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Operation Rah-e-Nijat (South Waziristan)

Troops enter Saraogha:

ISLAMABAD (Agencies) - Troops killed 33 militants but faced mortar fire and street battles as they entered militants’ stronghold of Sararogha during an offensive against Taliban and foreign extremists on Saturday, the military said.

The latest casualties reported in a military statement bring to 297 the total number of insurgents reported killed since the operation was launched in the mountainous tribal terrain of South Waziristan on October 17. Seventeen militants were killed and two soldiers injured when government troops surrounded the town of Karama, a stronghold and training centre of Uzbek militants, the military said.


Troops enter Sararogha | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online
 
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and the most technologically superior country in the world couldnt prevent 911. funny eh!

Funny that they couldn't stop one attack on 9/11 but how many times has terror struck there again?

Fatman, about time you bought a notepad: make two columns and mark them the "US" and "Pakistan". Find newspapers dating back to 9/11; make a tick for every single terrorist attack that takes place in the US and every single one of them that takes place in Pakistan. Continue till today: November 1, 2009.

The US learnt their lesson and increased coordination between their agencies. Ours are still stuck disregarding each other. We need to stop being so Pakistani all the time and move forward -- and of course learn our lessons.



which war r u watching!:rofl:

The one that has been engulfing my country for the last seven years with my specs on at all times (they are brand-new, the glasses are scratch-free and shiny-- fog-free and anti-glare as well). I suggest you go for an eye check-up as well.... about time baba-ji.

Are the Talibans bulldozing the PA bunkers with tanks? Do they have C-130s for their supplies? Do they have helis to air-drop their troops? Lol... hell no.
 
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Elmo

“” There is a surplus of divisions deployed on the eastern front. That's the bane with the deployment in NWFP and FATA --- that the military is still focussing on the eastern threat and not shifting enough divisions. There are reserve divisions at both Pano Aqil and Mangla to cover up the deficit.””

The above is based on the premise that the Indian threat at the Eastern border has essentially diluted, or significantly degraded. The reality is:
1. India’s peaceful disposition is moderated by the United States on the premise as the de facto recognition of the primacy of India in South Asia, which includes a significant leverage on the events in Afghanistan.
2. De facto recognition of the narrowing gap between Conventional deterrent and nuclear threshold, to a level that the Nuclear option ceases to matter in a strategic context and a more logical option is to abandon it altogether. In the cold war parlance “Better Red than being dead”.
3. Kashmir is essentially a settled issue.
4. Pakistan has accepted “Bhutanization” as fait accompli.

Simply put, this is the case of Goal Substitution. PA has substituted its role as Defender of the Nation and accepted a surrogate status to fight the “US war on Terror”. This is a gross betrayal of trust of the nation that has dedicated almost 8% of GDP and 60% of disposable budget to sustain a bloated oversized Army.


“”But the question is, have our commanders even been conditioned to fighting unconventionally?””

Unconventional warfare does not mean:
 Wasting precious national resources chasing a few AK-47 wielding wild eyed crazies
 Leveling villages
 Chasing scurrying screaming tribal villagers out of their homes into IDP camps.
 Deploying massive air power on your own territory.
 Facilitating attacks by a Foreign Power on your own territory (drones).

Unconventional warfare means audacious deep strikes against a numerically and technologically superior enemy and achieve a stalemate. Kargil was about the only unconventional operation in recent history, which was botched in grand style due to poor planning.

“”Plus the divisions deployed on the LoC are heavy divisions in contrast to the regular divisions, meaning your personnel strength is double. So those alone come to 28,000 per division (including all the support personnel)””.
Kindly share this number with our dear friend Taimikhan

“”Now see that's where all the confusion comes in. You are talking about infantry being overworked, and all the earlier operations had artillery and armour over-worked. Till there isn't transparency and accountability we can only shoot arrows in the dark””.

No Sir. I never said we have a shortage of Infantry. Being a nation of Professional Chowkidars we can field a Million Infantry soldiers. Our problem is the WW I mindset that still considers the Real Army to be infantry.

