Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[fatman17]

and higher operational capacity at any given time...
yet PAF should get more fighters..
if we learn anything form feb, its that airforce will be the key for any future conflict, the make or break thing

There is a limit to how many combat squadrons the airforce can realistically have. 20 to 22 squadrons is their limit. What they need is more new generation fighters.

 

[fatman17]

I believe we need Atleast 500 to 600 jets half the size of IAF Atleast.

Not possible

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

getting 400 will be a miracle ! by 2025 PAF will have 180 jf-17 And ??f16s~76= 250 that really counts, which is about 100 short from what PAF needs to be(350+50 odd mirage5)..

i think PAF needs to work hard on getting an approval for used f16s...
seems the only possible choice ..i was expecting alot more after jordan deal but guess didnt worked out..
one possibility does exist if italy ends up giving a good deal on typhoons ..Italy is trying to pitch on older ones in europe at the same price as used f16s but associated cost , approval from member states and upgrades are too expensive

other option is more j10s on loans but i would rather wait and see if we can get a 5th gen fighter from china rather than j10..

The question that comes in my mind is for how long would PAF like to fly these 50-100 off the self fighters?
IF PAF really is planning on getting quantities in access of 70 then they would require reserves as well as maintenance facilities which indeed would also add to the expenses. Even if the Italian offer PAF EFT at USD 10 mil. a pop other factors would increase the costs to around 35-40 mil.

The only western solution that can be feasible for PAF is to procure either more F-16's or to persuade Trump to provide 50 F-15E's to have some sort of air superiority.

For the price of USD 35-40mil PAF can have more JF-17's ordered directly from China.JF-17 Block II and B are in the same price tag. 50 JF-17 B can be used not as trainers but dedicated deep strike platforms. in addition 50-Block III can also be directly purchased providing aerial deniability against any Indian future wars. This would benefit PAF in the loger run.

PAF could also procure FA-50 from South Korea which is also prices at USD35mil. This would seriously improve PAF's LIFT role and add up as light combat platform. This could potentially open up doors towards KFX program along with TFX and AZM going hand in hand. Chinese J-20 or J-31, US F-35 or any European fifth gen aircraft can be produced later on if need be.

 

[fatman17]

Well to fight india we need Atleast 1-2 ratio I mean long war short war is different story but we should go J10 and effort for used F16s as many as we can.

PAF should really revisit the J10C situation and try to get excess EFTs from Italy.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

What they need is more new generation fighters.

PAF could also procure FA-50 from South Korea which is also prices at USD35mil. This would seriously improve PAF's LIFT role and add up as light combat platform. This could potentially open up doors towards KFX program along with TFX and AZM going hand in hand. Chinese J-20 or J-31, US F-35 or any European fifth gen aircraft can be produced later on if need be.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Yes the original number was 57, so 4 attritions

@aliyusuf @fatman17
PAF initially ordered 40 that were delivered in two batches of 20 each. They arrived on Dec 17th and 20th 2001 in Karachi via Chinese ships. A third batch of 8 was ordered and delivered in early 2003 along with 6 FT-7PG under Hand-Shake IV. That enabled PAF to equip No.17 Tigers, No.23 Talons and No.20 Cheetahs squadrons. There was an initial requirement for up to 80 aircraft but there were no subsequent orders. There were some two seats ordered later on as attrition replacements in the later years as well.

As far as attrition goes, it is not easy to know if the crashes are of F-7P or F-7PG sometimes but as many as 10 F-7PGs and 4 FT-7PGs have crashed

PAF could also procure FA-50 from South Korea which is also prices at USD35mil. This would seriously improve PAF's LIFT role and add up as light combat platform. This could potentially open up doors towards KFX program along with TFX and AZM going hand in hand. Chinese J-20 or J-31, US F-35 or any European fifth gen aircraft can be produced later on if need be.

A LIFT jet should not cost more than our frontline fighter, in this case JF-17.

