Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[Code_Geass]

i dont think IAF has 1000+ fighter jets

Not possible

 

[Ultima Thule]

i dont think IAF has 1000+ fighter jets

750-800 fighter jets excluding support aircraft @Code_Geass

 

[Nasr]

no worries. not that critical.

According to the South China Morning Post

, China has decided that the the Chengdu J-20 fighter will be developed further to operate from the country’s aircraft carriers. An anonymous military source says the Central Military Commission is favoring the J-20 over Shenyang FC-31. The J-20 was announced combat ready in July. It is listed in China’s latest national defense white paper as one of the new, high-tech weapons the Chinese military has commissioned.

Pakistan should take over the F31 program from china

Its first foreign customer is likely to be Pakistani AF, which has been planning its own 4th generation stealth fighter based on FC-31 since late 2017.

View attachment 576424

The FC-31 program would be the ideal choice for Pakistan Air Force, provided that the aircraft has engines which provide 120KN of thrust (each), have a lifespan of 2800-3000 hours and are made in China. Pakistan Air Force would need to induct these aircraft fast if it wants to operate stealth jets before the enemy does. Pakistan Air Force can take similar approach as they did with the Thunder, however with the FC-31, the program is already well underway, so Pakistan Air Force would look to incorporate as much as it's own specifications as possible by becoming a major stake holder in the program. Fleet size - 90/110 aircraft.

JF-17 Thunder's future Blocks, perhaps Block-IV or V, must have larger air-frame and must have more powerful engines which have longer lifespan. Anyone who says that it isn't possible, is living in neverland. Boeing's F/A-18 E/F Super Hornets, Saab's JAS-39 Gripen-NG and Mitsubishi's F-2 Kai would slap that argument that airframes cannot be made larger on an already designed and produced aircraft, right back in your faces. Fleet size - 300 aircraft.

F-16 Fighting Falcon's future in Pakistan Air Force has one of two options. Either we buy more used F-16s with substantial airframe hours left in them, are upgraded to at least Block-52 standards and have airframe life extention work done on them. This used fleet buy-up can only work, provided that Pakistan Air Force can manage to stockpile large reserves of essential components of the aircraft "in reserve" with MRO facilities in place. Or Pakistan Air Force goes for new F-16s (Block-V, Block-70 or whatever the heck they're called these days) but the same condition of acquiring large reserve of components to maintain 100% of the fleet for at least 1 year. Fleet size - 130/150 aircraft.

Pakistan Air Force ought to center it's focus around building it's fleet size with qualitative edge of 550 aircraft. With Pakistan Air Force's serviceability record, which is one of the best in the world today. The 550 mark, gives Pakistan Air Force a comprehensive and decisive advantage against the enemy.

But the objectives of Pakistan Air Force do not end there. Nope!! The parallel effort should be focused on Pakistan Air Force driving toward Unmanned Air Systems, capable of swarm attacks, electronic jamming, rcs mimmicking and masking abilities. Pakistan Air Force should lead the charge with China in developing AI-UACS (Artificial Intelligence Unmanned Air Combat Systems) capable of achieving air-interdiction missions in SAM Saturated Sites. More than that, these AI-UACS should have the capability to merge with AEWs, expanding the field-view of the AEW systems, phenomenally. Lastly, Pakistan Air Force should work with China and Russia to develop AI-UACS which can be operated by air superiority fighter squadrons for air battle tactics. Fleet size - undefined!

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

FA50 is US sanctions prone unfortunately

yes and so are the F-16 not to mention EFT is also sanction prone.

The Italian offer is ~€600m for 1squadron plus the upgrade and infrastructure etc.

This price would be aprox 37.5 million euro per pop. The issue is would these upgrades bring the EFT equal to F-16 block 15 in regards to ground attack roles?

