Pakistan and Israel

[Mercenary]

A very Realistic view..But many Pakistanis here think that it is their responsibility to help arabs and fight against Israel.

And besides Hamas and Hezbollah, which Arab countries are actually fighting Israel?

No Arab country is going to war with Israel. It would mean heavy military losses, economic sanctions imposed by USA, a possible overthrow of the government by Islamic Radicals.

The only country that loses not establishing relations with Israel is Pakistan. As Israel continues to send more sophisticated weaponry to the Indians which impedes our defenses.

Pakistan needs to think about its own well being instead of thinking that by having a nuclear weapon it somehow became the leader of the Islamic World.

Not a single Muslim country thinks of Pakistan as being a leader of the Islamic World. That has been either Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Turkey or even Iran.

Pakistan is relegated to the 2nd tier of Muslim power along with Malaysia, Indonesia, Algeria, etc.

Too bad Pakistanis don't realize this.

 

[Developereo]

And besides Hamas and Hezbollah, which Arab countries are actually fighting Israel?

No question there; the Arab governments are two-faced liars. They don't give a damn about the Palestinians, even though popular Arab public opinion is sympathetic to their cause. That's why half of Ahmedinijad's bluster is aimed at the Arab streets. He is arguably more popular there than their local despot.

No Arab country is going to war with Israel. It would mean heavy military losses, economic sanctions imposed by USA, a possible overthrow of the government by Islamic Radicals.

Possibly, and it may pave the way for actual democracy down the line, which would be anathema for Israel and the US. Even now the US pays $2 billion/year to their thug Hosni Mubarak to quash democracy and keep Egypt in check.

The only country that loses not establishing relations with Israel is Pakistan. As Israel continues to send more sophisticated weaponry to the Indians which impedes our defenses.

First of all, our decision should be based on moral principles, not material gain.

But, in any case, aside from the fact that a Pakistani government recognition of Israel would be meaningless, given the overwhelming contempt for Israel in the public at large, there is absolutely nothing to be gained by such an act. What exactly have the other Muslim countries gained by recognizing Israel?

It will have zero impact on the Indian-Israeli military cooperation; neither will it dampen the anti-Pakistan machinations of the pro-Israeli lobbies worldwide (not least as a favor to their ally India); and it will not win us any friends in the Muslim world.

There are, on the other hand, significant downsides. Besides feeling dirty for selling our soul for profit, we will alienate many ordinary Muslims around the world. Even Turkey is pulling back from its cozy relationship with Israel and asserting a principled stance on Israel abuses.

Pakistan needs to think about its own well being instead of thinking that by having a nuclear weapon it somehow became the leader of the Islamic World.

Not a single Muslim country thinks of Pakistan as being a leader of the Islamic World. That has been either Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Turkey or even Iran.

Pakistan is relegated to the 2nd tier of Muslim power along with Malaysia, Indonesia, Algeria, etc.

Too bad Pakistanis don't realize this.

Agree with this part. We should focus on our own well being and enhancing our strengths instead of being the Islamic policeman around the world. This doesn't mean abandoning the Palestinian cause -- we will never do that -- but it does mean we need to understand that we can help Palestinians (and Muslims in general) better if we are an economically, technologically and militarily strong country. We need to build this economic/technological strength even to enhance our bargaining position in the Kashmir struggle against India.

 

[Choppers]

And besides Hamas and Hezbollah, which Arab countries are actually fighting Israel?

No Arab country is going to war with Israel. It would mean heavy military losses, economic sanctions imposed by USA, a possible overthrow of the government by Islamic Radicals.

The only country that loses not establishing relations with Israel is Pakistan. As Israel continues to send more sophisticated weaponry to the Indians which impedes our defenses.

Pakistan needs to think about its own well being instead of thinking that by having a nuclear weapon it somehow became the leader of the Islamic World.

Not a single Muslim country thinks of Pakistan as being a leader of the Islamic World. That has been either Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Turkey or even Iran.

Pakistan is relegated to the 2nd tier of Muslim power along with Malaysia, Indonesia, Algeria, etc.

Too bad Pakistanis don't realize this.

Spot On.Most Pakistanis dont realise that they are made scapegoats and is being used by both West and Arab countries.

This is nothing but an outcome of countless conspiracy theories being churned out by mullahs and consumed by the general masses.

Unless the public does not awaken pakistan will always be fighting these proxy wars.

 

[paritosh]

That makes him indian not to forget other muslim rajputs of PAKISTAN?

well...somebody said that the "muslim khan would whoop any hindu boxer's a$$"
the forget that many Pakistanis have descended from hindus...just like your qaid...religions don't help your style.

