Pakistan Air Force To Gain Superiority Over Indian Air Force

[rockstarIN]

Let me clarify: Its BVR to the extent that it engages enemies outside of the distance a human eye can perceive, but apart from that, its range is more in MICA/R-73 territory than active BVRs like AMRAAM/RVV-AEs. 40km+ as range is fairly low for your average BVRAAM.

Range is very much related to altitude. These RVV-AE & Armraam will be fired in the same range too. 40-60 km range.

 

[Vritra]

Range is very much related to altitude.

So is the velocity of the launch vehicle. When launched at supersonic speeds, the range of the missile is significantly extended.

These RVV-AE & Armraam will be fired in the same range too. 40-60 km range.

Depends on the launch vehicle, once again. If its radar is powerful enough to guide the missile to a target 80+ KM away, it will. If the rocket motor can sustain a burn to achieve enough inertia to propel the missile to long enough ranges, it is utilized as such.

The Derby's motor doesn't permit such extended ranges, nor can the AR seeker track beyond a certain range.

 

[rockstarIN]

So is the velocity of the launch vehicle. When launched at supersonic speeds, the range of the missile is significantly extended.




Depends on the launch vehicle, once again. If its radar is powerful enough to guide the missile to a target 80+ KM away, it will. If the rocket motor can sustain a burn to achieve enough inertia to propel the missile to long enough ranges, it is utilized as such.

The Derby's motor doesn't permit such extended ranges, nor can the AR seeker track beyond a certain range.

Its your opinion or? get a source that it can't go more than 60-70km at high altitudes.

 

[Vritra]

Its your opinion or?

Let's see....

Debry has an active radar homing missile with an estimated effective combat range of 20km against a closing target and 10km against a target moving away. Despite repeated claims to the contrary Derby is in no way comparable to the R-77, MICA or AMRAAM.

You might also find this interesting:

It seems, however, that this all was not as important for the designers of the Derby. On the contrary, this weapon covers the gap between such medium-range missiles, like AIM-7 Sparrow, AIM-120 AMRAAM, or R-27/AA-10, and short-range missiles, like AIM-9 Sidewinder. Derby offers a wider engagement envelope over shorter ranges and is completely independent from the launching platform upon being fired, which makes it ideal for high-speed, and brisk engagements in areas less well covered by the ground control or AEW aircraft and helicopters.

From here.

get a source that it can't go more than 60-70km at high altitudes.

Get a source that says it can.

 

[sancho]

Get a source that says it can.

Most sources says around 50Km and that's normal medium BVR range, similar to earlier Aim 120 (50 to 80Km), MICA (60 to 70Km), or SD 10A (70Km). The long range BVR missiles were added later only with the lastest Aim 120D, Russian counterparts and now METEOR. Even Astra is reported with a current range between 40 and 50Km only, while the goal is 80Km or more in later stages. So Derby is indeed a BVR missile, but since the Israelis didn't developed further upgrades of it, it remaind with the initial range specs.
There are news now from Israel, that they want to develop a new BVR missile, based on the Stunner missile and with 2 x different seekers at the same missile, not to mention way more range.

 

[DrSomnath999]

Get a source that says it can.

http://www.vayuaerospace.in/images1/M-MRCA-The_contending_missiles.pdf

 

[Vritra]

Most sources says around 50Km and that's normal medium BVR range, similar to earlier Aim 120 (50 to 80Km), MICA (60 to 70Km), or SD 10A (70Km).

Which is what the ACIG article addresses: the range of the Derby has been portrayed as longer than it actually is. Look at it this way: considering it uses an Python rocket engine adapted for slower burn, it simply isn't heavy enough to contain enough propellant to take it as far as a newer AMRAAM. The early varaint, sure. But considering the generation of its inception, that is a little like comparing an Archer to a Sparrow.

Most sources claim a 50km range, but it can be inferred that the range given is an A-pole figure: so the performance is unlikely to increase at higher altitudes. The ACIG article also suggests, as do analysts on DID, that the figure is likely an exaggeration: its performance head-on is closer to 30km, and about 1/3 on a tail chase. That's not too much more impressive than most modern WVRAAMs.

