PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[serenity]

you are very paltu person.
Using my logic against me. won't work.
I was just trying to help your countryman, who is convinced that j10c is better than western jets. Proof of the pudding...
Frankly it's a very intriguing question. Where does Chinese defense equipment stand in front of the western equipment ? Because the wars of the future will be between western vs Russian vs Chinese.
A little conflict can be of quite useful in gauging where everyone stands.

Well this is like asking you to prove that Indian Rafale is superior to JF-17 block 3.

Rafale in IAF for some time now, no action despite tensions and even close to exchanges of fire on the ground at least. Much more tense and violent than Taiwan Strait has been between US and China.

IAF is convinced Rafale beats all even to suggest it can come to play with J-20. How come no action from India despite opportunities generously given to India to test your theory? You should remember that your Su-30MKI was defeated by JF-17 because it was unable to stop PAF strike package escorted by JF-17. Unable to defend Indian aircrafts and unable to attack PAF aircraft.

Where does Russian equipment stand in front of western equipment? Neither of them bother to find out either.

Where does western equipment stand in front of Chinese equipment. As Chinese have not made moves to find out, the West also has not made moves to find out. This logic of yours is a tautology but you fail to see how it flows many ways rather than just one.

Why don't you use your Rafales in a little conflict with PAF? Let's see where Rafale stands against JF-17 block I and II even.

Personally I like China's strategy. China wins as things are going. Even wins as the US and Europe heat things up for China. All it needs is no war and stability. War means distraction from the real goal, make your population truly productive and useful citizens. How to finish the journey I talked about earlier? Make sure the stupid devils do not get a chance to make war. Ensure their death and destruction if they do. Easily overcome all the worst they can throw at you which USA already has... full trade war they already lost and full tech war that is half effective but has not slowed China down and only served to mobilize and point out weaknesses in industry which is semiconductor foundry. This doesn't even slow China down so far in three years. The US fired 50% of their ammo and it was useless so they fired 99% of it now. Now they have no more trade war and conceded there but tech war is over as well. All the shots they can fire has been done.

Notice the only thing they are firing at China now is political in nature in forms of pathetic propaganda campaigns. Yet China is signing agreements left right and center with new partners. People and nations and leaders see the light. China is increasing exports and income YoY despite full trade and tech war bans. Personally I hope neither side go to war. This only hurts the common people who have fcking nothing to gain. If the US chooses to end everything with China, humanity can start again. We all know China is not interested in ending things. We are in the starting phase and barely even close to full potential. US is on the decline. Their society has cracked to its core. It is not the same as it was in the 1950s to 2000s.

China with the blessing of God, at the completion of its journey will finally resume its place and it's my hope it also improves itself as time goes on to be more worthy of the place. At this moment China is but less than 1/3 the potential of what it can be. Only $10,000 USD per capita roughly okay if adjusted for PPP and undervalued RMB China's more accurate GDP per capita is closer to $20,000. This is not much more than 1/3 what USA has. China is nearly 5 times the population but more than half are either retired now or above 50. In 30 years time, China's population is roughly 2/3 what it is now and if typical birth rates with development are anything to use, then possibly even 1/2. They are transitioning to autonomous and new paradigms of industry and moving up the value chain quite dramatically and quickly. In that time, far more resources are available to fewer people with far greater productivity per person and of course income not only due to lower population but higher value chain and new industries. At its peak, China's would be basically 2 to 3 times USA today at its peak. In 30 years, it is roughly got a population 700 million instead of 1.4 biillion+. In that time, USA will be roughly 400million. Both will be roughly equal (much more likely with China actually higher) in overall per capital productivity. USA will be much more multicultural and divided and filled with unnecessary conflict with more migration from culturally distinct places. I do not believe USA's overall productivity then will be comparable to how it was in the 1960s to 2000s era.

 

[ARMalik]

It looks like most of the members here and specially Chinese members agree that it is WS-10B engines in these J-10Cs. Not too long on this forum we had some high profile rumour spreaders on this forum talking about Russian Al-31s engines on J-10C !!!

