Pakistan Air Force To Gain Superiority Over Indian Air Force

[The Great One]

Read the link i gave earlier...Gosh you are stiff

Chinese Military Aviation | China Air Force

Naah. Still nothing yet on data fusion. I'm gonna simply take it that it doesn't have it. The first link doesn't even mention any fighter jet, let alone JF-17.
Data fusion or not, wasn't the main argument anyway. Their are still other things which they haven't yet shown any proof of.

 

[yyetttt]

Indian media is funny.... They like to curse India and bend over to Pakistan... Go Indian MEDIA!!!!!

 

[Pakistanisage]

Whatever... this might help speeding up IAF modernization. After army chief letter the tank ammo was purchased and recently M777 as well.

But PAF 26 sqn Vs IAF 31 sqn would imbalance the force.We need 50 sqn at least.

Why ? Because you need two Indian fighter pilots to face upto one Pakistani Fighter Pilot ?

 

[Vritra]

This is just a comparison of general capability, not numbers, and the article is all about this capability nothing more. What PAF has gained in last 5-6 years is leaps and bounds better then what she ever had whereas IAF had most of the capabilities since 15-18 years (MKI fighters, MICA, Derby BVRs, AARs,), only Phalcon was inducted after 2000. This is where the gap has been decreased with IAF however, squadron numbers can be increased in due time.

Su-30MKIs have technically only been in service with the IAF since 2002-2003. While the development and production contract was signed in 1997, the first aircraft delivered from Russia were only Su-30Ks and Su-30MKs. Some of those were returned, while others (few in number) were upgraded to MKI standards. Basically, the Su-30MKI procurement and growth has run almost parallely with PAF F-16 MLU upgrades and Block 52 acquirement. Due to larger numbers, the MKI project has taken longer.


Also, Derby missiles are just mid-range missiles, not BVRAAMs no matter what they claim.

While Pakistan have certainly closed the gap, technologically and fleet-strength wise, you have to note that India's development plan changed around the early 2000s, when it became clear that the Tejas would not be ready in time for MiG-21 replacements. Suddenly there's a lot of money pouring into the nation, so the MRCA tender was started. PAK FA co-development was approved. Various aircraft upgrades approved and performed. More utility, transport aircraft bought. Etc. Etc.

The focus for the IAF has had to be more widespread than that of the PAF, and also based on a longer timeline. Delays haven't made things any easier, nor where they actually accounted for. So while a comparison between the PAF's and IAF's capabilities are all fine, it is as much due to PAF's accelerated growth as it is to the IAF's controlled growth and unforeseen delays.

 

[Bhim]

Hamara media bhi na Hammari faade rakhta hai..Pakistan ki to jaroorat hi nahi, hamare hoonsle kam karne ki...

 

[baajey]

Why ? Because you need two Indian fighter pilots to face upto one Pakistani Fighter Pilot ?

yes...but how did u know ????
i have heard that pakistani fighter planes are immune to radar, A2A missiles and can perform 40 Gs in bare undies. is that true too ?

 

[baajey]

in any case, Pakistan was n Pakistan is very capable of matching upto IAF considering IAF has to look after two fronts while PAF has to worry about only one. morever their Thunder looks good enuf for their purpose....cheap but effective. morever their track record is, well, better than their counterparts in india.
induction of rest of MKIs , rafales , reconaisance aircrafts (and hopefully LCA mk2, FGFA, .......AMCA), apaches, however, will surely tip the balance in indias favor.
adios amigos

 

[explorer9]

Who is best amongst Pakistani Mirage -3,5 with ROSE up gradation or current Indian fleet of Mirage 2000...

 

[MiG-21]

ROSE is a Air to Ground upgrade. ROSE stands for (Retrofit Of Strike Element). PAF Mirage-3 has no Matra Super 530d BVR missile, while our Mirage-2000 can launch BVRs. PAF Mirage-5 is not even a fighter. It doesn't even have a radar! Mirage-5 is more or less equal to our MiG-27. Mirage-3 can be taken care of by MiG-21 Bison easily, let alone a Mirage-2000.

 

[Dazzler]

in any case, Pakistan was n Pakistan is very capable of matching upto IAF considering IAF has to look after two fronts while PAF has to worry about only one. morever their Thunder looks good enuf for their purpose....cheap but effective. morever their track record is, well, better than their counterparts in india.
induction of rest of MKIs , rafales , reconaisance aircrafts (and hopefully LCA mk2, FGFA, .......AMCA), apaches, however, will surely tip the balance in indias favor.
adios amigos

Two notable factors that narrowed this gap...

1. rapid modernization plans by PAF and arrival of jf-17, blk 52s, MLUs, Awacs, AAR within a span of 6 years...

2. Initial IAF plan was an effective manual to maintain their edge over PAF but repeated delays in LCA induction and finalizing the MRCA contract has not gone well when many IAF fighters are in a dire need of replacement. This delay is likely to be extended for few more years..

