PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[Trango Towers]

News just came from reliable resource, we will have others inputs soon,

We know PAF is happy with Russia n engine for JFTs, they suot our climate.

What reliable source? A posters word? A gug called khafee was worshipped here as the word and he promised you f16 v70 ....his word was gospel. Where is he?

This news is bs until there is evidence

 

[TheSolution]

So everything is on IF IF IF and rumours...
I remember someone saying f16 V70 were a guarantee and when I questioned it I was abused rotten here.

I think people make big claims and then go silent..this is sure sign its not true as there is no justification to the rumour. The chinese use their own engines why would we select a Russian engine? Doesn't make sense

Exactly lol, people are celebrating on very little information, that too which is unreliable and unverifiable as of now.

Jumping to conclusions over hearsay...

Regarding specs and performance though, how do the AL-31 and WS-10B compare?

 

[Trango Towers]

Exactly lol, people are celebrating on very little information, that too which is unreliable and unverifiable as of now.

Jumping to conclusions over hearsay...

Regarding specs and performance though, how do the AL-31 and WS-10B compare?

No point comparing...the Chinese use WS-10B

A woman come in makes a wild claim and disappears and numb nuts discuss it as fact for 75 pages

 

[Scorpiooo]

As per news break by @messiach that PAF J10 will have Al31 engine with ToT

This is a big news, means PAF trust on Chinese engine is not yet achieved..

Secondly if AL31 is coming with ToT them RD93 will be also part of package as well.

Third point then there is higher chances that AZM or NGFA 5th gen will have Russian engine possibly AL 41

PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

But that‘s for the WS-10C, the updated version used by the J-20A. In contrast to the C-model, the J-10C uses the less powerful standard WS-10B, which is supposed to deliver a thrust of 132kn. No worries bro it is hard to find anything. Yes bro always hard to find official sources in China...

defence.pk

 

[TheSolution]

News just came from reliable resource, we will have others inputs soon,

We know PAF is happy with Russia n engine for JFTs, they suot our climate.

Are you sure? Pretty sure there were complaints over black smoke trail and also it being underpowered IIRC.

 

[Trango Towers]

Are you sure? Pretty sure there were complaints over black smoke trail and also it being underpowered IIRC.

Bhai black smoke is not a big issue...I used to design combustion chamber are drae. It's a function of fuel and vortex generation to extend lean burn time. No big deal. Some is just unburnt fuel. It reduces efficency but its nit a deal breaker and now modern combat is BVR. So smoke isn't going to play a part unclese you in WWR combat

 

[TheSolution]

No point comparing...the Chinese use WS-10B

A woman come in makes a wild claim and disappears and numb nuts discuss it as fact for 75 pages

It makes sense for the Chinese, since it's domestic and they can boost self-reliance and sort any issues in house.

For us it could be better to use the Russian engine because we use Russian engines with the JF17 already. But we need to consider difference in performance/specs.

 

[Trango Towers]

It makes sense for the Chinese, since it's domestic and they can boost self-reliance and sort any issues in house.

For us it could be better to use the Russian engine because we use Russian engines with the JF17 already. But we need to consider difference in performance/specs.

So you will buy a Chinese plane with a Russian engine even though the Chinese engine works just fine and and yiu partner in this sale is the Chinese.

Rumour rumour rumours....unbelievable

 

[abdulbarijan]

So everything is on IF IF IF and rumours...
I remember someone saying f16 V70 were a guarantee and when I questioned it I was abused rotten here.

I think people make big claims and then go silent..this is sure sign its not true as there is no justification to the rumour. The chinese use their own engines why would we select a Russian engine? Doesn't make sense

You are correct, everything is and should be treated as "if if if and rumors" until you see the jets in PAF colors in PAF bases.

Back in the day PAF seriously wanted the french avionics for the JFT block 2 upgrade, and was confirmed by official channels as well. That didn't go through. We have a well documented hard-on for the F-16's and officially we wanted numbers in the 100's and that didn't go through. The J-10's were being talked about until the 2010's and no official confirmation until recently, and in my personal opinion you still need to see them in our colors before celebrating.

This is just the nature of this whole industry, you have business and politics all intertwined and the situation is extremely dynamic. Some members hear things that are being talked of in that moment and time and then things change. That is just how it is. Nothing we can do about it, unfortunately.

 

[TheSolution]

So you will buy a Chinese plane with a Russian engine even though the Chinese engine works just fine and and yiu partner in this sale is the Chinese.

Rumour rumour rumours....unbelievable

With ToT I'd say it's probably very worth it, especially if there's no difference in performance cause it pushes our own knowledge base, could be used in Azm.

And yes, so far all rumours, we are speaking hypothetically right now. I'm shocked everyone read one message and just ran with it...

 

[Thorough Pro]

Not so much since Russia already cooperated in setting up RD93 rebuild factory in Pakistan, it make perfect sense to go with the Russian engine for J10 also, I can also foresee another Russian engine for Pakistan's indigenous 5th gen project adding and enhancing more to that rebuild factory to maybe start some kind of engine parts manufacturing and become expert in maintaining/rebuilding Russian engines, just like we did with Mirage rebuild the factory with future prospects of starting complete engine manufacturing with Russian technical assistance.

Hi,

Oh well---another surprise---.

 

[SQ8]

In addition to local assembly of AESA, J10 comes with AL-31 ToT. We are looking towards a greater russian input in our NGFA program.

