PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[RAMPAGE]

That is a really objectionable & uncalled for comment on your part.
I'm not a fan of @MastanKhan in general BUT it would seem that while lecturing others about being 'rude' and 'patronising', you chose to be the same. Sad.

Perhaps you are right. I hoped that it would be an eye-opener for the poster. I still hope that it is.

 

[Clutch]

Part 1

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Part 2

 

[Aesterix]

I hope China has exported the flight simulation system to Pakistan as well. Could get pilots with basic training very rapidly adjusted to flying the aircraft.

If not I have flight sim on my PC and DCS World. PAF is welcome to borrow.

 

[jaybird]

How many r coming

Confidential! You don't want Indians to know the exact numbers of J-10 coming without any work done.

 

[The Terminator]

Care to explain, why Russia and not much more likely China? Do you really think a Russian engine will find its way into a Turkish-Pakistani joint development when in parallel the Pakistani AF is using Chinese engines in its later fighter acquisition and Turkey as a NATO member in any way won't ever get a Russian engine?

Is there any possibility that Turkey-China cooperating each other in defense sector in near future? Pakistan has great relationship with both of them. So if Pakistan opts for Turkish 5th Gen JV project, would China be willing to supply it's Engines for that platform?? As there have been stress between Turkey and China regarding Oyigur(Turkish descendants) population.

Turkey is currently working closely with the Ukraine to develop engines for its vital assets like Altay MBT or perhaps engines of even next iteration of Atak helicopters and Fighter jets too!

 

[Ghessan]

Sometimes, things are said as per told basis and need not to be explained at all. It's her opinion and post so let's call it as it is. Like, whatever she said was supposedly to be told like that only... nothing more or nothing less. Given the level of secrecy and all, keep 8jind, you will have to wait either for years if not months to know it all. May be sh don't want to explain further or don't seem it fit. However, she has the liberty whether to reply or not. Nobody is complacent or bound to explain everything. We have the freedom to agree or disagree as well. Whatever comes the argument, we are not here to challenge, belittling anyone or keep insisting about something else which is not explained in details. Time for us to move forward.

i really thank you for this post, it was needed. otherwise things were getting to look ugly.

That is a really objectionable & uncalled for comment on your part.
I'm not a fan of @MastanKhan in general BUT it would seem that while lecturing others about being 'rude' and 'patronising', you chose to be the same. Sad.

not everything suits everyone, it need a personality.

 

[The Terminator]

Think Pakistan is trying to walk a tight rope here. And this point needs to be understood. It's not rich like China where it can force the EU and US to talk to it, or take it seriously. At the same time, it would not want to be treated as an international pariah state like Iran or North Korea, and get disconnected from international monetary and trade systems. In spite of Pak-China bonhomie, Pakistan's biggest export destinations continue to be in the West. That's where pretty much most of its money coming from, alongside remittances from Pakistanis in the ME.

You can see how complex the situation has become for Pakistan, when in spite of huge pressure to not visit Russia, PM IK still went there, pretty much in the middle of a war - but at the same time, COAS was visiting EU to reassure the bloc.

There've been repercussions of the visit nonetheless, with the National Bank getting hit with a terror financing fine and PTI Gov being declared by Bloomberg as a failure in tackling Covid at home. In the coming months, Khan Gov will be targeted by more of such disinfo campaigns. But yet, economically it makes little sense for Pakistan to cut off or to antagonize the West. Even China would not approve of the same, it does not want another basket case of a country at its hand to help survive. If anything an economically sound, militarily confident but massively friendly Pak works far more in China's favor - all the same.

Now, between all of this, there's a very small role that military to military contacts cultivated over generations play and I doubt Pakistan would lose it just like that. But military has a sizable force now that's originated in China. There's no way, that China does not enjoy a massive voice inside GHQ.

Why we have to be enemy of a power to be friends with other? Can't we have diplomatic and trade relationships like many other normal state? When military defines the foreign policy they look it through military lens, that's our arms supplier, that's our enemy, that's neutral and that's an ally and relationship with other states practically end there.

