Pakistan Air Force To Gain Superiority Over Indian Air Force

[muse]

The substance of this thread is :

Ever since the current Prime Minister Man Mohan Singh took his office for a second term in 2009, the defence scene has remained murky and problematic for the Indian government

.

And to make this charge (read mud) stick, the ridiculous claim that the PAF will gain superiority of IAF within a couple of years

 

[Nitin Goyal]

which air superiority fighter jets pakistan have ?

 

[DrSomnath999]

another claim without evidence, can you prove it? Phalcon is definitely among the best out there but how can you say it is better then Erieye which is being used by 5-6 nations worldwide?

WELL it's a matter of simple common sense

The Phalcon's triangular radar array would be mounted on the rear quarter fuselage of the Il-76 to provide full 360° scan coverage & it can also track targets

meanwhile ERIEYE has a large aperture, dual-sided antenna array housed in a dorsal 'plank' fairing.
Sabb-2000 AEW&C can provide surveillance in 160° broadside sector on both sides of the AEW&C. Erieye has capability to search the targets in the 20° sectors fore and aft of the Saab-2000 AEW&C but its can not track its targets in forward and aft directions.

Erieye AEW&C Airborne Early Warning & Control mission system radar (Sweden) - Jane's Avionics

 

[DrSomnath999]

Rafale is good but has been rejected by UAE, Singapore on grounds of less innovation and huge cost. It will not bring something drastic to the region as was the case with MKI when IAF inducted it.

Excuse me!!!!
DO U know what ur saying
,if thats the case go & ask PAF officials why PAF was dying to to have french avionics & Mica missiles .
Now see why rafale rulez in all 4th or 4.5 gen fighters

1)DUTCH EVALUATION EVALUATION REPORT IN 2001

Avion de chasse: les Pays-Bas ont-ils favorisé le F-35 ? - bruxelles2 Europe de la Défense
Dedefensa.org : To The Point, Context n°50 (March-April 2002) - The Road to Chaos and The Dutch Way

2)SWITZERLAND, LEAKED EVALUATION REPORT:
I) NWA PHASE I 2008 ANALYSIS WITH REAL FLIGHT TRIALS:

II)NWA PHASE II 2009 ANALYSIS WITH REAL FLIGHT TRIALS:

http://kovy.free.fr/temp/rafale/pdf/12332.pdf
http://lignesdedefense.blogs.ouest-france.fr/files/rapport suisse.pdf
Rafale News: Switzerland, Evaluation report quick analysis

3)RAFALE'S SUPERB PERFORMANCE IN AERIAL EXERCISE WITH MIRAGE 2000 & f16:

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/fi...resse/lbg07/defense/rafale/foxThree_nr_10.pdf

RAFALE THRASHING TYPHOON 9-1 in Solenzara, 2009.

A first indisputable skirmish

The Armée de l' Air has been able to experience this superiority in dogfight in September 2009, during an exercise organized by the French and British headquarters, during a deployment on the Solenzara airbase in Corsica.

Few days , the EC-1/7 stands next with the Royal Air Force transformation squadron on typhoons. The English have thought of everything, and introduce to the French pilots the simulated engagement patterns they wish to practice facing the Rafale. The French pilots push back a smile: the conditions of the exercice are, on paper, custom-made for the Typhoons , they plan within visual range fights , 1 vs 1, under 20,000 ft and at 350 knots. Whatever. The 'Provence' squadron takes up the gauntlet ... The 2 planes take off, then meet up at 18 000 ft to start the exercise. The aircraft are flying on the same trajectory with about 2 km of lateral separation. "Turn Away" with this announcement, the pilots turn 45 ° outward, to move away from each other. A few seconds later, the "turn in" and the planes turn toward each other to meet face-to-face in the sky. Once both aircraft is within visual range , its the ultimate ad: "Fight's on!". The first skirmish is indisputable. It need less than 40 seconds and only 3 crossing for the Rafale pilot to have its gun in firing position. However, the pilots flying the two planes are far from beginners. While the English is considered a Typhoon specialist in air-to-air, the "Provence" pilot has also a solid experience in within visual range combat.