 

[satyamev]

Well this is like asking you to prove that Indian Rafale is superior to JF-17 block 3.

Rafale in IAF for some time now, no action despite tensions and even close to exchanges of fire on the ground at least. Much more tense and violent than Taiwan Strait has been between US and China.

IAF is convinced Rafale beats all even to suggest it can come to play with J-20. How come no action from India despite opportunities generously given to India to test your theory? You should remember that your Su-30MKI was defeated by JF-17 because it was unable to stop PAF strike package escorted by JF-17. Unable to defend Indian aircrafts and unable to attack PAF aircraft.

Where does Russian equipment stand in front of western equipment? Neither of them bother to find out either.

Where does western equipment stand in front of Chinese equipment. As Chinese have not made moves to find out, the West also has not made moves to find out. This logic of yours is a tautology but you fail to see how it flows many ways rather than just one.

Why don't you use your Rafales in a little conflict with PAF? Let's see where Rafale stands against JF-17 block I and II even.

their is currently peace between India and Pakistan. No border shooting, no artillery battles, negligible friction in kashmir. I think its difficult to recall such a peaceful time between the two countries.
I personally am sure that India and Pakistan will come to blows in a few years. Because it's a negotiated peace for both sides to catch a breath and rearm . Nothing has changed in the respective positions. Claims have actually become more extreme with Imran laying claims to areas which were settled in 1947 , outside kashmir.
The best test of a weapon system is in the hands of the original creator. A 3rd party user might be accused of being inefficient in its use.
I don't advocate a all out war , just a small skirmish like we had in 2019. Proved to be very useful for India. Our weaknesses in the electronic sphere were revealed. Imagine if with the same weaknesses, we had entered a major war ?

 

[Mohsin123]

SR is your interior minister. SR also repeated himself twice. ISPR reply was also in lines of what SR said. Senator Aon Abbas also confirmed the same news atleast 1 week ago.

Ab isky baad b agar community sceptical rahy to community ko littar marny chaahye.

Well if sombody believes SR even if he is an IM after all his failed predictions ''dekho ji meri syasi baseerat kehti hai .....`` then no difference between dead brain political followers and them
Yahi sari quom lal haveli lay bahir election main bhangray dalay gi`` wazir azam sheikh rasheed, J10 lay kay aaya sii....``
If you want a political discussion lets move to another thread , let's not derail this thread

 

[Talon]

VIPER SUPREMACISTS CELEBRATING J-10's ARRIVAL

 

[serenity]

their is currently peace between India and Pakistan. No border shooting, no artillery battles, negligible friction in kashmir. I think its difficult to recall such a peaceful time between the two countries.
I personally am sure that India and Pakistan will come to blows in a few years. Because it's a negotiated peace for both sides to catch a breath and rearm . Nothing has changed in the respective positions. Claims have actually become more extreme with Imran laying claims to areas which were settled in 1947 , outside kashmir.
The best test of a weapon system is in the hands of the original creator. A 3rd party user might be accused of being inefficient in its use.
I don't advocate a all out war , just a small skirmish like we had in 2019. Proved to be very useful for India. Our weaknesses in the electronic sphere were revealed. Imagine if with the same weaknesses, we had entered a major war ?

Well Pakistan is heavily outgunned by India in sheer size of firepower. On the serious end of war, both have nuclear de-escalation mechanisms built into these conflicts with the hope that neither side is crazy enough to break those mechanisms.

So Pakistan knowing the obvious size difference, has emphasized other ways to try and counter. Like how Sweden has particular tactics and strategies to deal with Russia. These are generally effective in small conflicts as these are most useful at this scale as large conflicts have pure force overwhelming special advantages such as PAF's electromagnetic advantages over IAF in 2019.

You are right. India did notice the gap and the problem they have. This means Pakistan must go forward more (which costs resources) for showing its hand and giving India a lesson that was not expensive enough to justify to be honest. Now India knows, maybe it knows it needs to overcome this in xyz ways and surely works on it.

