Pakistan and Israel

[paritosh]

indian boxers are joke just one win and they think they r best but truely they r nuts amir khan out of 21 fights won 20 is any indian have this type pf record if he is indian than he must be muslim as great mohammad ali was

dude unnecessary...
why do you just talk of boxers?take all athletic sports in consideration...and you'd realize that religion plays no role...the Israelis take home more medals than both India and Pakistan...
and you Amir Khan is a muslim rajput isnt he?

 

[All-Green]

Sir, if you by chance one of those 3 religions you put up were Islam, it would make your statement false.


as i've already posted:


There are many more in the Qur'an. Let's not waste bandwidth now

Cheating and Lying, Killing in Hadith's:






Now, please don't post to me the verses in the Qur'an where is says befriend the non believers, treat the Jews equally..... because that's a definite contradiction from (your) God.

People come to argue, because these religions have differences...... they may have the same roots (excluding Islam) but even in the same religion; there are arguments (look where Christianity is...)

Just my opinion on this thread:
You shouldn't be hating anyone because someone/something told you to hate.... Israel hasn't done anything to Pakistan.

Islam does not sanction unjust killing of anyone.

However if Allah asks his messenger to fight those rejecting the truth who ridicule His messenger and His message when the messenger himself is present amongst them, then that is something totally not applicable to current days...it is the Divine Will pertaining to certain groups whom the Divine knowledge of Allah judged at the time and whose treatment He instructed to his Prophet...all very specific to certain time, event and groups and not generic.

The hadeeth you narrated is false...to kill on basis of hair length...what to say to such nonsense.

Here i was trying to talk about contexts and many verses in Quran specific to certain events and certain groups of people who are not even existent anymore.
However you ignored it and deliberately post stuff you know nothing about except maybe a natural desire to demonize Islam.
I say Natural because you have mostly chosen to see the extremists and their version of Islam and based your judgment on what they preach about.
The fault is both theirs and yours, there are many excellent Indian Muslim scholars as well, why do you not see what they have to say?

If you want to understand better about the message of Islam you can PM me and i can give you some links which will help you truly understand the message which many ignorant people have clouded deliberately for sake of power and war mongering.

You my friend have the choice to at least understand what Islam is before condemning it based on the actions of those who have perverted it.
This is not a theological thread, however if you want P.M. me and i shall guide you to my capability.

 

[Solomon2]

It was Pakistan who send Pilots against Israel in 1967 and 1973.

And how many did Pakistan shoot down? 19? And we didnt lose a single one of Syria's planes or any of our men.

In 1967 the Arab goal wasn't defense, or even just plain conquest, but outright extermination of Israel's Jewish population; you only need examine the pre-war Arab newspapers and cartoons to acknowledge this.

The Pakistani pilots who fought against Israel at the time knew this well. They were not ordered to fight and had the opportunity to go home (and some did); they volunteered to be a part of another attempted genocide of the Jews. And Pakistanis honor these men as heroes, yes?

In this light, isn't it remarkable that Israel has maintained a positive attitude towards Pakistan for sixty years, holding that Pakistanis are simply misguided and not inherently criminal?

 

[pak-yes]

You missed the point.

Its irrelevant how many aircraft we shot down. We made Israel our enemy out of solidarity with Arabs yet Arabs have never send troops to fight our wars with India and also have strengthened relations with India out of purely economic terms.

So why can't Pakistan act like a non-Arab Islamic State and have relations with Israel and yet pressure them to make peace much like Turkey.

Heck, even Egypt and Jordan have relations with Israel.

Why is Pakistan acting more Arab than the Arabs?

Ok Arabs did wrong with us does this mean that we should also do wrong with them .If Arabs have established relations with Israel so we should also.It's a funny logic.You mean we should establish relationship with those who are responsible for the suffering of Palestinian people for the last 6 decades.Who that have turned gaza into the world's largest Prison.I saw a picture somewhere on this site of a burned body of a Palestinian Infant.And it was so horrible picture that many members were demanding it's removal and the banning of the one who posted it.Maybe you should also look at it.