Nine wins, one defeat

This initial result is not a fluke: the two next passes end also to the advantage of the Rafale. In total, 4 different engagements will take place in Corsica, for a total of 9 wins against 1 defeat for the french fighter. A nice demonstration of force that inspires the pilots the following moral: without mastery, power is nothing ... It is however an area where the Typhoon is victorious: the one of exports. While the Rafale is still looking for a first client, the Typhoon has already been sold to Saudi Arabia and Austria, and remains opposed to the Rafale in Switzerland and India.

Rafale News - Page 101

 

[DrSomnath999]

jf-17 has it from blk 2 onwards, J-20, j-10A and later already has it, sensors that are usually externally mounted, are fused within the aircraft. F-16 blk 60 is an example, so is Rafale, EF-2000, Su-35, F-35 and F-22 etc



http://www.isif.org/fusion/proceedings/fusion03CD/special/s97.pdf

jf 17 would have been a different bird if it had french avionics & sensor suite ,but !!!!!ALAS

well readers enjoy this cool video why RAFALE 's avionics & sensor suite is so special

You are looking at around 700-800 Mordern Fighter Jets. Since India is a much bigger country, it needs to protect from Pakistan and China (2 enemies)

yes thats the point
we have to think about 2 enemies & china is a serious threat but PAF 's best chance would be india diverting it's main fighters to
eastern front like RAFALE & PAK FA in future

meanwhile SU 30 mki + LCA in western front

of course my views are skeptical about deployment of jets ,well it can be refuted though.

 

[Vritra]

Excuse me!!!!


--snip--

Good post, Somnath jee. Just use that as a template in the future to respond to people who suggest Rafale isn't up to the mark

 

[DrSomnath999]

The topic is, "Pakistan Air Force To Gain Superiority Over Indian Air Force" and whatever i said was in the context of this topic. I only tried to reply those who agree or disagree which is their right understandably. The benchmark is the decade of 90s where the edge favoured IAF when su-30 was inducted.

it would also continue in future when rafale would be inducted forget PAKFA for a mean while as it may be delayed

IAF / PAF

4th gen fighter........Y 4th gen fighter........Y





BVRs.............Y BVRs.............Y


AWACS..........Y AWACS..........Y

AARs.............Y AARs..........Y

C4I/ Netcentric warfare capability....Y C4I/ Netcentric warfare capability....Y

but what about UAV 's numerical & technology advantage of india like's of HAROP & HARPY
similarly combat helicopter advantage with APACHE ,LCH
Ultra long range BVRAAM KS 172 novator AWACS killer
advanced SAM like SPYDER & AKASH SAM
More experienced BVR warfare skilled pilots

This is just a comparison of general capability, not numbers, and the article is all about this capability nothing more. What PAF has gained in last 5-6 years is leaps and bounds better then what she ever had whereas IAF had most of the capabilities since 15-18 years (MKI fighters, MICA, Derby BVRs, AARs,), only Phalcon was inducted after 2000. This is where the gap has been decreased with IAF however, squadron numbers can be increased in due time.

well squadron strength would increase so do techology & more advanced platforms with capabilty more superior than it's predecessors.Well so do the gap would increase but right now PAF has somehow reduced the GAP than in nineties.

PAF already working with China on J-21/ FC-2 as it was proposed to PAF as their next gen stealth/ low observable fighter. T-50 will not feel lonely.

Lets hope so ,

Good post, Somnath jee. Just use that as a template in the future to respond to people who suggest Rafale isn't up to the mark

a very warm welcome to my dear I D F friend Vitra ,
well keep posting buddy ur a good poster ,i wish u can do the same good job as u did in I D F

REGARDS

Why ? Because you need two Indian fighter pilots to face upto one Pakistani Fighter Pilot ?

lolllz of course

usually all air superiority fighters of India
like SU 30 mki & rafale are twin seater aircraft compare to all air superiority fighter of pakistan F16 & JF17

Two notable factors that narrowed this gap...

