our time to Lead Peace effrots ...

We are just wasting our time trying to be Hero , when we are like 10,000 miles away from that geographical area, and the actual countries in that reagion have peace treates for 30 years with Israel , and they are enjoying economic benefits

Also , why don't we invite any palestinians and settle them in a province ???

We can't even settle our own , old Bangali , Pakistani back in our provinces becasue all provinces don't want to take 4-10 million people coming in from camps in Bangladesh -
(This is a very dark element of our history that we are not taught in our schools)

So I rest my case for me , I want to see Pakistanis left behind , come back home to Pakistan who are in Bangladesh camps since 70's

If that is not possible at least have peace with other natio and solve one issue, in process -

We have lack of strategic thinkers in our nation who look far



With that stated , sure some ppl posted some videos forum about killing and murders, but if we have peace then the murders and killings will automatically stop - but we need to have peace first ... otherwise the sad state of Palestine will remain and the conflict will continue

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

that is why i said...

it is NOT our war, man. Lets worry about ourselves first; It's one thing to be an activist and be productive

but im sick and tired of hearing the intolerance and the angry slogans....


Me personally, I'm a fan of the Turkish model. Strong private sector, strong state facilities and institutions, and most importantly --- fairly equal access to quality education all across the board.


i say these things --because we require introspection and self-correction first. Forget israeli vs. arabs.......that is their problem


our concern is Pakistan/Kashmir, and also political and economic stability in the region

 

[pak-yes]

Although I don't agree accepting Israel or any sort of dialogue with Israel as those Arabs who have done so for 30 years and nothing has been yielded so it's useless for dialogue with Israel.BUT BUT BUT we should NOT Poke our nose into Middle East affairs.We enough of our own problems.If not More Equal number of Pakistanis are being killed in violence as are Palestinians.And i totally agree with AZADPAKISTAN2009 why should we care about any Arab issue anyway they don't care about us.They can give billions of dollars to west for the toys they don't even know how to use but they can't give us the funds required for the growth of our defense Industry.If they had even invested a little sum of 10 billion dollars in PAC it would be churning out ALLAH knows what things.But they didn't.They just like to throw their money away on some stupid but shiny things.They can invest and lose billions of dollars in west without a sign of anger.But they can't invest a little in their so called brotherly nation.They import labor from INDIA.Thus strengthening our Arch enemy.Those Arabs don't even care about the other Arabs(PALESTINIANS).But we should be different from those Arabs.We should give whatever we can spare to Palestinians regularly to stop them from starving.So we can show Palestinians that even if their Arabs stop helping them we Pakistanis being Muslims will be always at their back.

 

[Choppers]

Israel being Pakistan's enemy is a pseudo-fantasy that Pakistanis engage in to make themselves feel more Arab.

Pakistan should be like Turkey who has relations with Israel but pushes Israel to make peace with the Palestinians.

It was Pakistan who send Pilots against Israel in 1967 and 1973.

How many Arab pilots came to Pakistan to fight its wars with India in 1965 and 1971? NONE....

Time to get Pakistan's priority in high gear.

A very Realistic view..But many Pakistanis here think that it is their responsibility to help arabs and fight against Israel.