 

[JamD]

Hi,

If the right engine was available

Hazaron khuahishon aisi kay har khwahish pe dum niklay

Translation because of forum rules:
Thousands of wishes such that each wish takes your life.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The Typhoon T1 is a glorified F-16 Block-52+. The most feasible way to approach those is to work out a leasing agreement with Leonardo where the PAF pays $100 m a year flat for everything -- i.e., every plane, maintenance issue, weapon, sortie, fuel, etc -- right until we don't need the T1s anymore. By the end of the leasing deal, those T1s will be so worn out, Leonardo might just leave them with Pakistan.

 

[Armchair]

The Typhoon T1 is a glorified F-16 Block-52+. The most feasible way to approach those is to work out a leasing agreement with Leonardo where the PAF pays $100 m a year flat for everything -- i.e., every plane, maintenance issue, weapon, sortie, fuel, etc -- right until we don't need the T1s anymore. By the end of the leasing deal, those T1s will be so worn out, Leonardo might just leave them with Pakistan.

Here are some alternative things we could do with 100 million.

1. Build a local bare basic LRSAM that will add an additional dimension for enemy fighters to deal with, while simultaneously taking on our fighter pilots and EW. This can be done using the basic technology of Nasr and mating it with an active seeker.
With 100 million a year, you cold have a gigantic number of LRSAMs.
2. Build UCAVs for strike and as BVR carrying companions for JFTs
3. Double the production rate of JFT
4. Decrease the time for Project Azm by half
5. Raise 20 new conscript divisions to completely neutralize India's numbers advantage.
6. Lease J-10 Cs instead.

Actually, at 100 million a year, you could attempt to do a reasonable job in 4 of the above 6 points.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Here are some alternative things we could do with 100 million.

1. Build a local bare basic LRSAM that will add an additional dimension for enemy fighters to deal with, while simultaneously taking on our fighter pilots and EW. This can be done using the basic technology of Nasr and mating it with an active seeker.
With 100 million a year, you cold have a gigantic number of LRSAMs.
2. Build UCAVs for strike and as BVR carrying companions for JFTs
3. Double the production rate of JFT
4. Decrease the time for Project Azm by half
5. Raise 20 new conscript divisions to completely neutralize India's numbers advantage.
6. Lease J-10 Cs instead.

Actually, at 100 million a year, you could attempt to do a reasonable job in 4 of the above 6 points.

If spread over 10 years, I'd...

1. Buy the Denel Dynamics Marlin BVRAAM / MR-SAM Project
2. Develop an AUAV (for deep-strike and buddying Project Azm & JF-17)
3. Develop an Iskander-like SRBM (maybe use Ukraine's Hrim-2 project as a starting point)
4. Develop a lightweight supersonic AShM for use from aircraft, land, ships & submarines
5. Develop lighter, longer-range variants of the Ra'ad ALCM
6. Get Denel Dynamics to give us an equivalent to Umbani and Sajeel PGB/LGBs
7. Buy-off Denel's Raptor 3 for an H-6.
8. Buy-off the A-Darter
9. Get Hensoldt to develop a custom HMD/S

 

[Armchair]

I think someday we may find that you can't buy off technology. That's a place were a lot of Muslim states have wasted money but never, historically helped them. As soon that bought technology became outdated. And while we focused on the nihilistic view of buying weapons systems, people who understood the underlying technologies were able to do much more.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

someday

its nothing but wishful thinking. time to take rest my friend.

 

[denel]

If spread over 10 years, I'd...

1. Buy the Denel Dynamics Marlin BVRAAM / MR-SAM Project
2. Develop an AUAV (for deep-strike and buddying Project Azm & JF-17)
3. Develop an Iskander-like SRBM (maybe use Ukraine's Hrim-2 project as a starting point)
4. Develop a lightweight supersonic AShM for use from aircraft, land, ships & submarines
5. Develop lighter, longer-range variants of the Ra'ad ALCM
6. Get Denel Dynamics to give us an equivalent to Umbani and Sajeel PGB/LGBs
7. Buy-off Denel's Raptor 3 for an H-6.
8. Buy-off the A-Darter
9. Get Hensoldt to develop a custom HMD/S

