Open Debate | Ideal direction of Pak-Afghan relations.

[Kompromat]

Please discuss,what should be the ideal state of relationship between Pakistan and Afghanistan in a post war setting onwards.

Be civil.

Best Regards.

@Sher Malang @Afghan-India @Afghan Eagle @Afghan Strike @Afghan

@Spring Onion @farhan_9909 @ghilzai @Hyperion @Pak-one @Khan_patriot

@Icarus @Xeric @Abu Zolfiqar @jaibi @Luftwaffe and others.

 

[American Eagle]

Since Afghanistan is land locked, Pakistan should go out of it's way to allow duty free commerce thru it's Gwadar Port into Afghanistan. The two nations can work out a commerce treaty with a simple percentage of either gross or net revenue of all such commerce earned by Afghan businesses and/or the Afghan government.

Separately, Afghanistan would do well to develop a similar commercial treaty with Iran.

 

[jaibi]

I believe, there should be a cordial relationship between Afghanistan and Pakistan. For that we should be targeting an economic rather than defence route with perhaps the inclusion of Iran.

If such a state is not possible then the old dynamic of the 'third frontier' would once again raise its head with India using Afghanistan against Pakistan but the only way to avoid that is to strike first, so to speak, diplomatically and economically by tieing Afghani and Pakistani interests in a matrix.

 

[janon]

''Good fences make good neighbours.'' - Robert Frost.

 

[Icarus]

Our future interaction with the Afghan state will be governed entirely based on who holds power. If the Democratic Afghan Govt and ANP are able to hold their own (which I hope they do) they will need Pakistan's help to conduct business with India and they will also need access to ports which Iran is unlikely to provide them because the Iranian are vary of the Afghans (rightly so, if I might add). In such a situation, we have a very suitable opportunity to play a defining role in Afghanistan's business potential.

 

[janon]

Our future interaction with the Afghan state will be governed entirely based on who holds power. If the Democratic Afghan Govt and ANP are able to hold their own (which I hope they do) they will need Pakistan's help to conduct business with India and they will also need access to ports which Iran is unlikely to provide them because the Iranian are vary of the Afghans (rightly so, if I might add). In such a situation, we have a very suitable opportunity to play a defining role in Afghanistan's business potential.

Many of your fellow Pakistanis are hoping they won't, and eagerly hoping for the Taliban to take over. If I have gauged correctly, most Pakistani members on this forum hate the govt in power right now, and hero worship the Agh taliban as heroic resistance movement against foreigners. Some of your security agencies also have stakes in the 'resistance', which I'm sure you don't need to know from me.

So my question is, do Pakistanis really want the present form of governance to stabilize, and would Pakistan work to further that aim?

 

[Icarus]

Many of your fellow Pakistanis are hoping they won't, and eagerly hoping for the Taliban to take over.

There are very few ways the Taliban take over of power can go well for Pakistan and a lot of ways in which it can bring the situation back to the 90s.
It should, most definitely be avoided at whatever cost.

 

[janon]

There are very few ways the Taliban take over of power can go well for Pakistan and a lot of ways in which it can bring the situation back to the 90s.
It should, most definitely be avoided at whatever cost.

I hope that's the general feeling in the whole Pak establishment, and that views expressed on this forum are not indicative of the thinking prevalent in the state apparatus and security forces.

 

[Sugarcane]

Since Afghanistan is land locked, Pakistan should go out of it's way to allow duty free commerce thru it's Gwadar Port into Afghanistan. The two nations can work out a commerce treaty with a simple percentage of either gross or net revenue of all such commerce earned by Afghan businesses and/or the Afghan government.

Separately, Afghanistan would do well to develop a similar commercial treaty with Iran.

That duty free commerce end up in Pakistan instead of going into Afghanistan and damage our economy, and on other hand weapons and drugs comes from Afghanistan.

 

[Icarus]

I hope that's the general feeling in the whole Pak establishment, and that views expressed on this forum are not indicative of the thinking prevalent in the state apparatus and security forces.

GoP is looking at the end game, whereas regular people let religion and sentiment cloud their judgement. We have to preserve the state and anything that hinders that goal must be dealt with.

 

[American Eagle]

That duty free commerce end up in Pakistan instead of going into Afghanistan and damage our economy, and on other hand weapons and drugs comes from Afghanistan.

I did a poor job of commenting on this topic. Here I go again:

1. Pakistan needs to have reciprocal low or no import/export duties with Afghanistan, taking into account that Afghanistan is a land locked nation.
2. When parity, 1=1 is reached between Pakistan and Aghanistan, as one or the other will periodically have a favorable balance of trade with the other, then those trade or commerce values between Pakistan and Afghanistan could be "priced" so that over time, even with one or the other having momentary favorable balance of trade with the other, "parity" is sought via a variable rather than a fixed tarriffs (trade) formula.
3. Afghanistan should seek the same "partity" concept/formula with Iran.
4. This likely will cause friction and upset with those "Stans" which have contiguous borders with northern Afghanistan.

 

[Contrarian]

There are very few ways the Taliban take over of power can go well for Pakistan and a lot of ways in which it can bring the situation back to the 90s.
It should, most definitely be avoided at whatever cost.

That is not how a majority of Pakistani's are thinking or what they are hoping.