1. rapid modernization plans by PAF and arrival of jf-17, blk 52s, MLUs, Awacs, AAR within a span of 6 years...

2. Initial IAF plan was an effective manual to maintain their edge over PAF but repeated delays in LCA induction and finalizing the MRCA contract has not gone well when many IAF fighters are in a dire need of replacement. This delay is likely to be extended for few more years..

Indian government MUST facilitate the IAF here because they are losing edge rapidly. They planned to retire the Mig 21, 27 by the end of 2010 IIRC but delays are hurting them.

the most sensible post by u in the entire thread thats why i liked this post of urs

 

[Su-11]

Indian government MUST facilitate the IAF here because they are losing edge rapidly. They planned to retire the Mig 21, 27 by the end of 2010 IIRC but delays are hurting them.

the most sensible post by u in the entire thread thats why i liked this post of urs

..........

 

[Alphacharlie]

Such articles are often raised in media to get more funds.

1 Su 30 MKI has 12 Racks which means 12 Missiles = 4 Mig 21 type 57, type 75 or Mirage 3.

This articles exlcudes Naval Aviation. Its better close this Topic doesnt make any Positive Contribution.

 

[manofwar]

yeah?? The lightweight JF 17 with no AESA radar and no TVC gonna shoot an upgraded Mig 29 SMT with a very powerful PESA radar, latest ,matured avionics and upgraded engine ??
I don't think so.............
Heck you don't even have an integrated BVR missile in JF 17 yet!!!

Patriotism is good mate, but this is taking it to the low of insensibility and stupidity......

NOTE: there seems to be some problem in the system....I can't get the quote......

 

[Black Widow]

wait a minute,
1. pakistan has edge in air forces, earlier they had only super pilots, now they have quality and quantitive elge.
2. pakistan has better missiles than india, it always had.
3. pakistani nuke is superior coz it is religious bomb.
4. Pak army is fill of courage coz they are soldier of allah.

....

hmmm....
some one remember kargil, it has happen recently.

 

[manofwar]

got the quote finally....

Why ? Because you need two Indian fighter pilots to face upto one Pakistani Fighter Pilot ?

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...ty-over-indian-air-force-9.html#ixzz1vuQCjNpt

 

[arp2041]

eastern front like RAFALE & PAK FA in future

meanwhile SU 30 mki + LCA in western front

of course my views are skeptical about deployment of jets ,well it can be refuted though.

with larger combat radius & in flight refueling capability i don't think there is any problem on which front our fighters are placed.

 

[sancho]

yeah?? The lightweight JF 17 with no AESA radar and no TVC gonna shoot an upgraded Mig 29 SMT with a very powerful PESA radar, latest ,matured avionics and upgraded engine ??
I don't think so.............
Heck you don't even have an integrated BVR missile in JF 17 yet!!!

Patriotism is good mate, but this is taking it to the low of insensibility and stupidity......

NOTE: there seems to be some problem in the system....I can't get the quote......

Buddy, that goes both ways, especially if the points you make contradicts yourself!

- it's true that JF 17 currently has no AESA and no TVC, but neither has the Mig 29UPG, moreover it has no PESA radar either. The Zhuk ME is a pulse doppler radar, just like the KJ7
- most of the avionics in JF 17 are the same generation as in the Migs, the engines are even versions of each other with the same thrust
- JF 17 has SD 10A integrated, so that's not an argument either


However, the topic wasn't if JF 17 will be superior to IAF fighters, which it doesn't, but if the falling squadron numbers in IAF and the faster modernisation rate in PAF will make the latter superior and that's something we have to look at without beeing blinded by patriotism as well!
PAF will be way more capable and closer to IAF till 2015, than they were in 1999, in certain fields they already have the upper hand, but they won't surpass IAF in techs and capabilities (especially not at the hi level of the fighter fleet) and IAF is already planing ahead for 2020 and beyond to counter bigger threats than PAF.

 

[nwmalik]

intentional leaks to cause fear and get bigger defence budget.