I am telling you; South Africa is the premium destination for every bit of hardware that Pak needs; even additional specs will be accommodated. We need Pak to join in joint ventures and a lot of syngeries will come through. Even though RSA4 SLV is off shelf; it can be resurrected for LEOs launches. This is just on the air front. On land, IFV/mine proof vehicles remains our core strengths that is copied/transformed right across the globe under various brands, artillery etc.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I am telling you; South Africa is the premium destination for every bit of hardware that Pak needs; even additional specs will be accommodated. We need Pak to join in joint ventures and a lot of syngeries will come through. Even though RSA4 SLV is off shelf; it can be resurrected for LEOs launches. This is just on the air front. On land, IFV/mine proof vehicles remains our core strengths that is copied/transformed right across the globe under various brands, artillery etc.

Though off-the-shelf project buys are a start, the ideal is collaboration, right down to core inputs such as miniature air-breathing engines (esp. ramjet, scramjet, etc with CSIR, SomChem), satellite tech, IFVs, LAVs, etc. If the geo-strategic stance is a sign, there's a lull across our entire leadership towards taking sharp step forwards. Be it with South Africa or Ukraine for that matter, lots of missed opportunities. The lack of money is a constraint, but then again, we're not talking about EU/USA here, much closer currency parity and comparable economic realities.

 

[TsAr]

I am telling you; South Africa is the premium destination for every bit of hardware that Pak needs; even additional specs will be accommodated. We need Pak to join in joint ventures and a lot of syngeries will come through. Even though RSA4 SLV is off shelf; it can be resurrected for LEOs launches. This is just on the air front. On land, IFV/mine proof vehicles remains our core strengths that is copied/transformed right across the globe under various brands, artillery etc.

@denel a question was you, Pakistan and South African military chiefs have visited the countries and defense delegations have held several meeting. What is the stumbling block that is stopping both countries from joint ventures?

 

[denel]

Though off-the-shelf project buys are a start, the ideal is collaboration, right down to core inputs such as miniature air-breathing engines (esp. ramjet, scramjet, etc with CSIR, SomChem), satellite tech, IFVs, LAVs, etc. If the geo-strategic stance is a sign, there's a lull across our entire leadership towards taking sharp step forwards. Be it with South Africa or Ukraine for that matter, lots of missed opportunities. The lack of money is a constraint, but then again, we're not talking about EU/USA here, much closer currency parity and comparable economic realities.

Absolutely, we are desperately looking for markets right now as long as there is money, it can be done. With the exception of land weapons where we have a good market share, there is already breakthru on AAMs front; things had slowed under prior Brazilian govt; with the president things are beginning to move to get AAMs jvs to final stages.

@denel a question was you, Pakistan and South African military chiefs have visited the countries and defense delegations have held several meeting. What is the stumbling block that is stopping both countries from joint ventures?

There was no stumbling block on our side; the issue was on Pak side. Remember - we have a difference - our military chiefs have ZERO power on deals. Pak team signs documents and promises but never shows up; then what has been passed along is they have vested interests with Chinese/US/European sellers who give massive kickbacks and hence nothing transpires. Regretfully until that mentality changes, there will be nothing of major significant going over to Pak @MastanKhan

 

[Inception-06]

Absolutely, we are desperately looking for markets right now as long as there is money, it can be done. With the exception of land weapons where we have a good market share, there is already breakthru on AAMs front; things had slowed under prior Brazilian govt; with the president things are beginning to move to get AAMs jvs to final stages.


There was no stumbling block on our side; the issue was on Pak side. Remember - we have a difference - our military chiefs have ZERO power on deals. Pak team signs documents and promises but never shows up; then what has been passed along is they have vested interests with Chinese/US/European sellers who give massive kickbacks and hence nothing transpires. Regretfully until that mentality changes, there will be nothing of major significant going over to Pak @MastanKhan

as other members wrote already what's stopping Pakistan from joint ventures and deeper military cooperation with South Africa?