Pakistan and Israel

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The Zionists approached the Ottoman Emperor for a Jewish homeland in Palestine and were refused. At this point, they moved to Plan B, which used clandestine migration and Western colonialism to achieve their goals.

The British actually promised the Arabs a pan-Arab homeland if they rebelled against the Ottoman rulers. Meanwhile, behind the scenes, they promised the Jews a homeland in Palestine.

After the WW2, the US was promoting a stance of self-determination for erstwhile colonial subjects, except in the Middle East, where they specifically exempted the British and the French to carve it up between themselves, and hand over a chunk to create Israel.

If Mecca was ever not in control of Muslims , I am sure we would be going to every one to ask permission to live in Mecca , am I correct so why are jewish people wrong to live in the land that is center of their faith -

Now is the killing of Innocent ppl via WEAPONS , BOMBS fair NO ... and that is where UN has to step up and people who believe in peace should team up to resolve the issue
fighter planes vs civilians or suicide bombing are both an evil curse


Well , I think - the process should be

Peace , thru dialog -

There are alot of people on Israel side as well who want Peace and also alot of Jews in US and other parts of world who do not feel that
Violence , and denial of civil rights is the solution

So we need to engage with those people.

The political Wing/Army of Israel is not really what every Israeli person thinks like , there are alot of people who go in Palestine and help out as well , and alot of Jews who actively , participate in stance with Palestinians cause , so I think people need to really be realistic.

And not judge every one based on action of few in places of power

 

[gambit]

Couldn't the Arabs just sanction America? lol that would be pretty epic. It would mean chaos lawl

Sanction US with what? Oil?



You need to check a bit on history. To punish US for supporting Israel, the Saudis reduced their oil outputs by merely about %5. It created fuel rationing in the US but also prompted US to improve our fuel usage efficiencies. In the end, the 1970s 'oil embargo' was a bust. It hurt the Saudis more than US. It made no statement other than the fact that the ME is just as much dependent upon the oil importing world as we are dependent upon their oil export.

The downside lesson of the whole affair is that WHEN, not if, the US no longer depends on the ME for oil, and most of our oil import are from non-ME sources anyway, the Arabs will have nothing to fall back upon. No natively run industry like auto or semiconductor manufacturing to support the sheiks' high living. If Pakistan is smart, current or future generation of leaders, Pakistan should politically move away from the ME and its shortsighted culture and politics. The Arabs have nothing to offer Pakistan other than to embroil you in the Israelis-Palestinians conflict for their own gains. Like it or not, this is about Pakistan first and being a muslim second.

 

[FreekiN]

Sanction US with what? Oil?



You need to check a bit on history. To punish US for supporting Israel, the Saudis reduced their oil outputs by merely about %5. It created fuel rationing in the US but also prompted US to improve our fuel usage efficiencies. In the end, the 1970s 'oil embargo' was a bust. It hurt the Saudis more than US. It made no statement other than the fact that the ME is just as much dependent upon the oil importing world as we are dependent upon their oil export.

The downside lesson of the whole affair is that WHEN, not if, the US no longer depends on the ME for oil, and most of our oil import are from non-ME sources anyway, the Arabs will have nothing to fall back upon. No natively run industry like auto or semiconductor manufacturing to support the sheiks' high living. If Pakistan is smart, current or future generation of leaders, Pakistan should politically move away from the ME and its shortsighted culture and politics. The Arabs have nothing to offer Pakistan other than to embroil you in the Israelis-Palestinians conflict for their own gains. Like it or not, this is about Pakistan first and being a muslim second.

Yeah yeah.. but still 'if' it happened it would still mean chaos xD

 

[Developereo]

If Mecca was ever not in control of Muslims , I am sure we would be going to every one to ask permission to live in Mecca , am I correct so why are jewish people wrong to live in the land that is center of their faith -

There is no God given right to live in the land of your faith, and it certainly is no excuse to terrorize people out of their homes and kill them because they are of the 'wrong' religion. If that were true, then the Vatican should relocate to Bethlehem and belong to Christians.

Secular law does not subordinate to people's religious wishes.

The Jewish people did not originate in Israel. The ancient Hebrews invaded Canaan, massacred the people, and took over their land to form Israel. They, in turn, were kicked out by the Romans and the Arabs took over in the intervening centuries. In the twentieth century, the modern state of Israel was created by the force of Western weapons.

There is no legitimacy involved here, except the one gained at gunpoint.