If you wanna know about the Pakistan's foreign relations, just follow the military uniform. Every friendly country would be the one who supplies us weapons, does military exercises with us or we have military trainers deployed in other countries. And practically our foreign relations end there. That's it. We are aliens to most of the African continent and South East Asia, couldn't access Central Asia, and the list goes on. I would suggest not to underestimate the potential of the African economies.

 

[The Terminator]

Actually India and China are not really threats to each other unless both sides want the other to be and act accordingly. We have himalayas between us. The only real close contact is Ladakh that is relatively more accessible than the real ranges of Himalayas because in Ladakh armor division and troops can actually still travel although extremely difficult.

Pakistan to China's geostrategic interest is simply in having more neutral to friendly nations we can work with. That is all. More overlapping interest and higher order friendship rather than the USA's "you must do this or else" kind of "friendship". That is all. This of course doesn't always go smoothly but the purpose is not to win this and gain a war buddy. When India and China went to war in 1962, Pakistan did nothing. When Pakistan and India were at war, China did nothing. No remaining side of the three will do much in real war when two are going at it. Pakistan being strong is good for China for another reason. So that the state and system that is friendly with China remains. That India does not take Pakistan hostage like the USA has taken Ukraine hostage. Minus of course the close ties that Ukraine and Russia traditionally have.

So no, Pakistan is not there for China to keep India down or to attack India for China. It is there as a means to reaching the Islamic world and to have geographic access too. It is there to have one more peoples and leadership who will hear our side of the story when every enemy will block their ears and shut their eyes from truth. A strong Pakistan means a Pakistan that is not going to fall to Indian influence and be lost as a friend to China. India one day may turn around and join the league of nations who are realistic, genuine despite western satanic propaganda, and while imperfect and have our heated disagreements, at least work towards our individual goods that do not come at the cost of others and then eventually work towards our common good. Enmity is a doomed philosophy. India right now is totally lost to Hindutva. Oh well. Time changes all things and the greatest evils that exist in the world hopefully will be removed. Almost all we hear and see (at least in English) are from deception. It has become even more clear with recent events.

Agreed to the most of the part. But India taking Pakistan hostage as US did to Ukraine! Not even in hell. That's the core purpose of carving out Pakistan on the world map to be independent of India and we have held on our own regardless of anyone's help.

China has sh!t load of enemies/adversaries and less friends especially in the neighborhood. US has lead a whole block to surround or even try to suffocate China if it doesn't act as per US wishes. So China needs more and more friends, friends with some influence are even better. An alternative safe route to the west if Indo-Pacific goes wild. China's plate was already full to deal with before Quad. Now it's essential for China to strengthen Pakistan militarily so it would keep India engaged and China would better concentrate on the south china sea or the Pacific rather than its own backyard.

In current situation China needs Pakistan more than the other way around. We can today easily get back into the western camp, get investments/loans and buy weapons from there to survive with obvious western style hiccups. But for China as our trusted neighbor and friend, Pakistan has taken the risk to defy the US/NATO allies by not going hostile to China. Today Pakistan can get similar Package if not more from the west to disrupt CPEC and blockade China. They are continuously trying to appease Pakistan to cut off the CPEC. But couldn't succeed till now

 

[untitled]

View attachment 819445How would you assess that? How realistic is it? It doesn't look that much good for PAF! In radar ranges. In short anyone here who can analyze this and debunk this Indian theory. They have given radar and missile ranges in this infographic.

Was posted before and got deleted

 

[Aesterix]

View attachment 819445How would you assess that? How realistic is it? It doesn't look that much good for PAF! In radar ranges. In short anyone here who can analyze this and debunk this Indian theory. They have given radar and missile ranges in this infographic.

PAF relies heavily on networking, not on individual radars.

 

[The Terminator]

PAF relies heavily on networking, not on individual radars.

