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Operation Rah-e-Nijat (South Waziristan)

Taliban destroyed 473 schools in FATA, Malakand: Malik

ISLAMABAD: Interior Minister Rehman Malik on Friday said the Taliban torched 409 educational institutions in Malakand Division, and 64 in FATA. Calling the Taliban “professional killers and liars”, the minister said they were enemies of Islam and Pakistan and had nefarious designs to destabilise the country. Malik reiterated the government’s firm stance of uprooting the menace of extremism and terrorism from the country.

app
 
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operational details are never revealed/disclosed during a ongoing op by any army let alone PA. after the ops are done, yes indeed!



Operational details... you have IDPs flooding the surrounding districts from particular tehsils, it's not like there is a mass exodus from every single one of them. Since so many people "quote" their own sources, it would just have required a couple of heads to come together.

But anyways, sure... look forward to doing that after the operation's up :tup:


Ooopppssss :eek: :rofl:, had no clue to that.


No problem! Not many do in fact.



watch your 6.

Thanks for the info, still have to watch my 6 :)


Lol... the knowledgeable and high-esteemed chairman really has Elmo figured out to a T. Yes, TaimiKhan, I growl, bark, bite and attack and you should really really be watching your back.
 
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“”The rushed US supply, valued at hundreds of millions of dollars, includes troop transport helicopters, spare parts, night vision goggles, body armour and eavesdropping equipment, The New York Times said, citing senior American and Pakistani officials. The help, meant for both Pakistan’s spring offensive in the Swat Valley and the current operation in South Waziristan has come despite Pakistan’s efforts to downplay America’s role in its fight against the Taliban, al-Qaeda and other terror groups, the officials told the newspaper””.

The Army is fighting the US war with an unprecedented zeal and dedication; and raking up victory after victory against the bad guys. Token gifts of a few NVG’s and 4 trans-shipped old Mi-17 choppers have boosted the morale to new heights. PAF is testing its high resolution SNIPER pods against targets in a text book firing range greatly enhancing its skills. The bombs and shells dropped are promptly being invoiced. Life does not get any better than this.

Our recent history has a dearth of victories on a REAL battlefield. It is a great feeling to enjoy a semblance of victory on our own soil.

With about a 1/3rd of our forces strength dedicated to fighting various battles on our own soil, our relationship with India has been given a new perspective. Dreams of localized strategic parity have been replaced by a peaceful demeanor a la Bhutan. The US foreign secretary has sold us on the value of abandoning our nuclear posture in the medium term, and we will soon get rid of this expensive indulgence for the larger good of humanity.
 
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That's is why i used the word try, as in this place would be little difficult to do such thing. But just to clarify, majority of the Mehsud tribe were living out of fear, as their main elders got killed and they had no place else to go, so they had to live there and support them.


i disagree most of these are with the taliban because if they dont their families will be killed and they will be brutally murdered. Once they realise that the pakistani army is here to stay they will work with the army just as the people did is Sawat.

We talk of coercion, fear... but to what extent. Forget religion, what about ethnic loyalties? It's something that one is constantly thinking of lately.


Army adopted many strategies in the past operations, this one was planned in very detail, by looking at all the previous operations.

Taimi, how do you compare it with the ones they applied in the earlier operations in the
a) SWA,
b) Bajaur,
c) Mohmand
d) Khyber
e) Swat

vis-a-vis (i) military strategy and (ii) tactics.

And let's not bring in the "political" bit into it. Will keep it short that way.


Yes, i do agree reason being a multiple axis operation also stretches the resources of the militants, they can't concentrate their forces on one side of the battle, knowing enemy is coming from all the sides makes them in a confused mind of state. If you look at the weapons being captured, the passports and pictures of the people, computers and their traveling bags, i believe militants were not even expecting something like that. They ran in haste leaving behind such things and many useful weapons, just look at the number of AA guns captured so far. Instead of staying and fight they resume to running in the confusion. They may be hardened fighters but they can't win a conventional war that also when army coming from multiple sides.

But this isn't standard warfare. Guerrillas never engage in pitch battles. This is what has been happening for the last 8 years or so and this where the army has been criticised for treating it like conventional warfare. The insurgents have mastered "hit-and-run" attacks, that's their arena.

So between making the insurgents run and them leaving behind laptops/guns, what is important. The reduction in their numbers (by killing them, capturing them or surrender) or taking over their supplies?

And as for security analysts, Sir as many mouths as many would be theories. Army planners are not stupids to have done such strategy. Issue in such operations are not known to people who have not participated in such operations. Its very easy to say to drop soldiers and it can be done too, but how many resources are available to do that ??

