Pakistan-A real market for the Mirage 2000-9 ?

[Sinnerman108]

^^ haven't this issue discussed already ?

I know i was there, and so was mk.

why has thread not deleted as yet

 

[Mani2020]

In weapons purchase, there is never a fair game----and the best system is not always need to be purchased all the time----. Sometimes the second best can do as good a job as the first best because they are so closely matched----.

Yes, everybody makes mistakes----but when it comes to PAF---they have set a new standards for folly for whicha yardstick has not been developed yet.

MK till today i haven't understood your stance . No offense but with all that difficult phrases you can make your posts interesting but i am still unable to pick a single stance, i know you are the one who will never ever leave your persistence

Ok i agree with you that PAF committed a blunder, now here are the main points of your past posts and form the new ones too

1) According to you F-16 is a good platform and PAF should have/had acquire it as its tested and US had so much trust on Pakistan that they provided them with Aim-120 which they didn't to egypt (you said in one of your posts)

2) M-2000 was a good platform so PAF lost an opportunity with that, as they got a chance in 80's and 90's (again from one of your post)

3) Swedish make the best technical equipment , PAF should have gone for Gripen (from your post)

Now look at 3 points from your posts, man you are obsessed with every offer , you want PAF to do all these three things and if PAF hadn't done any of the following you are going to bash them to death and not only that you will generalize the whole Pakistan nation and say "they had their head deep down in sh!t (your wording)"

Now be realistic , in 80's we would have gone with either one of the two i.e m-2000 or f-16 and PAF went for F-16's (which according to you are good ones and sophisticated and all that yadda yadda) atleast 100 of them (most were embargoes , thats another story) now if PAF would have gone for M-2000 you would have bashed by saying we lost an opportunity of f-16's . Now its evident from your posts that you like both options , so b/w your two wishes one had to come true while the other left begging and in both cases the fate was same i.e bashing by your side


Then after embargo we got a chance to put our hands on M-2000 but we didn't , and for me that was the only missed opportunity that would have been grabbed

Now come to Gripen , around early 2000 Gripen was offered to us but again at the same time f-16 were offered along with bvrs and PAF could have only opted one of both , so they went for f-16s as by that PAF got a chance to not only get their hands on latest bvr missiles which PAF was lacking and there was a dire need of that but also the MLUs for old ones. Plus the infra-structure and the flying experience we had with them . Now again in this situation both are/were your favourites and again was a thing of choice b/w two wishes , if PAF would have gone for Gripen same MK would have been bashing PAF by saying PAF would have gone for f-16's as they have infra-structure yada yada also you as always would have been there to back up american technology as you always do

MK you have to understand that PAF budget is very minute so unlike US or KSA we are not having our pockets full with $$$$ to avail all the options, even they wouldnot have done so .

MK for heaven sake come out of this mind set, its been 3 years i am on this forum and i have seen your most of the posts all filled with same stuff over and over again and that typical bashing.

Bashing is not the solution for everything neither is generalizing the whole public and using slang for them , if you have so much to blame the general public to not doing anything against corruption and you are so desperate about that why not "You" come in Pakistan and do something about it ,as far as i know you are having Pakistan flag in your location part nahhh. Sitting in US or wondering around in your Mercedez benz will not do anything .Come here and feel the music like we are doing here.


I have seen many people who can do all this bashing stuff and are good at it rather best at it but when they are asked to do something constructive they have nothing to contribute,

Your 40 years life experience goes on vacation if you are not able to do anything constructive. A person is not represented by its age but by the work he does

 

[Luftwaffe]

Don't mind which country goes back and fourth 3 timers for Mirages 2000 and ditches it, what is the purpose of evaluating and going into negotiations for something that you aren't buying, were/are French fools to give you a 4th go for it, I see french refusal for J-17 avionics and weapons is the revenge of 90s. So if PAF was evaluation Mirage 2000s then there was cash readily available. So please brother quit saying PAF was out of Cash these are old stories fed by then PAF high ranking brass, did you know PAF even evaluated Tornadoes why just for fun? and then you settle for F-7s based on mig-21 in the end and mock Pakistani people, pilots hoping for the next generation, who paid and spent their tax money.

 

[MastanKhan]

Mani,

I thank you for the time that you have put into your post-----from what i read----you are putting it all on a level playing field-----which it is not----it was a stair step progression----an oppurtunity on it its own merit in its own time frame-----during different decades---some overlapping in the begining of the last decade.

You young people have never been told by your parents, elders and your teachers that you don't fight todays wars with what you are buying today and will get tomorrow. You prepare for war 5--10--15 years ahead of time----you people have sort of an impression that all will be well and good when we get the 50 blk 2 jf 17's----or the 50 FC20's-----. What you people don't want to listen to and understand is that it would take at least 5 plus years of integration to get some sense about what you can do with the aircraft----there is no handbook and operational manual written for these aircraft----there are no defined parameters for the limitations and capabilities of these birds-----.

Every item on these aircrafts is brand new----in a race against time----the equipment has been put together at a fast pace. It is not even tested on u s millitary standards when it comes to time-----.

You have to ask this question----why does paf need these aircraft----who are they going to use it against-----paf is not flying these aircraft against themselves or in vacuum----they need some kind of parity against the iaf----.