 

[ice_man]

Sanction US with what? Oil?



You need to check a bit on history. To punish US for supporting Israel, the Saudis reduced their oil outputs by merely about %5. It created fuel rationing in the US but also prompted US to improve our fuel usage efficiencies. In the end, the 1970s 'oil embargo' was a bust. It hurt the Saudis more than US. It made no statement other than the fact that the ME is just as much dependent upon the oil importing world as we are dependent upon their oil export.

The downside lesson of the whole affair is that WHEN, not if, the US no longer depends on the ME for oil, and most of our oil import are from non-ME sources anyway, the Arabs will have nothing to fall back upon. No natively run industry like auto or semiconductor manufacturing to support the sheiks' high living. If Pakistan is smart, current or future generation of leaders, Pakistan should politically move away from the ME and its shortsighted culture and politics. The Arabs have nothing to offer Pakistan other than to embroil you in the Israelis-Palestinians conflict for their own gains. Like it or not, this is about Pakistan first and being a muslim second.

partly you are correct in the fact that oil embargo was a bust! but then again it wasn't planned well! & US till today buys MOST OF ITS OIL FROM THE ME! SAUDI is its biggest supplier!

so yes the arabs are dumb not to spend on developing local industry but then again one day they might wake up and realize....the power they can excercise!

 

[gambit]

partly you are correct in the fact that oil embargo was a bust! but then again it wasn't planned well! & US till today buys MOST OF ITS OIL FROM THE ME! SAUDI is its biggest supplier!

Really?

so yes the arabs are dumb not to spend on developing local industry but then again one day they might wake up and realize....the power they can excercise!

Might? The Arabs are doing EXACTLY what I advised Pakistan to do...Put country's self interests first. Why do you think that despite all the noise about muslim unity and Western colonialism and blah...blah...blah...yadda...yadda...yadda...Their OPEC cartel have been powerless all these years to do anything beyond setting prices? Oil is their countries' self interests. What are Pakistan's? The Palestinians' welfare?

 

[mughaljee]

gambit /-

Your time is right ,
but
it's not mean you are right.

 

[Solomon2]

I think he has turned his own opinion into facts

The British actually promised the Arabs a pan-Arab homeland if they rebelled against the Ottoman rulers. Meanwhile, behind the scenes, they promised the Jews a homeland in Palestine.

who told you "Jews were promised a homeland in the middle east" ?? and when was this?

Article 95 of the Treaty of Sevres, which ended WWI between the Ottomans and the Allies:

The High Contracting Parties agree to entrust, by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory to be selected by the said Powers. The Mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2, 1917, [The Balfour Declaration] by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.

You did not know history from this basic starting point. So why do you think your judgments are valid? Did you learn it in school? On TV? From your local imam? Your family? At university?

 

[pak-yes]

Mr Palestinians people didn't promise Jews to give Palestine .So by putting these maps you are negating yourself.British Promised them not muslims . you are showing these maps to us as if we had promised them.The Allied had won the war they could write whatever they want in those stupid treaties.It doesn't mean that we endorse them.

 

[Solomon2]

Pak-yes, answer the charge you leveled at me: did I "turn my own opinion into fact", yes or no?

 

[pak-yes]

well when you said that Jews were promised homeland you should also had backed it up with evidence.That way i would not had the chance of saying anything.And now that i have answered your question answer mine.

 

[Solomon2]

Try harder, pak-yes.

 

[pak-yes]

Come on Man don't play games with me answer my question.if you can.

 

[Solomon2]

Am I wrong to think that I'm owed a clear acknowledgment or apology here?

 

[pak-yes]

For what? you posted in the previous page

The Jews were promised a homeland in the middle east decades before that. For when the Ottoman, Russian, and Austro-Hungarian empires were broken up after WWI, it was recognized that these Empires were made possible by applying divide-and-rule to their mixed-up nationalities, so separating the peoples out into nation-states was the workable alternative. We now have decades upon decades of proof to show that this (plus democracy) is the best possible way to go to ensure peace.

All i am saying that when you said"The Jews were promised a homeland in the middle east decades before that" it was your duty to provide

The High Contracting Parties agree to entrust, by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory to be selected by the said Powers. The Mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2, 1917, [The Balfour Declaration] by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.

this within that post not after sometime.As you didn't provided proof at that time so i was right to say that it was your personal opinion.It isn't my fault that you posted your material after sometime.And now i think i have clarified myself answer my question.