 

[waraich66]

And besides Hamas and Hezbollah, which Arab countries are actually fighting Israel?

No Arab country is going to war with Israel. It would mean heavy military losses, economic sanctions imposed by USA, a possible overthrow of the government by Islamic Radicals.

The only country that loses not establishing relations with Israel is Pakistan. As Israel continues to send more sophisticated weaponry to the Indians which impedes our defenses.

Pakistan needs to think about its own well being instead of thinking that by having a nuclear weapon it somehow became the leader of the Islamic World.

Not a single Muslim country thinks of Pakistan as being a leader of the Islamic World. That has been either Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Turkey or even Iran.

Pakistan is relegated to the 2nd tier of Muslim power along with Malaysia, Indonesia, Algeria, etc.

Too bad Pakistanis don't realize this.

Arabs(GCC) helped Pakistan to get nuke technology financially , Pakistan could not by pass them at any case .

Pakistan and GCC have defence agreements and thousand of our serving and retired army personal serving their forces.

Pakistan have advantage of oil supply and now KSA and UAE intrested to invest in infrastructure projects ie KESC is currently operated by UAE based company.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

A very Realistic view..But many Pakistanis here think that it is their responsibility to help arabs and fight against Israel.

has nothing to do with Arabs, it has to do with helping Muslims; and you can see that even here people are mixed about the issue

so don't fall victim to this indian habit of generalizing everything.

It is no doubt that israelis are arming you indians (our enemy), so that is a bone of contention. But we don't have any actual beef against israel, apart from the fact that they are responsible for the killing of many Palestinians (and Lebanese). But that isnt just our responsibility to voice our disapproval --it is responsibility of the world.

more and more people are realizing that israel's policy of settlement building and displacing indigenous Palestinians will only lead to more resentment; and israel will never see genuine peace until they get out of their denial.


thanks.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

well...somebody said that the "muslim khan would whoop any hindu boxer's a$$"
the forget that many Pakistanis have descended from hindus...just like your qaid...religions don't help your style.

that's the beauty of it, that people saw the light in Islam.

lower caste hindus under discrimination embraced Islam, while even influential people like Jinnah's distant ancestors embraced the same religion. It shows that Islam was a religion that never discriminated along caste or economic lines.

Partition is something every man woman and child of Pakistan is proud of; and also of our Qaid-e-Azam, father of the nation.



as for the boxer -- we'll see who delivers. Amir Khan is rapidly rising to the top, a lot of people are talking about him now.

76 second KO....salita ko nani yaad ayi i think





p.s. totally off-topic, but worth the read

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect...iting+central+african+boxers+to+embrace+islam

 

[Solomon2]

more and more people are realizing that israel's policy of settlement building and displacing indigenous Palestinians will only lead to more resentment; and israel will never see genuine peace until they get out of their denial.

I do not recall any Arab or Muslim raising their voice to protest the expulsion of "indigenous" Jews from the "Arab" lands of Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, etc. in the aftermath of their failed wars or as a result of tyrannical rule. In your view, were the Jews of these lands supposed to rise in arms to protest, rather than depart in peace and re-settle elsewhere? And where else could these Jews go other than Israel?

In my opinion, Israel will never see genuine peace until its neighbors are willing to discuss not only how small Israel should be, but how big Israel should be as well. Remember, Israel is only 11,000 square miles if you include the Golan, West Bank, and Gaza, whereas the lands dominated by Arabs (where Jews lived before they were kicked out) currently total about five hundred times greater. (The original League of Nations plan for a Jewish homeland included Jordan, too.)

If the end of all discussions is Israel's elimination from the map then that is expulsion or extermination; why should Jews embrace such a "peace"? And why, if there is no acknowledgment by Arabs of the crimes committed against Jews in the name of Arabs, would any peace endure? Wouldn't we just see a new generation, schooled in ignorance and hatred, reared for future conflicts with the Jewish State?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

I do not recall any Arab or Muslim raising their voice to protest the expulsion of "indigenous" Jews from the "Arab" lands of Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, etc. in the aftermath of their failed wars or as a result of tyrannical rule. In your view, were the Jews of these lands supposed to rise in arms to protest, rather than depart in peace and re-settle elsewhere? And where else could these Jews go other than Israel?

just after holocaust, many jews in fact fled to these areas...especially Sephardics. Look at Jews in Iran for example.

In my opinion, Israel will never see genuine peace until its neighbors are willing to discuss not only how small Israel should be, but how big Israel should be as well.

it should have been eastern european countries, since that is where many of these Jews were living and eventually exiled from and/or killed

now that the Jews are already in Middle East, they cant be told to just disappear. Some settlement will have to be reached. But it is made difficult when zionists bulldoze their homes and livelihood

Remember, Israel is only 11,000 square miles if you include the Golan, West Bank, and Gaza, whereas the lands dominated by Arabs (where Jews lived before they were kicked out) currently total about five hundred times greater.