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @JamD @SQ8 @Goenitz

Would be odd unless the idea is to add additional numbers down the line or use an uprated version of the AL-31( Post series 3).
However, the Russians have ignored Indians completely on the RD-93 and are likely to provide a more mature engine setup from day 1.
134Kn it is then.

 

[serenity]

It makes sense for the Chinese, since it's domestic and they can boost self-reliance and sort any issues in house.

For us it could be better to use the Russian engine because we use Russian engines with the JF17 already. But we need to consider difference in performance/specs.

So you will buy a Chinese plane with a Russian engine even though the Chinese engine works just fine and and yiu partner in this sale is the Chinese.

Rumour rumour rumours....unbelievable

It's possible PAF ordered J-10CE with AL-31 as its condition for purchase due to possibly having more faith in Russian engine whether that is accurate and well reasoned or not. However this is but a rumor and J-10C models did use AL-31 so they can use those engines however the AL-31 will need to be ordered. Maybe China or Pakistan would need to place an order of 50 AL-31 engines from Russia if this is the case or maybe China can provide Pakistan with some left over AL-31 surplus if there are any which I doubt.

WS-10B has more thrust and is supposed to be more reliable than the old AL-31. CAC's factory building J-10C has been set up for WS-10B integration for many years already so I don't know how easy it would be for them to provide x number for PAF using older frame that is for AL-31. Maybe slightly used J-10C are the ones sold to PAF if that is the case.

Anyway this is rumor on top of rumor on top of some opinion, guesses, and more rumors. I think ToT on AL-31 however is a ridiculous rumor from messiach. This would require Russia agreeing to it which would also piss India off a lot. It would also be kind of pointless. Why would Pakistan want ToT on AL-31? It is nowhere near set up to build the engine under license or reverse engineer it. And if the purpose of ToT is simply for learning just so Pakistan can begin training some people in future roles for engine design, it is still hard to believe. It is more likely for China to give ToT and learning support for WS-10 and general high bypass turbofan technology including theory, design, and manufacturing. That would be delivered in a greater depth than any AL-31 ToT and it would also be more useful for Pakistan which would also be in China's interest if it can spare the time and energy for such a thing which I feel is highly unlikely.

Not so much since Russia already cooperated in setting up RD93 rebuild factory in Pakistan, it make perfect sense to go with the Russian engine for J10 also, I can also foresee another Russian engine for Pakistan's indigenous 5th gen project adding and enhancing more to that rebuild factory to maybe start some kind of engine parts manufacturing and become expert in maintaining/rebuilding Russian engines, just like we did with Mirage rebuild the factory with future prospects of starting complete engine manufacturing with Russian technical assistance.

But AL-31 and RD-93 are very, very different engines. Just because both are Russian doesn't mean some guessed and hinted at benefits or ease of whatever.

Pakistan only has some minor overhaul procedure and equipment for RD-93. It does not have ToT on RD-93 and it also doesn't build a single part of it. ToT for AL-31 would be for the purpose of at least being able to learn and apply that technology and also possibly for more which would include building it by Pakistan's own self or at least being able to make some parts to service and replace certain parts with.

No country has ever offered and given ToT on 4th generation engine yet. France's SAFRAN almost cooperated with India on Kaveri ressurection project but now they want to only directly sell India M88 engine with unknown level of ToT.

 

[Trango Towers]

It's possible PAF ordered J-10CE with AL-31 as its condition for purchase due to possibly having more faith in Russian engine whether that is accurate and well reasoned or not. However this is but a rumor and J-10C models did use AL-31 so they can use those engines however the AL-31 will need to be ordered. Maybe China or Pakistan would need to place an order of 50 AL-31 engines from Russia if this is the case or maybe China can provide Pakistan with some left over AL-31 surplus if there are any which I doubt.

WS-10B has more thrust and is supposed to be more reliable than the old AL-31. CAC's factory building J-10C has been set up for WS-10B integration for many years already so I don't know how easy it would be for them to provide x number for PAF using older frame that is for AL-31. Maybe slightly used J-10C are the ones sold to PAF if that is the case.

Anyway this is rumor on top of rumor on top of some opinion, guesses, and more rumors. I think ToT on AL-31 however is a ridiculous rumor from messiach. This would require Russia agreeing to it which would also piss India off a lot. It would also be kind of pointless. Why would Pakistan want ToT on AL-31? It is nowhere near set up to build the engine under license or reverse engineer it. And if the purpose of ToT is simply for learning just so Pakistan can begin training some people in future roles for engine design, it is still hard to believe. It is more likely for China to give ToT and learning support for WS-10 and general high bypass turbofan technology including theory, design, and manufacturing. That would be delivered in a greater depth than any AL-31 ToT and it would also be more useful for Pakistan which would also be in China's interest if it can spare the time and energy for such a thing which I feel is highly unlikely.

As I said this lady has stared the rumours and gone underground...there are a lot of people who do this. Al31 just doesn't make sense

 

[StraightEdge]

The Raphael two engines have less power than single engine J10C.

That's news to me, maybe I haven't read about J10c properly. Quick google search tells me that J10c produces 123/135 KN of thrust as compared to 150 KN in Rafale. Since J10c specifications are opaque and different places post different values, hard to find a reliable figure.
j-10 - wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And if they use Russian engine instead of Chinese, then it will be even lesser.