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Ok ... but as I already noted, this is wrong! The J-10 was never seen carrying PL-12/15s on the centerline station and plain impossible to do this on twin-launchers. There is simply not enough space ... this diagram is nice, but not more than a fan's wishful thinking!

View attachment 821434
Having more missiles started off from the Russians who liked to fire off in pairs for ensuring some hit or combo of IR+Radar like the R-23R’s and Ts. Technically even the legacy hornet could carry 12 (10 AMRAAMs) but somehow the idea that they also have mass and weight that impacts aircraft performance is forgotten by most.

Finally, since BVR combat is still closing into a merge eventually I would hate to be the guy at the lesser spectrum of payload performance than someone at a higher T/W based on their payload.
 
Tail Choppers moved to Rafiqui more than a year ago
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Ok ... but as I already noted, this is wrong! The J-10 was never seen carrying PL-12/15s on the centerline station and plain impossible to do this on twin-launchers. There is simply not enough space ... this diagram is nice, but not more than a fan's wishful thinking!

View attachment 821434

This is correct! However we have never seen 10x 250 kg guided bombs so far.

View attachment 821435
Having more missiles started off from the Russians who liked to fire off in pairs for ensuring some hit or combo of IR+Radar like the R-23R’s and Ts. Technically even the legacy hornet could carry 12 (10 AMRAAMs) but somehow the idea that they also have mass and weight that impacts aircraft performance is forgotten by most.

Finally, since BVR combat is still closing into a merge eventually I would hate to be the guy at the lesser spectrum of payload performance than someone at a higher T/W based on their payload.
Thank you very much for your precious opinion
I was merely saying that in a condition like 27 feb when groups of 20 planes were approaching us from different sectors then a plane capable of carrying somewhere between 12 to 14 bvr is very useful Cz we don't have scramble to 4 aircraft for that exact amount of bvrs in the air that only one that kind of aircraft can carry And in a BVR engagement T:W don't matter Cz it is the missile Fox 3 which have to do all the maneuvers.
PAF also need that kind of plane
J-35/FC-31 maybe is the plane we should be looking for in the future
Hope you agree with me
 
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Why Pakistanis cannot spell Rafale is beyond me…. Its R A F A L E.. not Rafael like the Israeli defense company or Raphael like the Italian artist or Raffall which is the name of a lottery firm.

The J-10CP is likely going to be closely guarded but based on the ridiculous theories of it being compromised for F-16Vs it seems we are gathering a tik tok level crowd of wanting to just gaslight things for fun rather than actually realizing what they are talking about.

No more F-16s! Its done! That boat is pretty much departing and your new camp is set and its not western equipment. Moreover, despite the self centered approach of Pakistanis thinking they are the most important, most capable and most intelligent nation in the world it is far from it. For starters you have India next door which is multiples more important regardless of how well it tries to look for its interests than Pakistan’s CPEC gloating ever will be to the west in trying to contain China.

You just basically gave the middle finger to every NATO nation on Russia and Ukraine regardless of your pleading of “neutrality” to which they are now pushing for a regime change to ensure you remain screwed. And if that goes through then yes the J-10CP may be pushed to be compromised from a government level in Pakistan and no PDF or Chinese netizen warrior would be able to do jack about it because it is easier to buy a Pakistani than to find a Fuzon bubble gum in any store.

Lastly, even if you don’t compromise anything which is very likely - the United States spends more on ELINT & SIGINT than all other nations combined so at the least its been monitoring Chinese aircraft on patrol in Taiwan and storing all those juicy radar emissions for analysis later.
Looks like a PDF advisor gone rogue by saluting a Flag of red stripes and many stars. I would partially agree with you but every nation and person, regardless of their current situation or status deserves some self respect. Yes there may be some Pakistanis cheaper than your bubble gum but there could be a western caucasian man even cheaper than that. Plz don't try to start nation bashing $h!t show, it won't go down well for either sides.

And yes we had faced some issues in Govts in past and present too. But the policy of the state is designed by the loyal institutes of the state. We have seen many planted Govts but they couldn't achieve strategic policy level penetration. Yes they might speak loud that we are in charge and we are in control of everything but still the Military and the deep state not only managed to preserve their power and sovereignty but also held the helm of strategic policy making and further implementation. Obviously there had been some hiccups along the way.

Govts/regimes might come and go but the state remains there. Don't care about who is in the Parliament or in the Presidential Palace. They are irrelevant to state's strategic policies. As with any other state, our state level policies are controlled by establishment and deep state which thank God has maintained it's posture well as a strong state within a state, so weathered through Cold wars, Global superpowers continuously visiting our backyard and still we are standing firm and strong and not ended up like Syria. It's not PM IK's policy, who is he to make that much huge of a policy shift all by himself. He is just a face and mouthpiece of our state. And IK is indeed hell of a strong face of our state. The policy shift to look towards the East, maintain neutrality or show the middle finger to the bullies is all created and controlled by the state machinery.

Their Sigint or elint are irrelevant whatsoever. And yes one may find a mole in Pakistan so would be found in yours states too, there are no exceptions for that.
 
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Looks like a PDF advisor gone rogue by saluting a Flag of red stripes and many stars. I would partially agree with you but every nation and person, regardless of their current situation or status deserves some self respect. Yes there may be some Pakistanis cheaper than your bubble gum but there could be a western caucasian man even cheaper than that. Plz don't try to start nation bashing $h!t show, it won't go down well for either sides.