Really, most of the analysis one has read and seen on television is by former army men. Or may be as they say, there are very few retired army men who are on good terms with the PA.


Need helicopters for that, not some but many, same helis would be needed in other places too, wear and tear would be more as we have limited resources. Once you drop the soldiers, then you need a constant supply channel using the helicopters on daily basis nearly. There would be dozens of such peaks, just see how much resources would be needed to keep them supplied.
Such tasks can be done effectively by SSG, but they have been already used a lot, plus its just the start of operation, many hard battles are still to be fought, SSG would be needed in future.

Lol... the last time blain2 was telling me how the SSG spearheads all operations, wherever and whenever they happen.

You see that's what doesn't make sense. And this isn't only about the PA or the current operation. You move people from three directions, you are busy fighting on three fronts, you are spending a lot of money. Why not consolidate one area and then move to the next? So you focus on one target, get over it and then spread outwards.

As for Swat i don't think there is any resurgence, rather with each passing day we are seeing more arrests and army controlling more area and more area coming into the controlled and cleared area.

The operation ended two months back and the army is not controlling more and more area now :)


Same thing happened in Swat, people who got registered and then did not came back and army got info that who they real were, army and police know their names, ID card numbers and last known place of residence and relatives and friends, many were captured from other cities, still many getting captured too.

Yes, that is what one pins their hopes on as well. Intelligence has to be the backbone more than firepower.

If you deny insurgents a base to operate from then they can't challenge you in force and with passage of time will die down. It was done in Swat, they now don't have a place to meet and train and plan. scattered and surrendering or getting killed.

They don't die down as the US is learning the hard way in Afghanistan. They wither away and then come together and attack you again and again. You have Britain in Malaya, the US in Veitnam, the Tamil insurgency, the attacks in Lebanon during the 1980s and then there were the attacks on the Israeli Defense Forces... classic COIN at play. The insurgents don't need to come together en mass. Just the "brains" that "guide" them have to working.

Plus, the cities and towns are not their hideouts, It's the mountain tops and caves. Did you see that one long tunnel that the army found in a mountain in Swat. Who'd have thought it was there even.


In my opinion it is practically not possible to move in without capturing the heights and that's exactly how the operation is conducted.

Not right now. There is ground battle first, towns and cities are the priority. Later will they go to securing the mountains.
 
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“”ISLAMABAD: Interior Minister Rehman Malik on Friday said the Taliban torched 409 educational institutions in Malakand Division, and 64 in FATA. Calling the Taliban “professional killers and liars”, the minister said they were enemies of Islam and Pakistan and had nefarious designs to destabilise the country. Malik reiterated the government’s firm stance of uprooting the menace of extremism and terrorism from the country””.

Rehman Malik himself epitomizes the great values of truth and honest discourse. Through his honesty and hard work he rose through the ranks from a do gooder “manpower exporting” FIA inspector to H.E the Minister of Interior. His great taste landed him several expensive properties in the UK. Now his job is to crush the terrorist forces on our Holy soil.
 
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"On the other hand the wazir tribe & the Afghan Taliban living in the wazir tribe dominating area do not wish to fight the PA until provoked or out of frustration have to, they are more focused towards Afghanistan..."

I'm confused (again).

A.M. insists that the afghan taliban insurgency is all internal to Afghanistan with the exception of a few "foreigners". Yet you've indicated in your conversation with Elmo that there are tribal elements in the Islamic Emirate of South Waziristan (I presume followers of Nazir and Bahadur) that are focused upon Afghanistan too.

We know this. You know this. Yet were you discussing such with me instead of Elmo, would you have admitted as much?

Given this, do you anticipate the P.A. ever double-crossing these tribes that fight in Afghanistan and make war upon them or is America sending its aid to the P.A. strictly for Pakistan's narrow purposes? Further, should we assume that the GoP and the P.A. assist these tribes in their endeavors by fighting their enemies but not them.

So does this mean the GoP and PA support the targeting and slaughter of Afghans who are killed at the hands of the Nazir and Bahadur minions?

Is this what is meant by Pakistan's assistance in the WoT?:rofl:

Maybe you or the esteemed think-tank chairman can answer this small question as it troubles many Americans who know B.S. when they read it.

Thanks and, uh...go get 'em guys:tup::agree:!:usflag:
 
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With about a 1/3rd of our forces strength dedicated to fighting various battles on our own soil

It's not a third of our forces that are fighting battles. Factually incorrect.
 