So you don't advocate for war but earlier you call for it for others.

I simply pointed out how you desire others to show their hand and prove themselves and also suffer the always negative consequences of war (even for victors there are negatives).

 

[RealNapster]

Well if sombody believes SR even if he is an IM after all his failed predictions ''dekho ji meri syasi baseerat kehti hai .....`` then no difference between dead brain political followers and them
Yahi sari quom lal haveli lay bahir election main bhangray dalay gi`` wazir azam sheikh rasheed, J10 lay kay aaya sii....``
If you want a political discussion lets move to another thread , let's not derail this thread

Mere siyasi baserat kehti Hy is a way of saying as far as my experience goes. It is opinion. But when he says J-10 AA Raha flypast Hy he is stating a fact and a future planned event. Dono me farq Hy bhai

 

[Bilal.]

VIPER SUPREMACISTS CELEBRATING J-10's ARRIVAL

View attachment 815868

And calling it Block 52 equivalent:|

 

[baqai]

No, he specifically stated its not beyond Block 50/52. It's just not about bigger engine, DSI, etc.

I think only AESA alone is enough to make it step above the Block 52s, correct me if i am wrong please

 

[shofotolavski]

Link please? Does he have a Twitter?

歼十啊，总能整点新花样~【亚洲特快】_哔哩哔哩_bilibili

巴基斯坦前两天确定了将会购买歼10的外贸型号，作为候选型号，今天我们就来聊聊歼10未来的发展可能性吧。, 视频播放量 802820、弹幕量 6261、点赞数 46034、投硬币枚数 5987、收藏人数 2813、转发人数 504, 视频作者 观察者网, 作者简介...

www.bilibili.com

Sorry this is a Chinese video for Pakistani friends who understand Chinese
Also, his audio program is worth listening to, one participant is a former employee of the intelligence service

观棋有语186：从乌克兰畅销到哈萨克的红色羽绒服_哔哩哔哩_bilibili

观棋有语186：从乌克兰畅销到哈萨克的红色羽绒服共计2条视频，包括：观棋有语186：从乌克兰畅销到哈萨克的红色羽绒服、音质修复等，UP主更多精彩视频，请关注UP账号。

www.bilibili.com

Professional military reporters' guesses about the future J-10 fighter upgrade plan:
1. Continue to improve the engine, the right amount of engine
2. Similar to the upgraded F-16 SLEP program that has been abandoned by the United States, using J-20's detection system technology, helmet-mounted display,
3. Open-architecture software system to quickly add new equipment
4. The above technology is to realize the function of information node, similar to the battlefield detection capability of F-35
5. Intelligently judge battlefield information, and can share information, attack without the guidance of ground troops, and can share targets to artillery
6. Because it is closer to the front line than the early warning aircraft, and has an advanced detection system, it can implement and update the battlefield situation
7. New external fuel tank (but it is likely not to be used, which will hurt high-speed performance)
8. There will be no twin-engine J-10 (the previous design has been scrapped)
9. The chief designer of J-20 said that "the design of J10 is too early, and there are regrets in terms of structure and materials". Maybe in the future, J-10 will further improve the structure and weight. If new materials and new structures are used to design it Possibly the highest thrust-to-weight fighter in the world
10. If the structure is redesigned, it may further improve the appearance of stealth
In addition, what was not mentioned in the video, the chief designer of the J-20 once said: In the way of improving the J20 in the future, small improvements will be marked according to batches, rather than giving him a new suffix. I guess, this already applies to the so-called future Chinese aircraft models.

Now Chinese state media reporters need approval from their units to open media accounts.
Active duty and retired military personnel also need the approval of the original unit to open media accounts and public lectures
So don't trust some self-media news

 

[baqai]

Actually Shaikh Rasheed is a politician and like many politicians he has his fair share of his idiocies and number of haters as well.