 

[Developereo]

The Arab governments don't give a damn about the Palestinians.

Palestinians have rampant unemployment -- exceeding 75% in some areas -- yet the oil rich Arab countries hire workers from Phillipines, Vietnam, India and elsewhere. Why can't they hire fellow Arab Palestinian workers instead?

 

[Solomon2]

Why can't they hire fellow Arab Palestinian workers instead?

Because the Arab war on Israel is about securing the rule of Arab despots through war and conquest; the human suffering of Palestinians is just a form of cover. Ever watch a magic show? The magician succeeds because the audience has their eyes on the girl, not the magicians hands. This is the same thing, with dead and suffering humans taking the place of the girl.

 

[macnurv]

To all the respected members, please read this and remember. ISRAEL is not friend to any country on this planet, there mentality is simply us vs. them and them includes every one else. I would go on and on regarding why should Pakistan not recognize state of Israel as long as Palestinians are not given their due rights, but to begin with the whole existence of this oppressive murderous state is based on a biblical claim with no historical or archeological connection to the lands of Palestine.
To better understand the Israeli mentality a good start would be reading "By way of Deception" by Victor Ostrovsky, a former mossad case officer or KATSA. Few people here might say its loads of bollocks but one must read truth between the lines. I have PDF version of that book if any one wants to read it I can provide the links.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Amir Khan is a muslim rajput isnt he?

That makes him indian not to forget other muslim rajputs of PAKISTAN?

 

[Solomon2]

please read this and remember. ISRAEL is not friend to any country on this planet -

No matter what the facts are, you just gotta believe!

the whole existence of this oppressive murderous state is based on a biblical claim with no historical or archeological connection -

You appear to be poorly informed on these matters.

To better understand the Israeli mentality a good start would be reading "By way of Deception" by Victor Ostrovsky -

I have the very same book, it's a good read.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

In 1967 the Arab goal wasn't defense, or even just plain conquest, but outright extermination of Israel's Jewish population; you only need examine the pre-war Arab newspapers and cartoons to acknowledge this.

The Pakistani pilots who fought against Israel at the time knew this well. They were not ordered to fight and had the opportunity to go home (and some did); they volunteered to be a part of another attempted genocide of the Jews. And Pakistanis honor these men as heroes, yes?

In this light, isn't it remarkable that Israel has maintained a positive attitude towards Pakistan for sixty years, holding that Pakistanis are simply misguided and not inherently criminal?

Solomon i bet your jewish.
2)PAF pilot shot isreali bandits not some jew people.
3)Were you getting massive support from EU,UK,and USA?
4)Yeah we do honor them HONORABLE AND RESPECTED SOULS who fought for the rights of Muslim people.
5)Dont talk about extermination when the first organised israeli army was the one who MASSACRED an entire MUSLIM VILLAGE at TANTURA.

 

[Solomon2]

1) Yes, indeed. But I'm an American, not an Israeli.
2) Israel is a democracy, not a military dictatorship; its military aren't "bandits" in business to rob the weak.
3) In 1967 EU didn't exist, nor massive U.S. support, Israel didn't have much support from Britain, and France was switching to supporting the Arabs.
4) Actually, I do doubt that you "honor them HONORABLE AND RESPECTED SOULS who fought for the rights of Muslim people"; Israel offers greater civil rights for Arabs of any state, save perhaps today's Iraq.
5) There is enough manufactured or mis-characterized stuff out there about Israel already; why add to it? "After checking and re-checking the evidence, it is clear to me now, beyond any doubt, that there is no basis whatsoever for the allegation that the Alexandroni Brigade, or any other fighting unit of the Jewish forces, committed killing of people in Tantura after the village surrendered." link If Jews had concentrated their efforts on massacring the Muslim populace, how do you explain the fact that Israel hosts a substantial Arab and Muslim citizenry, or the continued existence and growth of the Arab and Muslim population in Gaza and the West Bank?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Solomon read a book by MR. SYLVAIN CYPEL labelled WALLED israeli society at an impasse. May be you will see a reflection of your and your so called oppressed society. SHAME

 

[Solomon2]

Sylvain Cypel opposes Israel politically. But that ought not have stopped him from writing intelligently about Israeli society.