The long range BVR missiles were added later only with the lastest Aim 120D, Russian counterparts and now METEOR. Even Astra is reported with a current range between 40 and 50Km only, while the goal is 80Km or more in later stages. So Derby is indeed a BVR missile, but since the Israelis didn't developed further upgrades of it, it remaind with the initial range specs.

Technically, anything with a range over 10km is BVR.

But the point is, this missile is more of a bridge between the short-range Pythons and the longer range AMRAAMS. Even with the LCA, Derby missiles will be superseded by the Astra, or possibly the T-50 variant of the RVV-AE. Or, depending on the IAF's feelings about it and the radar used, even the Meteor.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not questioning the validity of the Derby as a missile. What I am saying is that it isn't actually the BVR the maker is trying to portray it as.

There are news now from Israel, that they want to develop a new BVR missile, based on the Stunner missile and with 2 x different seekers at the same missile, not to mention way more range.

Yes, I saw that: they've taken the MICA/R-27 concept even further. Twin seekers in one, that's going to be hard to shake off when its on your tail. But, with Raytheon's involvement... I doubt India will be able to purchase it for use on our aircraft.

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r598/DrSomnath999/RAFAELDERBY.jpg
http://www.vayuaerospace.in/images1/M-MRCA-The_contending_missiles.pdf

Already been addressed in my previous statements.

 

[arp2041]

Hamara media bhi na Hammari faade rakhta hai..Pakistan ki to jaroorat hi nahi, hamare hoonsle kam karne ki...

"beharo ko sunane ke liye dhamake ki jarorat hoti hai", yeh Indian media hi hai jiski vajah se govt. thoda jaldi kaam kar leti hey nahi toh vo sotey rahe, remember army chief letter made public, bina uske howitzers, pilatus etc. ki deal kaise hoti??

 

[arp2041]

The Indian Airforce is so horrible, it's an insult we were behind. But then again, one plane of ours manned by a Mujahid can beat over 50 of your planes!

pls write something which you yourself believe, pls don't be in a world of fantasy & see the facts & figures & than write anything (it will take just a little more time ). At least it is better than writing this ****.

 

[Ammyy]

Almost 18-22 MKIs per year for IAF with compare to same number of JF17 for PAF ..... how the hell IAF loosing edge ????

I wish Pakistan induct only Chinese planes....

 

[sancho]

Almost 18-22 MKIs per year for IAF with compare to same number of JF17 for PAF ..... how the hell IAF loosing edge ????

As explained earlier, because MKIs don't replace all the Mig 21s that we phase out now, these fighters will be replaced in the next 10 years with LCA and MMRCA.

 

[arp2041]

Almost 18-22 MKIs per year for IAF with compare to same number of JF17 for PAF ..... how the hell IAF loosing edge ????

I wish Pakistan induct only Chinese planes....

Maybe a plan of Indian govt. to paint a very scary picture of IAF for Indians (which will of course be very rosy picture for Pakistanis) & when the war comes, PAF will see those planes which they never imagined.......

 

[Ammyy]

As explained earlier, because MKIs don't replace all the Mig 21s that we phase out now, these fighters will be replaced in the next 10 years with LCA and MMRCA.

But how they start to gain Superiority with 18 odd F16 and with Chinese JF17 ???

On the same time IAF inducting MKIs (much better). If they are upgrading their F16s so we are our MIG29 and Mirage .....

 

[Hulk]

But how they start to gain Superiority with 18 odd F16 and with Chinese JF17 ???

On the same time IAF inducting MKIs (much better). If they are upgrading their F16s so we are our MIG29 and Mirage .....

I agree I do not see them getting air superiority. Where it started was that our numbers are going down, agreed but then we are losing more old fighters but inducting new fighters. The numbers will also go up in next 5 years,.

 

[sancho]

But how they start to gain Superiority with 18 odd F16 and with Chinese JF17 ???

On the same time IAF inducting MKIs (much better). If they are upgrading their F16s so we are our MIG29 and Mirage .....

Superiority in certain fields and possibly even in numbers + faster pace of moderinsation, while IAF will remain to have superior aircrafts in general and a higher technological level, check my earlier post:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...rity-over-indian-air-force-6.html#post2965860