“”Insurgency is the new face of war.””

This is called as the “Georgia Syndrome”. Georgian Army had deployed about 2000 soldiers in Iraq since 2003. Approx 8000 Georgian Army troops had “trained” with the US Army in Iraq over the years, and they actually thought that they have developed a formidable battle hardened force. On 9 Aug 2008 when approx 7000 Russian 58th Army troops penetrated through the Roki tunnel into Georgia and SU-27’s / SU-25’s established local air superiority; approx 30,000 “Unconventional battle hardened” Georgian troops based in Gori 70 kms to the South, started running towards Tbilisi. The rout was simply incredible!!
 
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“”Plus the divisions deployed on the LoC are heavy divisions in contrast to the regular divisions, meaning your personnel strength is double. So those alone come to 28,000 per division (including all the support personnel)””.
Kindly share this number with our dear friend Taimikhan

Javed, told you before also, if you don't know about anything then don't poke your nose in it as it makes you look bad. Discuss about the things that you know about. Once again to clarify your misconception, i told you in one of the previous posts too that the strength of the division is based on the operational requirements, which means where the division is based, what it has to face, in how much number, importance of the location, importance of the mission. She is talking about LOC, any idea what that means ?? LOC means Line of Control between India and Pakistan in the AJK region, the border area along the Northern Areas up to the Siachen theater of operations. Now it is a very long boundary and area to defend against an Indian strength of more then double the strength of ours. Its very hilly and a difficult terrain and the deployment of troops and the fight over there is not like the one done in plain deserts or plain areas of Punjab. I have lived in Kashmir right near to the LOC, i know what division is based, how many brigades, how many units and the strength of one division deployed along LOC is not 28,000, its less. By the way we don't have just one division there. Its a hot zone, so we definitely need heavy division with some extra manpower to protect such a vast boundary. Our discussion was related to SWA operations & troop deployments there, and once again get this into your mind that the strength of a division in peacetime location would be the normal standard strength but the ones deployed in operational areas or on borders would be enhanced to cater to the requirements of that specific area keeping in focus the enemy being faced and the threat from the troops deployed by the enemy.

If i had been wrong before, people on this forum with military background in the sense of having served in the armed forces would have contradicted me instead of pushing the thanks button.

Hopefully this time you would be understanding the issue on hand.
 
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South Waziristan fighting kills at least seven militants

ISLAMABAD: Security forces battling pockets of resistance in a Taliban stronghold in a mountainous tribal region killed at least seven militants Sunday and injured several more, officials said.

The fighting took place in the village of Kaniguram, which Pakistan attacked during its two-week-old offensive in South Waziristan, one of the semi-autonomous tribal regions where the Taliban has grown in power in recent years.

The officials, from Pakistan's intelligence branches and the paramilitary Frontier Corps, spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorised to speak with the media. - Dawn News

---------- Post added at 03:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:10 PM ----------

Pakistan’s ‘desperate’ Uzbek fighters far from home

ISLAMABAD: Far from home and with nowhere else to go, desperate Uzbeks known for their fighting skill and brutality have fled a major offensive in Pakistan's tribal region, officials and residents say.

The natives of Uzbekistan in Central Asia, cut off from their homeland for years, are the largest group among foreign militants backing Taliban fighters now in the crosshairs of US drone attacks and Pakistani ground troops.

‘I don't believe that these guys are going to stay there and fight until dying. They will try to escape,’ said Rahimullah Yusufzai, an analyst specialising in the tribal areas.

‘They will keep fleeing — to survive.’

Government forces on October 17 began a major offensive designed to crush the Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) movement in the mountainous tribal region of South Waziristan, bordering Afghanistan.

‘Sherwangi was a hub of foreign fighters. Uzbek terrorists gave us a very good fight,’ Major General Khalid Rabbani, commander of Pakistan's 9th Infantry Division, told reporters flown into the battle zone last week.

After several days of resistance, Uzbek and other defenders abandoned the village of Sherwangi Tor to government troops, but continue their resistance elsewhere in the area, the military said.