Unfortunately, this book is simply too misleading to be of much value. There's plenty of material. The reasoning, however, is uneven, with Israelis occasionally appearing to do manifestly counterproductive things for no reason at all. And many of the facts are simply wrong. Yes, there is ample ill will towards Israel, but that's not the main problem.

At one point, Cypel quotes Daniel Dor as saying "If there were a wholesale Israeli withdrawal" and "if a Truth and Reconciliation Commission were set up, people - a lot of them - would spontaneously begin to tell the truth."

Well, as we've seen, Israeli withdrawals have led to more violence and less truth. And I feel that if Israelis are ethnically cleansed from the West Bank, that probably won't help. On the other hand, I suspect that a genuine Truth and Reconciliation would help a great deal. After all, one of the big reasons that there's no peace is that many people simply are not exposing the barrage of ridiculous anti-Israeli lies we see at the UN, in some of the media, and in some of academia. If people did begin to tell the truth and report it, that could make an enormous difference. It is scary that Cypel appears to hope that such a Commission would instead come up with even more demonizing untruths. Cypel praises Ed Said's afactual nonsense, and he has plenty of criticism in this book for those who speak out in favor of what is best described as facts and reason.

Plenty of anti-Israeli propaganda simply amounts to arbitrary demonization. Yet Cypel does not tend to speak out against such propaganda, and at times merely repeats it. Maybe the worst example is the long discussion of Tantura. That's something I would stay away from. At worst, Tantura is simply a blood libel against Israel. At the very best, it is a set of highly dubious accusations that are probably bogus. Surely, any statement of what one wants, and any argument about what needs to be done does not have to depend on material that is so highly suspect. And it makes me wonder why there is a tendency for some anti-Israeli authors to make great use of such accusations.

I think the reason is that lies sting more than truth. Even serious accusations sting less if they are true. That's because even the worst deeds, no matter how bad they may be, can simply be admitted and confessed to. And that's often the end of them. On the other hand, lies often appear to require a response. And that may be why those who wish to bait and taunt those they wish to oppose often stick with afactual libels.

In any case, Cypel put in plenty of work on this book, and perhaps we ought to leave it in the bookstores. I do not recommend it.
link

 

[Hammy007]

at Mercenary

man you cannot get any worse than this, can u??

i think accepting israel is to let these zionists sully our land by letting them entering our pak land by letting these rats to start their massive mossad propaganda and to control and blackmail our authority. we already have enough od CIA already.

we are muslims and we dont want to beg no one least of all jews to support our defence by embracing their illegal existance

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

And israeli a tiny nation fought arabs without US OR EU SUPPORT? WHAT A BLOODY JOKE
Soloman what about the time when israeli forces let the christians massacre muslims in there presence and ok what about the present massacre of muslims in GAZA? you killed 1400 people how many of them were terrorists what about the use of white phosphorus?
Those who oppose unhumane acts of zoints isrealis are either fools or misleading while you guy can only exploite the HALLOCAUST to cover up those massacres that ANIMAL ISRAELIS COMMIT.
SHAME ON THOSE WHO EXPLOITE TO COVER UP THERE ANIMAL MENTALITY AND FOR POLITICAL GAINS
WARNING ITS GRAPHIC

Ehud barak compared israel as a villa in a jungle.
Many israeli leaders have a habit of using animal analogies;THE ARABS ARE PROLIFICATING JERUSALEM LIKE ANTS= FORMER sephardic grand rabbi Ovadia yossef in 20o1 during a sermon in tisha Bv
If u still cant see THE ANIMAL NATURE OF A ZOININST THATS A SHAME