People make money an issue----it is and it is not----where did the funds come from after the OBL killing----we have gone on a buying spree like never before.

A STITCH IN TIME SAVES NINE-------somebody needs to tell the paf about that analogy.

The last part of your post is senseless---which means that you have yet to understand the gist of the discussion at level one-----. If you can't even cross over the threshold----I cannot carry you over----I am sorry----.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

2 squadrons of J10B would do wonders for moral of Airforce loaded with SD10 missiles

Mirage 2000 not so much the name 2000 makes the plane look old


We really need J10B 2 more squadrons or May be J11 4 squadrons

 

[MastanKhan]

2 squadrons of J10B would do wonders for moral of Airforce loaded with SD10 missiles

Mirage 2000 not so much the name 2000 makes the plane look old


We really need J10B 2 more squadrons or May be J11 4 squadrons

Yes they will----but at least after 5 years of regular and continuous flight training and integration-----.

 

[lem34]

I see this thread was put up by an Indian Spark suggesting that pakistan could be a market. I would have thought Indian flying coffins could have been replaced with these and maybe there is a market for them in Incredible india

 

[Storm Force]

Mirage2000-9 @ unit cost of $20m each. BITE THEIR HANDS OFF



These miragess come with proven mica BVR and rc400 radar (the very same package that PAF was denied for THUNDERS only 6 months)

The mirage2000-9 is on a par with with F16/52 and currently superior to the infant new born THUNDER.

60 MIRAGE2000-9 IN PAF would cause more havoc in IAF then both thunders and MLU F16s

 

[Storm Force]

aryan.

The indians would do well to buy these mirages and double their mirage 2000 fleet overnite.

Financially to india 60 x 25m each = $1.5 billion is nothing
they are blowing $3 billion on upgrading and stockpiling weapons for just 51 mirage 2000H

 

[Luftwaffe]

Do you people have any information of Aircraft Integration, it is an engineering a heck of hard work that take time to training learning, practice and finally to take over and do the same and continuous process over the life time of the aircraft.

You people think J-17 will be jam packed with weapons and avionics, fueled an that's it, A big NO.

Read this.
http://ftp.rta.nato.int/public//PubFullText/RTO/EN/RTO-EN-018///EN-018-07.pdf

If it was for me I would have paid French and U.A.E to buy all or 2 squadrons of these Mirages.
You people don't even know what production line end means, it means no more airframe development, it does not mean aircraft spare parts won't be manufactured and supported do you know French are still operating a large number of Mirages to be exact 249 Mirage 2000 variants.

The same factory manufacturing plant the is manufacturing developing French Rafales had once manufactured Mirage F-1/III/V/2000s.

 

[lem34]

aryan.

The indians would do well to buy these mirages and double their mirage 2000 fleet overnite.

Financially to india 60 x 25m each = $1.5 billion is nothing
they are blowing $3 billion on upgrading and stockpiling weapons for just 51 mirage 2000H

Exactly my point. I mean we hear even indians joke about their mig21 and indian procurement takes so long this would be an excellant filler until they get a new ones.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Financially to india 60 x 25m each = $1.5 billion is nothing

at only 25 mill a piece is bargain, i hope you meant that you'd be getting those Mirages without Weapons and Avionics package, add that cost on and deal doesn't seem so sweet.

 

[Storm Force]

Jungibaaz.

$25m is the price being quoted on this forum as the price that UAE will sell to a friendly state IE PAKISTAN.

i DONT think india is in this race.

REASON BEING INDIA will offically order the MMRCA in next few weeks.

BUT for PAF this would be a GREAT DEAL

Pakistan has massive experience with mirages THEY STIL OPERATE 175 MIRAGE3/5 ROSE albeit a whole generation olders in technology but the mirage influence and experience will make transition easy. for PAF engineers

 

[Storm Force]

For once i have to agree with LUFTWAFFE it takes 5 to 10 years to fully intergrate a new weapons system so is performs at 100% efficiency and at its absolute peak.

THUNDERS are so new if war broke out today ITS THE F16s and the much older mirages that would do the most dangerous missions.

Even today nearly a decade after the first su30 ARRIVED IN iaf THE INDIANS stil only have 150 operational flankers and are stil looking for upgrades to remove vital weaknesses that have been realised in training both at home and abroad.

Thunder and lca will be the same THEY WILL TAKE time to fully evolve.

PS.

I think the fc20 may be far smoother in entering service and being ready for really vital missions reason beiong its been a FRONTLINE war plane for PLAAF since 2005 ALREADY.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

It makes no sense for Pakistan to buy out dated planes when we can get planes that can target 10 planes in air with BVR missiles

Then we will have to try to get parts and radar equipment etc and we have to chase france I mean so much time waste

We can be a happy airforce with 2 more squadrons of J10B or 4 squadrons of J11 , that will add to our airforce , getting mirages will not really add much of improvement

The problems for us will be

a) No supply of parts
b) No reliable supplier
c) No reliable engines
d) No reliable upgrades

Its a dead coffin , its almost like throwing away your money in a Indian dowry

But with J10B or J11 at least we can get parts and also have our engineers work on fixes with cooperation from Chinese and other engineers and may be enhance the planes as we wish