On Saturday it reported stiff resistance and street fighting in Kanigurram, which the army has called an important Uzbek base.

‘Many terrorists have been killed. Many others have fled in deeper territory but we cordoned off the entire area,’ Rabbani said.

But local residents and officials said Uzbeks were moving away from the area of fighting to find new safe havens in North Waziristan with their families.

Analysts say many belong to the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU) which, created in 1991, is often cited as a top security concern by governments in Central Asia and in Pakistan considered allies of Al-Qaeda and the Taliban.

Under the Taliban regime in Afghanistan they carved out bases in the north and opposed the government of President Islam Karimov in Uzbekistan.

The United States branded IMU a terror organisation in 2000 and the Uzbeks were forced out of Afghanistan by the US-led invasion in late 2001.

Along with hundreds of foreign militants, they found shelter across the border in Pakistan's tribal belt, where they won the support of local tribesmen.

According to the military, that support waned after the Uzbeks killed several local people, and were involved in kidnapping and other crime.

‘They have to survive. That's why they join all these powerful Taliban groups,’ Yusufzai said.

Although minor unrest still flares in Uzbekistan, the militants have failed to bring about a change in their homeland.

Mahmood Shah, who until 2006 was security chief for Pakistan's tribal belt, called the Uzbeks cannon fodder for Al-Qaeda and the Taliban.

‘They are tough soldiers,’ he said but, separated from their homeland, their lives have become ‘purposeless’ and they are fighting for no real cause.

Shah described them as ‘desperate in the sense that they have no place to go.’

Few Uzbeks cross the porous border to fight in Afghanistan where more than 100,000 Nato and US troops are battling a Taliban insurgency, analysts said.

Pakistan's military spokesman Major General Athar Abbas told reporters that government forces faced up to 10,000 militants, including 1,000 foreign fighters, in the South Waziristan area of operations.

Shah said he believed the Uzbeks would stay and fight, although they may be doing so without their leader Tahir Yuldashev.

Yuldashev was reportedly killed by a US missile strike in August around Sararogha, part of South Waziristan where Pakistan is focusing its offensive.

His death has not been verified, but Yuldashev's demise would be a blow.

Shah said he stood out as an educated and religious man among a group which has ‘been away from civilisation for so long’ that its members lack morals.

Yuldashev had a five-million-dollar US bounty on his head. Shah said Yuldashev had direct contact with Al-Qaeda, and defeating his followers is an important part of the battle against militancy in Pakistan.

‘We should kill as many as possible because these are the foot soldiers that Al-Qaeda has,’ he said.

With communication lines down and journalists barred from independent access to South Waziristan, the Uzbeks could not be reached for comment.

In their quest to survive, the Uzbeks ‘will always remain aligned to some strong, local group,’ said Yusufzai.

DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Pakistan?s ?desperate? Uzbek fighters far from home
 
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Unconventional warfare means audacious deep strikes against a numerically and technologically superior enemy and achieve a stalemate. Kargil was about the only unconventional operation in recent history, which was botched in grand style due to poor planning.

No it doesn't.

Kargil is conventional warfare largely. I am referencing wikipedia here because I can't access certain papers on the topic right now gut this is a fair guide. There are some on the Small Wars Journal website besides some papers by US Congressional Committees and the US Army's reports in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Vietnam.
Unconventional warfare is against insurgencies, that are more political in nature, that aim to subvert the government etc etc.


Unconventional warfare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



No Sir. I never said we have a shortage of Infantry. Being a nation of Professional Chowkidars we can field a Million Infantry soldiers. Our problem is the WW I mindset that still considers the Real Army to be infantry.

I didn't quite get what you were trying to say here. What is the purpose of the real army? who comprises it? what are we short on these days?

This is called as the “Georgia Syndrome”. Georgian Army had deployed about 2000 soldiers in Iraq since 2003. Approx 8000 Georgian Army troops had “trained” with the US Army in Iraq over the years, and they actually thought that they have developed a formidable battle hardened force. On 9 Aug 2008 when approx 7000 Russian 58th Army troops penetrated through the Roki tunnel into Georgia and SU-27’s / SU-25’s established local air superiority; approx 30,000 “Unconventional battle hardened” Georgian troops based in Gori 70 kms to the South, started running towards Tbilisi. The rout was simply incredible!!