And yes we had faced some issues in Govts in past and present too. But the policy of the state is designed by the loyal institutes of the state. We have seen many planted Govts but they couldn't achieve strategic policy level penetration. Yes they might speak loud that we are in charge and we are in control of everything but still the Military and the deep state not only managed to preserve their power and sovereignty but also held the helm of strategic policy making and further implementation. Obviously there had been some hiccups along the way.

Govts/regimes might come and go but the state remains there. Don't care about who is in the Parliament or in the Presidential Palace. They are irrelevant to state's strategic policies. As with any other state, our state level policies are controlled by establishment and deep state which thank God has maintained it's posture well as a strong state within a state, so weathered through Cold wars, Global superpowers continuously visiting our backyard and still we are standing firm and strong and not ended up like Syria. It's not PM IK's policy, who is he to make that much huge of a policy shift all by himself. He is just a face and mouthpiece of our state. And IK is indeed hell of a strong face of our state. The policy shift to look towards the East, maintain neutrality or show the middle finger to the bullies is all created and controlled by the state machinery.

Their Sigint or elint are irrelevant whatsoever. And yes one may find a mole in Pakistan so would be found in yours states too, there are no exceptions for that.
Bro, you've barely posted anything since 2015, why are you suddenly doing it now? And picking fights at that too.
 
Bro, you've barely posted anything since 2015, why are you suddenly doing it now? And picking fights at that too.
I have been a silent reader Pakistani defense forums even years before I registered in the 2015. 🙂

And I didn't mean to fight anyone. But if you would label defending my nation's dignity as picking fights with others, then so be it.

I am ready to face the punishment 😔
 
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F-15 EX which is currently on order can carry 22 AIM-120 AMRAAMS
What does it shows
Pardon me butt, 4 F-15 EX can carry more bvr missiles then a whole squadron of J-10 !
It requires 4 brv to kill 4 F15 and 18 brv to kill one sqr .. which have best chance to servive
 
There is a huge difference between flying J-10C against a couple of non-NATO or Turkish air forces vs what you were proposing. What level of access to you think America would demand in return for essentially giving upgraded F-16Vs to Pakistan for very little? In terms of radar signature, even ROCAF can provide the basic radar signature data to USAF since they see J-10C flying by on a weekly basis. USAF does not need to exercise with J-10C to get that information. NATO countries would want to know things like the strength weaknesses in its radar or EW suite. The actual capabilities of PL-10 and PL-15. All these are things that are entirely relevant to not J-10C but also J-20.

USA wont demand such information because it is inconceivable, it would only make it look stupid when PAF will simply call off such meet.
but for the sake of such ridiculous scenario, maybe if America offers similar access and information about F35 then Pakistan can ask China if it is willing to trade J10 information for similar F35 information,.?
 
USA wont demand such information because it is inconceivable, it would only make it look stupid when PAF will simply call off such meet.
but for the sake of such ridiculous scenario, maybe if America offers similar access and information about F35 then Pakistan can ask China if it is willing to trade J10 information for similar F35 information,.?

Do not underestimate what US would ask for. After all, UAE gave up on F-35 purchase due to overly onerous demand.

China is exporting J-10C to Pakistan with the full expectation that US would likely have more access to J-10C than vice versa with F-16. Keep in mind that PAF still cannot use F-16s in its DACTs with China. I think it would be pretty reasonable to also expect PAF to not use J-10s in its DACTs with US and its main allies. Turkey or other Arab countries is a different story.
 
There are no 10 bvrs. And I'm not sure about changing pylons for more BVR missiles part. Only stated by the guy who made this diagram. Right now all we see is 4X PL-15 and 2X PL10 max for J-10C.View attachment 821432
Thanks a lot for labeling the picture. Machine translation wasn't that much easy to understand what's it saying accurately. 👍😊
 
Thank you very much for your precious opinion
I was merely saying that in a condition like 27 feb when groups of 20 planes were approaching us from different sectors then a plane capable of carrying somewhere between 12 to 14 bvr is very useful Cz we don't have scramble to 4 aircraft for that exact amount of bvrs in the air that only one that kind of aircraft can carry And in a BVR engagement T:W don't matter Cz it is the missile Fox 3 which have to do all the maneuvers.
PAF also need that kind of plane
J-35/FC-31 maybe is the plane we should be looking for in the future
Hope you agree with me
So what if one of your 14 or 26 BvR carrying airplanes is shot down because they aren’t invincible?
You not only are down a plane but also the weapons themselves which cost about $250000-$500k each as well. Now the enemy is still 12 aircraft while your precious BVR force is still defensive from the enemy’s shots and outnumbered with no one shooting back.

Yes, having a low observable platform helps but they don’t carry 16 missiles either. What they do is reduce the enemy’s situational awareness and reaction time to knock out key players while other less capable fighters pick off the stragglers.
You don’t get a J-31 to carry 16 missiles, you use it to get so close to the enemy that when you do launch its 4 missiles you ensure they all kill,
 
F-15 EX which is currently on order can carry 22 AIM-120 AMRAAMS
What does it shows
Pardon me butt, 4 F-15 EX can carry more bvr missiles then a whole squadron of J-10 !
The SU-30 can reportedly carry a Dozen missiles of assorted types.... Guess what, it took just one AMRAAM to neutralize that advantage.
 

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