 

[fatman17]

JF-17B Fierce Dragon/Thunder


This tandem-seat trainer version wasdeveloped at the request of Pakistani AF, which also pre-ordered the first prototype. JF-17B is believed to have been based on the JF-17 Block II configuration with a IFR probe and an LED probe light installed on the starboard side of the forward fuselage. The aircraft features an enlarged and raised spine which creates additional space for flight instruments and fuel in order to compensate the space occupied by the rear cockpit. The aircraft also features a more swept vertical tail in order to reduce drag and to maintain the center of gravity. A new color LED landing light was installed above the front landing gear. A more powerful cockpit environmental control system has been installed as well to accommodate two pilots. More composite materials have been used in order to reduce the weight and to strengthen the structure. JF-17B is reportedly controlled by a new 3-axis digital FBW system replacing the old analog system. The aircraft is equipped with the same KLJ-7 PD fire-control radar and retain the same BVR as well as precision air-to-ground strike capabilities as JF-17 Block II. As the result JF-17B represents a very attractive option to foreign customers with limited budget and resources. Its length is 14.5m, height is 4.6m, TO weight is 9.4t, max external load is 4.6t. A model of the aircraft was first unveiled at the 2013 Paris Airshow by CATIC. The development started officially in 2014. The 01 prototype of JF-17B was constructed in December 2016 and conducted its firsttaxiing test on April 21, 2017. The JF-17BBC0001 prototype conducted its maiden flight on April 27, 2017. The JF-17B 02 prototype flew for the first time on December 7, 2017. Currently the 01 prototype (17-601) is conducting test flights at PAC with the pitot tube removed from the nose. The 03 prototype conducted its maiden flight on August 3rd, 2018. 26 were reportedly ordered by PAF, with the initial delivery in 2019. A recent rumor (November 2018) suggested that an EW variant (JF-17E?) has been proposed. The latest image (March 2019) indicated that first customer of JF-17B(M) (S/N 1707) turned out to be the Myanmar Air Force, which has been delivered to MAF.
- Last Updated 8/26/19

 

[fatman17]

@aliyusuf @fatman17
PAF initially ordered 40 that were delivered in two batches of 20 each. They arrived on Dec 17th and 20th 2001 in Karachi via Chinese ships. A third batch of 8 was ordered and delivered in early 2003 along with 6 FT-7PG under Hand-Shake IV. That enabled PAF to equip No.17 Tigers, No.23 Talons and No.20 Cheetahs squadrons. There was an initial requirement for up to 80 aircraft but there were no subsequent orders. There were some two seats ordered later on as attrition replacements in the later years as well.

As far as attrition goes, it is not easy to know if the crashes are of F-7P or F-7PG sometimes but as many as 10 F-7PGs and 4 FT-7PGs have crashed


A LIFT jet should not cost more than our frontline fighter, in this case JF-17.

Pakistan ordered 57 F-7PGs and 9 FT-7PGs in early 2000. They have replaced J-6/Mig-19 tocounter India's Mig-21bis/Bison fleet. SomeF-7PGs were upgraded with VLOC antennas on top of the vertical tail fin as well as a newdorsal UHF/VHF antenna behind the cockpit.
As one can see different versions are floating around on the net.

 

[ziaulislam]

There is a limit to how many combat squadrons the airforce can realistically have. 20 to 22 squadrons is their limit. What they need is more new generation fighters.

that translates to 400 fighters which previous chief quoted saying we need but no. of 4th gen fighters wont go beyond 260(180+77 unless uncle sam let us buy older f16s)

PAF should really revisit the J10C situation and try to get excess EFTs from Italy.

italy as ~30ish trench 1 on sale and they have an offer of custom upgrade package ..question is how good is it and what will be the cost of acquisition and maintain those..(radar is made by italy for main fighter as well)..however, seems it has lost multiple times to f16 in tenders

other countries like Britain, Germany, Spain and Austria have several trench 1 that they want to get rid of..simply because they dont need them

if PAF manages to figure this out it can easily find 50+ good airframes at low cost..issue is cost of operation and upgrades as trench 1 is just an airsup aircraft