Yes... but Iraq is COIN and Georgia versus Russia is conventional warfare. No wonder they failed to hold any ground.



Javed, told you before also, if you don't know about anything then don't poke your nose in it as it makes you look bad. Discuss about the things that you know about.

How about you enlighten us all... everyone learns something from the other here and this whole rebuffing act isn't helpful.


She is talking about LOC, any idea what that means ?? LOC means Line of Control between India and Pakistan in the AJK region, the border area along the Northern Areas up to the Siachen theater of operations.... I have lived in Kashmir right near to the LOC, i know what division is based, how many brigades, how many units and the strength of one division deployed along LOC is not 28,000, its less. By the way we don't have just one division there.

For Javed and Taimi, the exact numbers and even the deployment of a division is confidential. I don't know about the previous discussions between the two of you but to give an exact number is difficult — you have to realise it's sensitive info.

Taimi... 28,000... That has been the number deployed on the border, I am talking with reference to X Corps and its three heavy divisions and not about the FCNA (with its four normal-sized divisions) further up north. Enough said about it here.
 
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First of all, Mehsud call themselves TTP, not The Taliban, its the wazir tribe and Afghan ones who use and are referred to as The Taliban.

Okay... what's the difference between being members of the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan and just being Taliban? Do you mean that you can follow the Taliban ideology and not support the al-Qaeda like the TTP.... do you have other differences in mind as well.

Afghan Taliban were already fed up of them as they had repeatedly told them to not to fight PA, rather concentrate there but to no avail as Afghan Taliban don't like to make PA & GoP fully against them.

Could you link this up with sources. From what I gather you are implying the Afghan Taliban are peaceful and never subscribed to/supported the views of al-Qaeda.



Well problem in discussing tactics and strategies is, that it will take don't know how many pages to discuss, as there are tactics involved on so many fronts, you have night fighting techniques, surveillance & reconnaissance, how the movements of troops takes place, how the engineers detect and disable IEDs and mines as this time in both operations very rarely we hear of advancing troops getting injured or killed by IEDs or mines even the militants must have planted God knows how many, add to it the booby traps, how the heights are being captured, NLI units are very good at that and quiet some of them have been utilized as they are our mountain warfare experts, this time you see the troops first capture the surrounding heights, clear the adjacent area, secure it and then launch the assault on the villages, plus a lot of fighting takes place at night time, as PA is using this to their advantage, same happened in swat also. If you have something specific that you wish to discuss then do let know otherwise its a very long discussion and argument thing, due to which i did not went into dept.
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He is saying we are over stretching the resources, not that we don't have the resources. Resources are there but its just that the resources available for some specific area or objective are being utilized for areas or objectives which were not planned for initially.


We can start a new thread on it. I want to go into that department as have gotten bored of the limited topics we discuss things about here. There are many military minds here who will provide insights. Plus it hasn't been done before on any other forum--- it will be fun and interesting. More like a challenge.

By this time we all know each other quite well: who's the liberal, the conservative, right wing and left-wing, fascist or not, the biggest fan of the army or not. How many arguments can we have about the blame-games ay?

Move a couple of steps up into uncharted territory.


hmmmmmm, well that is the name that i remember, would you be kind enough to tell the one that you heard which is fancier and snappier :)

Lol... my bad I was confusing it with "Daraghalam" in Darra Adam Khel. Zal-zala seemed so ordinary when you look at all the op names (sher dils and eagle swoops) that it stuck out.

troops did not wished to kill own countrymen, troops would used to be thrust forward without securing or looking after the flanks and rear, due to which many times troops would used to get cut off and either killed or captured, fortunate ones would escape back. Army was in no great numbers, hardly a division strength rather a brigade or so, FC used to be relied a lot, which was in reality unreliable, due to their training, people from the same area and tribe being put forward to attack own tribesmen, BUT FC guys did showed a lot of courage in some very tough engagements. In many places they hold of the attacking militants who used to be in greater numbers, the FC guys who held and gave a fight to hundreds of attacking militants at the Sararogha Fort, some got killed, some captured and some reached the Jandola base on foot. If anyone says it wasn't half-hearted effort, well then they don't know what was happening over there. In the videos of this operation you won't be seeing FC guys anywhere, which is a frequent scene we would see in operations in other areas.