Golan Heights belongs to Syria.

and it is Palestinian Arabs who were being kicked out of their homes....there are many people who still have the deeds to their old properties

And why, if there is no acknowledgment by Arabs of the crimes committed against Jews in the name of Arabs, would any peace endure?

compare the death tolls, compare the destruction of private property

Wouldn't we just see a new generation, schooled in ignorance and hatred, reared for future conflicts with the Jewish State?

you act as if israel is innocent, hasnt broken any international laws, hasnt caused great grief to many of her neighbours


trust me, i dont act as if Palestinians (and southern Lebanese) also dont need to unite --and ensure that un-provoked rocket attacks end as well.

 

[Solomon2]

it should have been eastern european countries, since that is where many of these Jews were living and eventually exiled from and/or killed

The Jews were promised a homeland in the middle east decades before that. For when the Ottoman, Russian, and Austro-Hungarian empires were broken up after WWI, it was recognized that these Empires were made possible by applying divide-and-rule to their mixed-up nationalities, so separating the peoples out into nation-states was the workable alternative. We now have decades upon decades of proof to show that this (plus democracy) is the best possible way to go to ensure peace.

now that the Jews are already in Middle East, they cant be told to just disappear. Some settlement will have to be reached. But it is made difficult when zionists bulldoze their homes and livelihood

Difficult, or easier?

now that the Jews are already in Middle East, they cant be told to just disappear...and it is Palestinian Arabs who were being kicked out of their homes.

Your acknowledgment of my point lasted about one breath, then your mind kicked back into Arabs-are-the-only-victims mode.

you act as if israel is innocent, hasnt broken any international laws, hasnt caused great grief to many of her neighbours

Israel's first foreign minister, Moshe Sharett, sometimes acknowledged the Palestinian Arab tragedy as "the small injustice" compared to "the large injustice" of the Jewish Holocaust and the wishes of so many Arabs to complete the Nazi's most enduring project.

Israelis are quite aware of many Arab griefs - but they know that all too often they aren't the cause. Even many Arabs know:

It is true that the people of Gaza are suffering, but supporting Hamas financially will do nothing more than increase the suffering of the Palestinian cause as a whole. link

Furthermore, when Israel is cited repeatedly, over and over, as the ONLY cause - or even the only POSSIBLE cause for the world's ills, then that's an illness that needs some sort of antidote, don't you think? What would the world be like if Muslims woke up every morning and asked themselves what we did to make the world a worse place and what we can do to fix things?

i dont act as if Palestinians (and southern Lebanese) also dont need to unite --and ensure that un-provoked rocket attacks end as well.

Did you ask yourself why these groups should have rockets at all? After all, Hezbollah and Hamas brag that they are not for defense, but for the purposes of terror and conquest.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

I dont think so. Hezb and Hamas are mainstream. HAMAS is chosen to lead in Gaza Strip, Hezbollah has many seats in Lebanese parliament.


who told you "Jews were promised a homeland in the middle east" ??

and when was this?

 

[pak-yes]

who told you "Jews were promised a homeland in the middle east" ??

and when was this?

I think he has turned his own opinion into facts

 

[FreekiN]

Couldn't the Arabs just sanction America? lol that would be pretty epic. It would mean chaos lawl

 

[ARSENAL6]

I don't think the issue of Israel is really that important for Pakistan's national interest.

Perhaps for a more global harmony its an issue as it fuels , Al Qaida but in general Israel , Jewish people do have certain right to live in that land with , Palestinians

Infact

a) Christians b) Muslims c) Jews

[

AZADPAKISTAN2009
nobody agued about jewish poeple living on the lands. Jewish people were living there even when muslim were there.
Its the extermination done by Zionist in Israel on Palisteins that causes this war and hatred against them.
Had they not cause this then we wouldn't have these problems.
The hatred against jews stared recently ie in the 60s.

 

[Developereo]

The Jews were promised a homeland in the middle east decades before that.

The Zionists approached the Ottoman Emperor for a Jewish homeland in Palestine and were refused. At this point, they moved to Plan B, which used clandestine migration and Western colonialism to achieve their goals.

The British actually promised the Arabs a pan-Arab homeland if they rebelled against the Ottoman rulers. Meanwhile, behind the scenes, they promised the Jews a homeland in Palestine.

After the WW2, the US was promoting a stance of self-determination for erstwhile colonial subjects, except in the Middle East, where they specifically exempted the British and the French to carve it up between themselves, and hand over a chunk to create Israel.