 

[BATMAN]

Since Afghanistan is land locked, Pakistan should go out of it's way to allow duty free commerce thru it's Gwadar Port into Afghanistan. The two nations can work out a commerce treaty with a simple percentage of either gross or net revenue of all such commerce earned by Afghan businesses and/or the Afghan government.

Separately, Afghanistan would do well to develop a similar commercial treaty with Iran.

Pakistan is not the only key to the land lock of Afghanistan.
However, if situation arise, when other 4 border countries of Afghanistan would build iron curtains, than conditional transit may be allowed, minimum conditions as following.

Conditions:
Officially, contracted as 'Jinnah Transit Aid'.
No arms or military related equipment be allowed to transit.

Security deposit:
To start with, Afghanistan should deposit a security fee of $10 billion.

reimbursement of expenses:
Pakistan should levy a (minimum) charge $5/kilo port processing fee, for all sort of transit.
All transit should be duly, inspected and marked, to avoid misuse of transit.

Import surcharge:There should be a $1/kilo import surcharge, which may be written off, depending on Afghan co-operation in trade with Pakistan and foreign affairs.

Strategic surcharge:
All consumable items be exempted from strategic surcharge and should be stamped as a gift of Pakistani nation to Afghan nation.
There should be $1/kilo strategic surcharge, for all non consumable items and all shipments, materials going beyond Afghanistan.
There shall be $2/kilo strategic surcharge for all consumable imports from India and $2/kilo for all non-consumable imports from India and $5/kilo for all imports from India destined beyond Afghanistan.

Further following surcharges can be added depending on calculated expenses:
Security surcharge, Environmental surcharge, Infrastructure surcharge etc.

Penalties:
If any stamped/marked/recorded, transited stuff ever found in Pakistan, than Afghanistan be made to pay penalty of $1 million on every such occasion.
If Afghanistan, try to import defense related material, it should be fined $5 million on each such discovery.
If an evidence found of Afghan involvement in terror activities inside Pakistan , all of their transit shipment within Pakistan borders and at ports, be confiscated for good and shall be only resumed once all of Pakistan's security agencies give clearance.
In case, when Afghan govt. issue anti Pakistan statement or its press print anti Pakistan report without prior approval of defense, interior, foreign and trade ministries of Pakistan, half of its security deposit should be confiscated and if Afghan regime found conspiring against Pakistani interest in partnership of second country, all of the security deposit should be confiscated.
Further transit aid be halted, until Afghan regime offer official apology, and pay an allocated fine to cover damages, last but not least re-new $10 billion of security deposit.

 

[Kompromat]

That is not how a majority of Pakistani's are thinking or what they are hoping.

Pakistanis shift their thinking according to their interests. Most Pakistanis would have a stable friendly govt in Kabul than having Taliban. Taliban can pose a threat to Pakistan too.

 

[MilSpec]

Pakistan is not the only key to the land lock of Afghanistan.
However, if situation arise that other 4 border countries of Afghanistan build iron curtains, than conditional transit may be allowed, minimum conditions n following manner.

Conditions:
Officially, contracted as 'Jinnah transit aid'.
No arms or military related equipment be allowed to transit.

Security deposit:
To start with, Afghanistan should deposit a security fee of $10 billion.

reimbursement of expenses:
Pakistan should levy a (minimum) charge $5/kilo port processing fee, for all sort of transit.
All transit should be duly, inspected and marked, to avoid misuse of transit.

Import surcharge:There should be a $1/kilo import surcharge, which may be written off, depending on Afghan co-operation in trade with Pakistan and foreign affairs.

Strategic surcharge:
All consumable items be exempted from strategic surcharge and should be stamped as a gift of Pakistani nation to Afghan nation.
There should be $1/kilo strategic surcharge, for all non consumable items and all shipments, materials going beyond Afghanistan.
There shall be $2/kilo strategic surcharge for all consumable imports from India and $2/kilo for all non-consumable imports from India and $5/kilo for all imports from India destined beyond Afghanistan.

Further following surcharges can be added depending on calculated expenses:
Security surcharge, Environmental surcharge, Infrastructure surcharge etc.

Penalties:
If any stamped/marked/recorded, transited stuff ever found in Pakistan, than Afghanistan be made to pay penalty of $1 million on every such occasion.
If Afghanistan, try to import defense related material, it should be fined $5 million on each such discovery.
If an evidence found of Afghan involvement in terror activities inside Pakistan , all of their transit shipment within Pakistan borders and at ports, be confiscated for good.
In case, when Afghan govt. issue anti Pakistan statement or its press print anti Pakistan report without prior approval of defense, interior, foreign and trade ministries of Pakistan, half of its security deposit should be confiscated and if Afghan regime found conspiring against Pakistani interest in partnership of second country, all of the security deposit should be confiscated.
Further transit aid be halted, until Afghan regime offer official apology, and pay an allocated fine to cover damages, last but not least re-new $10 billion of security deposit.

this made my day, post of the day!!! kudos,

If land locked state can be manupulated in this way, then may india should charge 1 cent per liter of water to the lower riparian

Pakistanis shift their thinking according to their interests. Most Pakistanis would have a stable friendly govt in Kabul than having Taliban. Taliban can pose a threat to Pakistan too.

Nopes!!!