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Operational details... you have IDPs flooding the surrounding districts from particular tehsils, it's not like there is a mass exodus from every single one of them. Since so many people "quote" their own sources, it would just have required a couple of heads to come together.

But anyways, sure... look forward to doing that after the operation's up :tup:





No problem! Not many do in fact.








Lol... the knowledgeable and high-esteemed chairman really has Elmo figured out to a T. Yes, TaimiKhan, I growl, bark, bite and attack and you should really really be watching your back.[/
QUOTE]

we aim to please and try to bring out the best in everyone!
 
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Thanks and, uh...go get 'em guys

yes we are while your president dithers on what to do !:pakistan:
 
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"...yes we are while your president dithers on what to do !":pakistan:

You are doing no more than we've been doing for some years in Afghanistan so while our president takes his time to consider something MORE that we might do, the 68,000 troops there now on the ground HAVE and ARE remaining quite busy.

You seem quite proud of yourselves for FINALLY doing in the last year what should have been the case from day 1. Not for us, mind you, but yourselves.

Meanwhile, we're 6,000 miles from home and owe nobody, least of all Pakistanis, any explanation for what our troops do daily to help the afghan people.

And my question remains unanswered by taimikhan or you so if you're done patting yourself on the back, sir, perhaps you can find a brief moment to provide an objective explanation for these obvious incongruities regarding what it is that YOU DON'T DO...?

Thanks.:):usflag:
 
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"...yes we are while your president dithers on what to do !":pakistan:

You are doing no more than we've been doing for some years in Afghanistan so while our president takes his time to consider something MORE that we might do, the 68,000 troops there now on the ground HAVE and ARE remaining quite busy.

You seem quite proud of yourselves for FINALLY doing in the last year what should have been the case from day 1. Not for us, mind you, but yourselves.

Meanwhile, we're 6,000 miles from home and owe nobody, least of all Pakistanis, any explanation for what our troops do daily to help the afghan people.

And my question remains unanswered by taimikhan or you so if you're done patting yourself on the back, sir, perhaps you can find a brief moment to provide an objective explanation for these obvious incongruities regarding what it is that YOU DON'T DO...?

Thanks.:):usflag:

indeed - you abandon the Musharraf thread (dont know why - its not like you but maybe we overwhelmed you there) - once again you want to stay in the past and bringing it up again and again and i am pleading with you that things have changed since May this year and what ever information i can muster from friends serving on the front, "its about the here and now." - we may not be the best but we are trying to do our best as can a decietful ally.

Pakistan has made many mistakes in the past and so have the americans (your Honorable Sec of State admitted to that on her IMO very successful visit to our country).

Move Forward and provide alternatives which can help both sides!

Cheers and enjoy the "hot tadis" tonight.
 
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"its about the here and now."

Then you'll forgive me for asking what your troops in the here and now are doing that America's troops aren't.

Was that Stryker blown to shreds the other day with nine on board out on a trip to Disneyland? My point, simply, is our men sure as fcuk aren't on any vacation nor are they wasting their time. We've more missions than men.

If my President "dithers", he's good reason to do so and it's time that somebody tried to wrap his arms around it all. I won't begrudge him that and I didn't even vote for the guy but I don't think he's wasting his time one bit so while you look to focus on the here and now, don't presume that's not EXACTLY what he and our troops in Afghanistan right now aren't also doing.

Thanks.:usflag:

P.S.: Still waiting on that small matter of Taimikhan's comments to Elmo and the implications to that. Seems there are plenty here flipping out about some checkpoints but NOBODY's lost sleep over the years that Bahadur and Nazir's boyz have been digging holes, planting mines, and mortaring marketplaces in A-stan.

Planning on double-crossing those miserable fcuks anytime soon or will it continue to be business-as-usual with them?
 
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"...you abandon the Musharraf thread (dont know why - its not like you but maybe we overwhelmed you there)"

Don't see you bringing your story to the west side of cyberspace. I fight outnumbered here a LOT. You'll forgive me if a FOB or two gets over-run through sheer fatigue and barrels melting from time to time.

Don't forget to watch the Packer-Vikes at Lambeau early Monday and don't read the news till the game's over. It'll be one for the ages...;)
 
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Was that Stryker blown to shreds the other day with nine on board out on a trip to Disneyland? My point, simply, is our men sure as fcuk aren't on any vacation nor are they wasting their time. We've more missions than men.

where and when i have criticised your army and its kinetic actions! my difference is on strategy thats all.

ask TK for the answers you are looking - he's good enough to reply - in any case the answer has been repeated may times on this forum.
 
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