That's what I already understand. No weapon works in isolation. EW, AWE&C, SAMs, Fighters all work in synergy as a unified system.

Only PAF knows better as they have access to almost all of those platforms except a few. They have hands on experience and simulated combats in military exercises. But still they wouldn't be sure enough how they would fare against each other in real combat under intense EW, Radar, SAM and AEW&C coverage for sure. But PAF would certainly have the closest guess of what's expected.

 

[Aesterix]

That's what I already understand. No weapon works in isolation. EW, AWE&C, SAMs, Fighters all work in synergy as a unified system.

Only PAF knows better as they have access to almost all of those platforms except a few. They have hands on experience and simulated combats in military exercises. But still they wouldn't be sure enough how they would fare against each other in real combat under intense EW, Radar, SAM and AEW&C coverage for sure. But PAF would certainly have the closest guess of what's expected.

The "Beast of the east" SU-30MKI was dispatched and others ran away with their tales between their legs.
There's a lot more to air combat than just radar range.
Higher radar range also means the enemy can pickup your radar signals and know your location and send an anti radiation missile your way.

 

[ziaulislam]

Euro fighter taking off without after burner , in super cruise, takes a much longer run on tarmac.
With flame thrower on , it takes a small run, and it's up and away.
So, I am not too sure about the usefulness of super cruise in non stealth fighter jets.
In stealth it makes sense, because the blowtorch gives too much IR signature.

Fuel effiency
& endurance mission time

That's what I already understand. No weapon works in isolation. EW, AWE&C, SAMs, Fighters all work in synergy as a unified system.

Only PAF knows better as they have access to almost all of those platforms except a few. They have hands on experience and simulated combats in military exercises. But still they wouldn't be sure enough how they would fare against each other in real combat under intense EW, Radar, SAM and AEW&C coverage for sure. But PAF would certainly have the closest guess of what's expected.

Cant PAF pitch f16s against j10 in real time testing to see whats better ?

The "Beast of the east" SU-30MKI was dispatched and others ran away with their tales between their legs.
There's a lot more to air combat than just radar range.
Higher radar range also means the enemy can pickup your radar signals and know your location and send an anti radiation missile your way.

Su30 was the raptor of the east..it was thought to eat even rafale and some said even the f35 and was very close to f22
But some how it has now retired after feb 27

 

[Riz]

Should I get ready for a dance party today. I mean it's Monday morning

Haram haraam haraam Aztagfrullah

 

[Tair-Lahoti]

Oh well! Minor correction to your comment at first: it is not correct that "she had to explain---like a university professor explaining it to school children", in fact she posted very short one-liner sentences that left more questions than gave answers. As such like a student at the university or a kid at school, those who listen carefully, think on their own and add questions in case they still have concerns are the true good pupils, not those who accept all the get and forget or ignore to think!

Anyway, you know pretty well, why your "right to post has been taken away" from the Block 3 thread and now you are continuing your offence here?!! Get mature man, go out and search for a hobby, a meaning in life since you seem so much frustrated that your rants against me or another member, who has an independent and critical thinking is almost only pitiful and lamentable. I feel sorry for anyone with so much hate and anger and so much lack of understanding since you actually did not even listen to what my point of concern was and therefore this question.

In fact I strongly disagree and contradict what @messiach said and regardless our different opinions, I have all the deepest respect for her since she took her valuable time - as it seems my call on her was unjustified in the form I noted her since as it seems, she simply has not much time to lurk around in forums, sorry for that! - to try to explain, and that's for what forums are!

@tphuang @siegecrossbow @Beast @lcloo and @IblinI may better explain to you why I disagree in case you don't even want to think about my concerns since I'm a "Kraut", but maybe you listen to them.

Bet an d take care ... life is too short and too beautiful to constantly be desperate and angry.




Sorry to contradict ... but that for what forums are, to ask in case of disagreement for an explanation!

Why questioning someone with logic is such a big offense?