I ditto that. We relied way too much on FC --- without realising ground factors at play. Have repeatedly said that in many a post earlier but no one agreed.


Except for Fazllulah, i believe the top 5 or 6 commander of Swat TTP either killed or captured. Many others among the top commanders also killed or captured, rest would be also. I believe the figure of captured or surrendered has reached around 1000, the 900 figure was confirmed to me by someone who is involved there.

Compare that to the total initial estimate of anywhere from 5,000 to 10,000. What happened to the rest?


so the army guys were casual and paid the price in the face of trust, that there is a peace agreement.

There is a saying about fighters, primarily in the tribal belt. They never ever abandon a post... they will let go but always return to their base when the enemy least expects it.


Its not very easy to live in mountains with no basic necessities. The main aim is to dislodge them from their safe heaven, let them go into mountains, they will get bored themselves over there

Have you seen the kind of supplies these men have?



Vietnam was communism for US, for locals it wasn't otherwise US won't have gotten a defeat. As for Malaya, you are right but the large factor played in succeeding the COIN operation was the stupidity done by the communists themselves which made the locals go totally against them and some innovative thinking by the British forces. If the people of Lebanon or some majority group representing locals doesn't wants a peace keeping force then what else you gonna call it? A peace keeping force having Americans that too :) ?? ISAF is also a security force, but they are thought as oppressors.

I had meant Israel Defence Forces not ISAF. It's okay. The threat was to South from the North, US had just butted in to help the South who did not want the communists from taking over. Britain succeeded in Malaya as their moves were largely political and aimed to pacify sentiments.
 
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ISPR UPDATE - 1 NOVEMBER 2009
No 451/2009-ISPR Dated: November 1, 2009
Rawalpindi - November 1, 2009:


1. South Waziristan - Operation Rah-e-Nijat

a. In last 24 hours, 9 terrorists have been killed while 2 terrorists were apprehended from SWA. Security forces losses are 2 soldiers Shaheed and 2 injured. Details of operations are as follows:-

(1) On Jandola – Sararogha Axis.

Security forces have surrounded Sararogha from three directions and operation is progressing smoothly. Security forces have completed sanitization of Zariwam and consolidation of positions around Point-1435, Point-1342, Point 1389 and Point 1290.

(2) On Shakai - Kaniguram Axis

(a) Search and clearance operation of Kanigurm has commenced and fifty percent of the town has been cleared. The detail of operation is as follow:-

(i) Area along the road up to Biga north of Kanigram has been cleared.

(ii) Area North West of Badar Algad up to Kaniguram has been cleared.

(iii) Terrorists fired with small arms and rockets at security forces check post. Resultantly 1 soldier was injured and 4 terrorists were killed near Asman Manza.

(iv) Khazar Manzor Ziarat south of Asman Manza has been secured.

(v) Security forces apprehended 1 terrorist and recovered 1 machine gun alongwith 2 spare magazines near Asman Manza.

(vi) During clearance operation at Karama the stronghold of Uzbeks, security forces recovered and destroyed two caches of mines, explosives, ammunition along with 1 medical operation theater equipped with Russian equipment and 1 ammunition and explosive laden vehicle.

(vii) Security forces apprehended 1 terrorist from Karwan Narai.

(viii) 2 soldiers embraced shahadat and 1 was injured while 5 terrorists were killed during exchange of fire at Patok Narai.

(3) On Razmak- Makeen Axis.

Security forces have surrounded Makeen from three directions and cleared Litta Sar area. Consolidation is in process.