Indian government MUST facilitate the IAF here because they are losing edge rapidly. They planned to retire the Mig 21, 27 by the end of 2010 IIRC but delays are hurting them.

ROSE is a Air to Ground upgrade. ROSE stands for (Retrofit Of Strike Element). PAF Mirage-3 has no Matra Super 530d BVR missile, while our Mirage-2000 can launch BVRs. PAF Mirage-5 is not even a fighter. It doesn't even have a radar! Mirage-5 is more or less equal to our MiG-27. Mirage-3 can be taken care of by MiG-21 Bison easily, let alone a Mirage-2000.

Actually, Mirage 5PA2 and PA3 (Naval Aviation) are fitted with Thales Agave Radar which is mated with AM-39 Exocet antiship missile.

Here is a good thread on PAF Mirage ROSE upgrade and related developments...


http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/44991-capabilities-paf-mirage-3-5-a.html

 

[rockstarIN]

Su-30MKIs have technically only been in service with the IAF since 2002-2003. While the development and production contract was signed in 1997, the first aircraft delivered from Russia were only Su-30Ks and Su-30MKs. Some of those were returned, while others (few in number) were upgraded to MKI standards. Basically, the Su-30MKI procurement and growth has run almost parallely with PAF F-16 MLU upgrades and Block 52 acquirement. Due to larger numbers, the MKI project has taken longer.


Also, Derby missiles are just mid-range missiles, not BVRAAMs no matter what they claim.

While Pakistan have certainly closed the gap, technologically and fleet-strength wise, you have to note that India's development plan changed around the early 2000s, when it became clear that the Tejas would not be ready in time for MiG-21 replacements. Suddenly there's a lot of money pouring into the nation, so the MRCA tender was started. PAK FA co-development was approved. Various aircraft upgrades approved and performed. More utility, transport aircraft bought. Etc. Etc.

The focus for the IAF has had to be more widespread than that of the PAF, and also based on a longer timeline. Delays haven't made things any easier, nor where they actually accounted for. So while a comparison between the PAF's and IAF's capabilities are all fine, it is as much due to PAF's accelerated growth as it is to the IAF's controlled growth and unforeseen delays.

All BVRs operating now are in mid range, how can you argue that Derby is not a BVR?

 

[The Great One]

Two notable factors that narrowed this gap...

1. rapid modernization plans by PAF and arrival of jf-17, blk 52s, MLUs, Awacs, AAR within a span of 6 years...

2. Initial IAF plan was an effective manual to maintain their edge over PAF but repeated delays in LCA induction and finalizing the MRCA contract has not gone well when many IAF fighters are in a dire need of replacement. This delay is likely to be extended for few more years..

Indian government MUST facilitate the IAF here because they are losing edge rapidly. They planned to retire the Mig 21, 27 by the end of 2010 IIRC but delays are hurting them.

Mig 21Bisons are to be retired starting from 2017. Mig 21Bis are already being retired. Mig 27 still have some life left in them for this decade. Whether they neeed to be retired is a different issue.
PAF has remarkably pulled it back, but the extent of that isn't what you imagine. Again, MKI alone outnumbers all 4 gen jets by twice. Needless to say, Pakistan has a pi$$-poor SAM network which will be vapourised shortly. Brahmos and Shourya alone can cause massive damage to Pakistani AFB's which will be matched by repeated bombing runs with MKI, Jags, Mig-27, Mirage, Mig29. And soon [2-3 y]to be inducted are Tejas and Rafale till which PAF may be gaining on IAF.

 

[MiG-21]

Actually, Mirage 5PA2 and PA3 (Naval Aviation) are fitted with Thales Agave Radar which is mated with AM-39 Exocet antiship missile.

Here is a good thread on PAF Mirage ROSE upgrade and related developments...

Ah! So they were Mirage-5! Thought they were 3s. wow, so the Maritime Mirage-5 have a radar, and more so have the same radars as Maritime Jaguars. IAF Maritime Jaguars too have Agave radar. lol the french have been double dealing selling the same stuff. Agave is not a Air-Air BVR radar, but very good in sea scan and ground attack.

 

[Vritra]

All BVRs operating now are in mid range, how can you argue that Derby is not a BVR?

Let me clarify: Its BVR to the extent that it engages enemies outside of the distance a human eye can perceive, but apart from that, its range is more in MICA/R-73 territory than active BVRs like AMRAAM/RVV-AEs. 40km+ as range is fairly low for your average BVRAAM.

 

[SQ8]

Let me clarify: Its BVR to the extent that it engages enemies outside of the distance a human eye can perceive, but apart from that, its range is more in MICA/R-73 territory than active BVRs like AMRAAM/RVV-AEs. 40km+ as range is fairly low for your average BVRAAM.

Initial Aim-120's started with 40km+ as their stated range.
Moreover, ranges of BVR's are never stated as exact.. hence the "+" in the middle.
for eg.. the Sd-10's exact range is never stated by PAF officials..
Only said to be better than the Aim-120B..