 

[fatman17]

that translates to 400 fighters which previous chief quoted saying we need but no. of 4th gen fighters wont go beyond 260(180+77 unless uncle sam let us buy older f16s)


italy as ~30ish trench 1 on sale and they have an offer of custom upgrade package ..question is how good is it and what will be the cost of acquisition and maintain those..(radar is made by italy for main fighter as well)..however, seems it has lost multiple times to f16 in tenders

other countries like Britain, Germany, Spain and Austria have several trench 1 that they want to get rid of..simply because they dont need them

if PAF manages to figure this out it can easily find 50+ good airframes at low cost..issue is cost of operation and upgrades as trench 1 is just an airsup aircraft

Pray for Afghanistan peace and see the F16s flying here along with super cobras etc. Pakistan play your cards right!

 

[GriffinsRule]

Pakistan ordered 57 F-7PGs and 9 FT-7PGs in early 2000. They have replaced J-6/Mig-19 tocounter India's Mig-21bis/Bison fleet. SomeF-7PGs were upgraded with VLOC antennas on top of the vertical tail fin as well as a newdorsal UHF/VHF antenna behind the cockpit.
As one can see different versions are floating around on the net.

Thanks, but I believe your figures are incorrect. Maybe if you have a picture of any F-7PG with a serial number after 02-848 that you could post, I would take your figure of 57 aircraft into account. But as of yet I have not seen any so I am sticking to what I have read and gathered for now.

 

[fatman17]

Thanks, but I believe your figures are incorrect. Maybe if you have a picture of any F-7PG with a serial number after 02-848 that you could post, I would take your figure of 57 aircraft into account. But as of yet I have not seen any so I am sticking to what I have read and gathered for now.

no worries. not that critical.

According to the South China Morning Post

, China has decided that the the Chengdu J-20 fighter will be developed further to operate from the country’s aircraft carriers. An anonymous military source says the Central Military Commission is favoring the J-20 over Shenyang FC-31. The J-20 was announced combat ready in July. It is listed in China’s latest national defense white paper as one of the new, high-tech weapons the Chinese military has commissioned.

Pakistan should take over the F31 program from china

Its first foreign customer is likely to be Pakistani AF, which has been planning its own 4th generation stealth fighter based on FC-31 since late 2017.

 

[fatman17]

PAF could also procure FA-50 from South Korea which is also prices at USD35mil. This would seriously improve PAF's LIFT role and add up as light combat platform. This could potentially open up doors towards KFX program along with TFX and AZM going hand in hand. Chinese J-20 or J-31, US F-35 or any European fifth gen aircraft can be produced later on if need be.

FA50 is US sanctions prone unfortunately

 

[fatman17]

that translates to 400 fighters which previous chief quoted saying we need but no. of 4th gen fighters wont go beyond 260(180+77 unless uncle sam let us buy older f16s)


italy as ~30ish trench 1 on sale and they have an offer of custom upgrade package ..question is how good is it and what will be the cost of acquisition and maintain those..(radar is made by italy for main fighter as well)..however, seems it has lost multiple times to f16 in tenders

other countries like Britain, Germany, Spain and Austria have several trench 1 that they want to get rid of..simply because they dont need them

if PAF manages to figure this out it can easily find 50+ good airframes at low cost..issue is cost of operation and upgrades as trench 1 is just an airsup aircraft

The Italian offer is ~€600m for 1squadron plus the upgrade and infrastructure etc.

 

[ziaulislam]

The Italian offer is ~€600m for 1squadron plus the upgrade and infrastructure etc.

too expensive ..with upgrades it might cost the same as f16s..with f16s have 12000 hours airframe...
unless they come upwith sweat deal i doubt PAF will entertain it

i think PAF will only seriously consider it if it gets under 30M/aircraft with substantial upgrades to tranch1..if it does it wll probbaly look for 2-3/36-48 squardons ~3 billion dollars....

though seems even that would be tough for pakistan to cough up..we are in crisis never this big