(4)]During last 24 hours security forces have recovered huge quantity of arms and ammunition during search and clearance operations along all three axes:-

(a) 3 x 14.5 mm guns with 1200 rounds.

(b) 3 x 12.7 mm along with 60 ammunition boxes and 1455 rounds.

(c) 2 x Light Machine Guns and 2 Light Machine Guns mounted Vehicles.

(d) 8 x Rifles 303 and 4 (mark-4) rifles.

(e) 16 x Rockets of RPG-7 with 59 rockets.

(f) 4 x 7mm rifles.

(g) 1 x SMG with 6 magazines and 500 rounds

(h) 5 x Walki talkie sets.

(j) 10 x Communication sets, 6 x Jammers.

(k) 1 x Telescope and 2 binoculars.

(l) 1 x Communication System (PATCOM Antenna).

(m) 12 x HE Grenades and 24 arges grenades.

(n) 11 x Fire extinguisher vehicles and 2 blasting machines.

(o) 5 x Anti tank mines.

(p) 4 x Heavy mortars with ammunition.

(q) 1 x missile launcher and 3 missiles from Nawaz Kot during operation.

(s) 25 x 82 mm bombs.

(t) 1 x SPG-9 grenade launcher along with 50 rockets.

(u) 15 x Passports.


2. Swat - Malakand - Operation Rah-e-Rast

a. 2 terrorists voluntarily surrendered to security forces at Bishbanr and Shadhand Banda.

b. Security forces conducted search operation at Durshkhela and apprehended 7 suspects.

c. Security forces found a huge cache of ammunition from a hollow tree dug out at Sore Banda near Piochar and recovered following ammunition:-

(1) 2100 x Rounds of 14.5 mm.

(2) 35 x Boxes of AK-47 rounds and 8 Russian boxes.

(3) 72 x Rounds of 12.7 mm and 620 x Rounds of Small Machine Gun.

(4) 505 x Rounds of 7 mm rifle.

(5) 200 x Rounds of Light Machine Gun.

(6) 2 x Grenades of SPG-9

3. Relief Activities

a. 7,203 cash cards have been distributed amongst the displaced families of Waziristan.

b. Army Field Hospital has been established at Ratta Kulachi stadium at D I Khan and treated 50 patients.

c. Army helpline and complaint cell (Telephone number 0996-740439) has been established at D I Khan.
 
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c. Security forces found a huge cache of ammunition from a hollow tree dug out at Sore Banda near Piochar and recovered following ammunition:-

That's actually a very clever tactic by terrorists. Who knows how many still remain.
 
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Waziristan operation may achieve objectives by mid-December: FM

* Qureshi says Taliban leadership on the run
* Pakistan seeks role in new US strategy on Afghanistan
* Poorly-planned troop surge could push militants into Pakistan

KUALA LUMPUR: The army hopes to rout the Taliban in South Waziristan before a bitter cold sets in, Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi said on Sunday.

“The operation so far has been very successful. The resistance that we were expecting initially did not come with the same swiftness we were expecting,” Qureshi – who is in Kuala Lumpur to attend a meeting of Islamic countries starting Monday – told reporters.

“South Waziristan is an area which is very important in order to check terrorist activity in Pakistan. Not just Pakistan, but beyond,” said Qureshi.

He said the armed forces had surrounded the area and choked supply lines to the Taliban. “They are on the run. They are in retreat and there is disarray over there,” he said.

Qureshi said it would be difficult to give a timeframe for total military success, but “we would want to achieve our objectives as much as possible before the winter sets in”.

“And it seems, as things are going on, that we might be able to do so ... I can’t give you a date, but that area becomes very cold (by late December). We want to operate and establish our foothold before that.”

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, during a visit to Pakistan, said it was hard to believe that no one in Pakistan’s government knew where the Al Qaeda leadership was hiding.

Qureshi dismissed suggestions that Clinton’s rebuke was an embarrassment. He said Clinton was not being “negative or sarcastic”, but “objective” because she was speaking as a partner in the war on terror.