BTW Shaik Rasheed was the first one who at the time of F-16 purchase did the same stunt, he was the one who in an interview announced its agreement even before the announcement from US and Pakistani governments, he was Information Minister at that time and he specifically mention not only F-16 purchase but their corresponding blocks as well.

He is among one of few Politicians in Pakistan who have interest in defence systems but lack knowledge and understanding in these matters.

i think the only interest he has is to have the aura of "know it all" around him so he is taken seriously by general public and media, he does a pretty darn good job at that too

Thanks God he didn't mention Suzuki Engine .....

woh bhi CNG par ... bhai patrol 160 ka hu giya hai

 

[Mohsin123]

Mere siyasi baserat kehti Hy is a way of saying as far as my experience goes. It is opinion. But when he says J-10 AA Raha flypast Hy he is stating a fact and a future planned event. Dono me farq Hy bhai

You might have heard about a liar who cried ``sher aaya sher aaya`` or cried ``wolf!! wolf!!``. Its hard for me to believe a minister with countless failed truths under his belt for a stretegic prediction thats why skeptical till the end.

 

[serenity]

I think only AESA alone is enough to make it step above the Block 52s, correct me if i am wrong please

It almost definitely is enough on its own to make it a step above block 52 since J-10 and F-16 mechanically are similar size with F-16 having slightly better max payload, Similar range. J-10 has slightly higher service ceiling. Both have similar enough sustained turn and roll rates and J-10 has slightly better instantaneous turning. Thrust to weight slightly favors F-16 especially in military thrust since it is a slightly smaller and lighter fighter.

Since mechanically and in terms of performance, both are quite similar within similar ranges and overall balance, the differences come in electronics. Block 52 is an old aircraft developed in the 1990s with 1990s era electronics and technology. J-10C developed in the 2010s. Nearly two decades in difference in software capability, sensor fusion, sensors and avionics. I don't think F-16 block 52 has much of a serious integrated EW suite like J-10C. At least the PAF would know all about JF-17, F-16 52, and J-10CE to have the most accurate knowledge of where each truly stand.

AESA is simply better in every single way to pulse doppler radar, and in most ways it is FAR superior. It has functions that pulse doppler physically cannot do. Like comparing incandescent lamp to LED to be used on a car for those functions. Pulse doppler fighter tactics are very different. AESA fighters can in some situations afford to switch radars on or do in bursts where fighter's software nowadays can make seriously good use of short time bursts of already low probability of signal interception. The variety of signal change and combination breaking and amplifying is horizons beyond PD radar. So this difference alone shifts the balance FAR in favor of modern AESA fighter over any PD fighter.

A F-15C will have no hope in BVR against a JF-17 block 3. Zero chance. Yet one is certainly much more impressive in many ways than the other. J-10C in exercise even against J-11B in BVR has shown J-11B with a decade older avionics is no match for the modern fighter. Only after introducing wide range of supporting assets and new factors did J-11B turn the tide a little.

Now consider that F-16 block 52 is armed with 2000s era missiles. SD-10 may only be comparable to US 1990s and 2000s era AMRAAMs but PL-15 is something different. We are currently not sure if PL-15 sold to Pakistan is weakened export model or what. Since some suggest there may be a missing mid course guidance update equipment on PAF's new J-10CP, supposedly meaning that the PL-15 is PL-15E and restricted and the J-10CE/P sold is not including this for whatever reason. This is just a rumor and not proven at all though. But having said that, even with nerfed PL-15E, this is still vastly superior to the 1990s and 2000s era AIM-120. Let's just ignore this rumor though since I do not think PAF would agree to accepting a restricted and intentionally nerfed J-10CE and PL-15E if it is spending money unless the PLAAF's PL-15 is just that far ahead and true range and capability are too sensitive since it is currently the high tier missile in PLAAF. This is I think the only reason for if China has only allowed Pakistan to purchase a downgraded or changed PL-15E version just in case leaks from PAF to US allows US to know the full range of the same PL-15 used by PLAAF. Perhaps in exchange for any true downgrades, China offered the packages at a much more agreeable price.