Qureshi urged the US to coordinate with Pakistan as it fights Al Qaeda in Afghanistan’s border area.

“We feel a troop surge which is well-coordinated with us would produce results ... Pakistan’s point of view is that it is not only the numbers that will count in Afghanistan. It’s how you use those numbers.” He said he told Hillary that the US could benefit from Pakistan’s input.

Qureshi said he put the request for closer involvement in the US deliberations to Hillary Clinton during her visit to Pakistan.

Qureshi said that a well-coordinated surge in troop numbers would have a good chance of success, but a poorly planned escalation could merely push militants across the border into Pakistan. agencies

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
 
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Uzbek fighters flee South Waziristan offensive

* Officials say Uzbeks moving away from fighting area to find new safe havens in North Waziristan

ISLAMABAD: Far from home and with nowhere else to go, desperate Uzbeks known for their fighting skill and brutality have fled a major offensive in the tribal region, officials and residents say.

The natives of Uzbekistan in Central Asia, cut off from their homeland for years, are the largest group among foreign militants backing Taliban fighters now in the crosshairs of US drone attacks and Pakistan ground troops.

“I don’t believe that these guys are going to stay there and fight until dying. They will try to escape,” said Rahimullah Yusufzai, an analyst specialising in the Tribal Areas. “They will keep fleeing – to survive.”

“Sherwangi was a hub of foreign fighters. Uzbek terrorists gave us a very good fight,” Major General Khalid Rabbani, commander of the 9th Infantry Division said.

After several days of resistance, Uzbek and other defenders abandoned the village of Sherwangi Tor to government troops, but continue their resistance elsewhere in the area, the military said.

On Saturday it reported stiff resistance and street fighting in Kanigurram, which the army has called an important Uzbek base.

“Many terrorists have been killed. Many others have fled in deeper territory but we cordoned off the entire area,” Rabbani said.

But local residents and officials said Uzbeks were moving away from the area of fighting to find new safe havens in North Waziristan with their families.

Analysts say many belong to the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU), which, created in 1991, is often cited as a top security concern by governments in Central Asia and in Pakistan considered allies of Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

Under the Taliban regime in Afghanistan they carved out bases in the north and opposed the government of President Islam Karimov in Uzbekistan.

The US branded IMU a terror organisation in 2000 and the Uzbeks were forced out of Afghanistan by the US-led invasion in late 2001.

Along with hundreds of foreign militants, they found shelter across the border in the tribal belt, where they won the support of local tribesmen.

According to the military, that support waned after the Uzbeks killed several local people, and were involved in kidnapping and other crime.

“They have to survive. That’s why they join all these powerful Taliban groups,” Yusufzai said.

Although minor unrest still flares in Uzbekistan, the militants have failed to bring about a change in their homeland.

Mahmood Shah, who until 2006 was security chief for the tribal belt, called the Uzbeks cannon fodder for Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

“They are tough soldiers,” he said but, separated from their homeland, their lives have become “purposeless” and they are fighting for no real cause.

Shah described them as “desperate in the sense that they have no place to go.”

Few Uzbeks cross the porous border to fight in Afghanistan where more than 100,000 NATO and US troops are battling a Taliban insurgency, analysts said.

Pakistan’s military spokesman Major General Athar Abbas told reporters that government forces faced up to 10,000 militants. afp


Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
 
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Taimikhan

“”Javed, told you before also, if you don't know about anything then don't poke your nose in it as it makes you look bad. Discuss about the things that you know about””.

I I don’t know much about the Army. This forum is a great learning opportunity for me, to learn pearls of wisdom from all round experts like your good self.

Just a few days ago you were insisting that Divisions strength is only about 7200 personnel. My “naïve” assessment was between 12,000-16,000 depending on the mission (includes TO&E, terrain, opponent formations and logistics tail). Then you had accused me of “not knowing anything”.

Now you are comfortable with a figure of 28,000; which in my naïve assessment is a far cry from 7200.
 
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Pakistan’s ‘desperate’ Uzbek fighters far from home

Sunday, 01 Nov, 2009

Local residents and officials said Uzbeks were moving away from the area of fighting to find new safe havens in North Waziristan with their families.

ISLAMABAD: Far from home and with nowhere else to go, desperate Uzbeks known for their fighting skill and brutality have fled a major offensive in Pakistan's tribal region, officials and residents say.

The natives of Uzbekistan in Central Asia, cut off from their homeland for years, are the largest group among foreign militants backing Taliban fighters now in the crosshairs of US drone attacks and Pakistani ground troops.

‘I don't believe that these guys are going to stay there and fight until dying. They will try to escape,’ said Rahimullah Yusufzai, an analyst specialising in the tribal areas.

‘They will keep fleeing — to survive.’

Government forces on October 17 began a major offensive designed to crush the Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) movement in the mountainous tribal region of South Waziristan, bordering Afghanistan.

‘Sherwangi was a hub of foreign fighters. Uzbek terrorists gave us a very good fight,’ Major General Khalid Rabbani, commander of Pakistan's 9th Infantry Division, told reporters flown into the battle zone last week.

After several days of resistance, Uzbek and other defenders abandoned the village of Sherwangi Tor to government troops, but continue their resistance elsewhere in the area, the military said.

On Saturday it reported stiff resistance and street fighting in Kanigurram, which the army has called an important Uzbek base.

‘Many terrorists have been killed. Many others have fled in deeper territory but we cordoned off the entire area,’ Rabbani said.

But local residents and officials said Uzbeks were moving away from the area of fighting to find new safe havens in North Waziristan with their families.

Analysts say many belong to the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU) which, created in 1991, is often cited as a top security concern by governments in Central Asia and in Pakistan considered allies of Al-Qaeda and the Taliban.

Under the Taliban regime in Afghanistan they carved out bases in the north and opposed the government of President Islam Karimov in Uzbekistan.

The United States branded IMU a terror organisation in 2000 and the Uzbeks were forced out of Afghanistan by the US-led invasion in late 2001.

Along with hundreds of foreign militants, they found shelter across the border in Pakistan's tribal belt, where they won the support of local tribesmen.

According to the military, that support waned after the Uzbeks killed several local people, and were involved in kidnapping and other crime.

‘They have to survive. That's why they join all these powerful Taliban groups,’ Yusufzai said.

Although minor unrest still flares in Uzbekistan, the militants have failed to bring about a change in their homeland.

Mahmood Shah, who until 2006 was security chief for Pakistan's tribal belt, called the Uzbeks cannon fodder for Al-Qaeda and the Taliban.

‘They are tough soldiers,’ he said but, separated from their homeland, their lives have become ‘purposeless’ and they are fighting for no real cause.

Shah described them as ‘desperate in the sense that they have no place to go.’

Few Uzbeks cross the porous border to fight in Afghanistan where more than 100,000 Nato and US troops are battling a Taliban insurgency, analysts said.

Pakistan's military spokesman Major General Athar Abbas told reporters that government forces faced up to 10,000 militants, including 1,000 foreign fighters, in the South Waziristan area of operations.

Shah said he believed the Uzbeks would stay and fight, although they may be doing so without their leader Tahir Yuldashev.

Yuldashev was reportedly killed by a US missile strike in August around Sararogha, part of South Waziristan where Pakistan is focusing its offensive.

His death has not been verified, but Yuldashev's demise would be a blow.

Shah said he stood out as an educated and religious man among a group which has ‘been away from civilisation for so long’ that its members lack morals.

Yuldashev had a five-million-dollar US bounty on his head. Shah said Yuldashev had direct contact with Al-Qaeda, and defeating his followers is an important part of the battle against militancy in Pakistan.

‘We should kill as many as possible because these are the foot soldiers that Al-Qaeda has,’ he said.

With communication lines down and journalists barred from independent access to South Waziristan, the Uzbeks could not be reached for comment.

In their quest to survive, the Uzbeks ‘will always remain aligned to some strong, local group,’ said Yusufzai.
 
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The one that has been engulfing my country

very interesting i seem to remember otherwise from your previous posts!
 
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