 

[Riz]

VIPER SUPREMACISTS CELEBRATING J-10's ARRIVAL

View attachment 815868

you makes one patwari pajeet so angry

 

[serenity]

歼十啊，总能整点新花样~【亚洲特快】_哔哩哔哩_bilibili

巴基斯坦前两天确定了将会购买歼10的外贸型号，作为候选型号，今天我们就来聊聊歼10未来的发展可能性吧。, 视频播放量 802820、弹幕量 6261、点赞数 46034、投硬币枚数 5987、收藏人数 2813、转发人数 504, 视频作者 观察者网, 作者简介...

www.bilibili.com

Sorry this is a Chinese video for Pakistani friends who understand Chinese
Also, his audio program is worth listening to, one participant is a former employee of the intelligence service

观棋有语186：从乌克兰畅销到哈萨克的红色羽绒服_哔哩哔哩_bilibili

观棋有语186：从乌克兰畅销到哈萨克的红色羽绒服共计2条视频，包括：观棋有语186：从乌克兰畅销到哈萨克的红色羽绒服、音质修复等，UP主更多精彩视频，请关注UP账号。

www.bilibili.com

Professional military reporters' guesses about the future J-10 fighter upgrade plan:
1. Continue to improve the engine, the right amount of engine
2. Similar to the upgraded F-16 SLEP program that has been abandoned by the United States, using J-20's detection system technology, helmet-mounted display,
3. Open-architecture software system to quickly add new equipment
4. The above technology is to realize the function of information node, similar to the battlefield detection capability of F-35
5. Intelligently judge battlefield information, and can share information, attack without the guidance of ground troops, and can share targets to artillery
6. Because it is closer to the front line than the early warning aircraft, and has an advanced detection system, it can implement and update the battlefield situation
7. New external fuel tank (but it is likely not to be used, which will hurt high-speed performance)
8. There will be no twin-engine J-10 (the previous design has been scrapped)
9. The chief designer of J-20 said that "the design of J10 is too early, and there are regrets in terms of structure and materials". Maybe in the future, J-10 will further improve the structure and weight. If new materials and new structures are used to design it Possibly the highest thrust-to-weight fighter in the world
10. If the structure is redesigned, it may further improve the appearance of stealth
In addition, what was not mentioned in the video, the chief designer of the J-20 once said: In the way of improving the J20 in the future, small improvements will be marked according to batches, rather than giving him a new suffix. I guess, this already applies to the so-called future Chinese aircraft models.

Now Chinese state media reporters need approval from their units to open media accounts.
Active duty and retired military personnel also need the approval of the original unit to open media accounts and public lectures
So don't trust some self-media news

The J-20's designer's hints imply that CAC has not changed J-10's core structural design and manufacturing since J-10A in point 9. At least not changed by much. I think he means also that the aerodynamic design of both J-10 main types (by geometry) control what materials and internal structures can apply. So even by the 2000s and 2010s when CAC was building and modifying J-20 prototypes, and materials and structural design has moved far ahead, they didn't bother applying those new technologies to J-10B and C. Most likely meaning even by production and completing development of J-10B, those new technologies were not matured enough to use on new production lines and methods. They then never spent the money and time to apply it to J-10 line, being happy with the speed and what the capability offers. Basically if some J-20 production technologies, materials, and internal structure design can be applied to J-10, it could offer J-10 far superior thrust to weight and general performance including payload possibly.

However it is clear that the external panels of B and C are different to A. At least the paint is but the surfaces are also smoother. This shows the production methods have upgraded at least for surface finish. For internal structure engineering, the FC-31 from SAC revolutionized some things with use of 3D printing bulkheads even back in 2011 when the prototype was built. The manufacturing processes of course is the invisible improvement. Same with rocket making and even HGV production, certain processes they say have been made far more efficient and allow high volumes of HGV production.

Similar to several hints given on revolutionary production methods for aircraft and rockets. We got those hints through the official cartoons that always leak shreds of information intentionally and at the recent Zhuhai airshow.