No doubt China has confidence in its HQ-9s

[ChineseTiger1986]

And Russia has the lowest debt to GDP in the BRICS nations...China on the other hand is having issues of Debt with estimates of debt to gdp ratio at 240% for china-

The True Chinese Credit Bubble: 240% Of GDP And Soaring | Zero Hedge

China To Kick Bad Debt Hornets Nest | Zero Hedge

This is China's external debt, it is in the same level as Russia's.

External debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


If we talk about the public debt, China's public debt is higher than Russia's.

China: 31.7%

Russia: 12.2%

List of countries by public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[english_man]

This thread is so funny!

Well, i think we can all say that as China military technology advances at amazing pace...........then i cant see the Chinese having any problems from being a main exporter of arms in the future!

Infact, the only hurdle i can see for Chinese arms exporters, is the number of countries who would buy from them......but apart from that...its onwards and upwards for the Chinese!

 

[english_man]

Just my two pennies worth on the subject on economies posted on this thread.........

If you look at the 'US debt clock' and go to the worldwide countries section........you'll see that China's debt is actually coming down.....while the debt in the US and Europe is spiralling out of control!

For reference:- US debt is now nearly $17 trillion.................a mind boggling sum

while China has a surplus of between $2-3 trillion alledgedly..............an amount which could for example enable China to buy a major Western country such as Italy outright.

.........now back to the thread topic!

 

[Superboy]

The debt means nothing. Remember WW2 when America pumped out like 10 carriers per year? That's what I'm talking about.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Just my two pennies worth on the subject on economies posted on this thread.........

If you look at the 'US debt clock' and go to the worldwide countries section........you'll see that China's debt is actually coming down.....while the debt in the US and Europe is spiralling out of control!

For reference:- US debt is now nearly $17 trillion.................a mind boggling sum

while China has a surplus of between $2-3 trillion alledgedly..............an amount which could for example enable China to buy a major Western country such as Italy outright.

.........now back to the thread topic!

Actually it is the local governments in China who are too obsessed with the GDP growth, now the central government wants to control the annual GDP growth at a rate of 7-8%, the national debt will eventually go down with a slower growth.

As for the housing bubble, my consin got an apartment in the suburban area of Shanghai, his apartment keeps getting devaluated since last year. Only the housing price in the downtown area of Shanghai will keep rising because of the newly implemented free trade zone.

I think the rest of China, especially in the those medium cities, the housing price is coming down for all.

 

[Luftwaffe]

If by the same logic here, then every country propose a tender for new fighter aircraft should not hold any competition and go straight to buy American aircraft, while you lot still doing 5th gen prototype, US has been running 5th gen for almost 15 years, at this point, it would be at least 15 years ahead of any country in this world

F-22 is Not for sale thus you can't blame the russia/China/europe they are all developing in time, you point is illogical that US has it already so dump your projects.

Again if you are referring to "each system" regarding stealth Jet then every stealth plane in development has almost identical purpose to be stealth and multirole capabilities. As technologies mature and first and formost availability of tech will shorten the period of development of various systems/aircrafts etc thus 15 year or so and so year ahead is ridiculous. People considered russians to be ahead of anyone forever in space field turns out US is No 1 China No 2. This No 1 will lead to destruction that is how russians got bankrpt and that is where US is heading and that is what China has to think and focus not to spend unnecessary.

FD-2000 or HQ series must have certain advantages over PAC-3 it is Turkey that has tested that system in every scenario provided by China it must have achieved its goals/objectives. Now I'm going to ask you to answer how is HQ series not better than PAC-3 in certain aspects when you don't even have a single information except that the system is China that is all the information you've got which is only discussed between China and Turkey regarding the system specifications/TOT and joint/independent development/modifications on NATO specs and interoperable between western and eastern system...

 

[jhungary]

F-22 is Not for sale thus you can't blame the russia/China/europe they are all developing in time, you point is illogical that US has it already so dump your projects.

Again if you are referring to "each system" regarding stealth Jet then every stealth plane in development has almost identical purpose to be stealth and multirole capabilities. As technologies mature and first and formost availability of tech will shorten the period of development of various systems/aircrafts etc thus 15 year or so and so year ahead is ridiculous. People considered russians to be ahead of anyone forever in space field turns out US is No 1 China No 2. This No 1 will lead to destruction that is how russians got bankrpt and that is where US is heading and that is what China has to think and focus not to spend unnecessary.

FD-2000 or HQ series must have certain advantages over PAC-3 it is Turkey that has tested that system in every scenario provided by China it must have achieved its goals/objectives. Now I'm going to ask you to answer how is HQ series not better than PAC-3 in certain aspects when you don't even have a single information except that the system is China that is all the information you've got which is only discussed between China and Turkey regarding the system specifications/TOT and joint/independent development/modifications on NATO specs and interoperable between western and eastern system...

You are the one missing the point.

My point is, people here say

"Since Russian s300 system was beaten by Chinese FD2000 system, then Chinese middle tech is better than Russian missile tech"

Indeed F-22 is not for sale, but when you talk about the fighter aircraft technology, would you not agree the US was leading miles ahead? If we can all agree US fighter planes (not only stealth) are leading mile ahead, compare to the same logic I mentioned before, should the world should all go for US fighter planes tech if they ever need one?

How ILLOGICAL, you tell me

Now I don't really know how FD-2000 is or is not capable of doing anything, but I know one facts for sure.

That is the most advance platform are not necessary chosen by a country when they look at what they need, stupid country buy stuff looking at their price tag, but clever country buy stuff ACCORDING TO WHAT THEY NEED. You can say at most Chinese System SUIT best for turkey, but you cannot say Chinese system is in anyway better than the Russian one. I mean how can you even quantify what is BETTER? By their paper figure or they really do fire 100 of all the sample and look how many of them they can shoot down?

You are talking a SAM by the way, there are no good or better, as long as you can bring down plane and missile, they are good, or would you say the S-300 is a dud and cannot bring down anything in any circumstance?

 

[ptldM3]

Don't bring Europe into this. You are Russia. You are third-world Eastern Europe. There's a difference.

If the average Russian is many times wealthier then the average Chinese and we are third world, then what are the Chinese?

Never mind Russia is wealthier than any European country.

The reason why you keep going on and on about engines is because it's the only edge Russia has left.

If you concede that Russia has an edge in engines than Russia has an edge in mechanical engineering, metallurgy, software, and many other fields. Now think about what you just said; if Russia has an edge In these fields it would mean they can produce better tanks, better helicopters, pretty much better everything.

Seriously, name one impressive weapon system Russia has produced post Soviet collapse.

Name one.

I can name dozens such as S-400, Borei, or KA-50 but it's obvious your are a troll, that or you are genuinely naive.

The J-20 and J-31 make the PAK FA look like a joke.

Yet you can't tell me a thing about either of their capabilities. The pak-fa has 360 degree radar coverage as well as several different radar bands, TVC, supercruise, OLS, ect.

The J-20 as well as the J-31 has none of these attributes, so which aircraft is the joke again?

You guys are buying the Mistral-class from France.

Yet China is buying rusted soviet hulls from Ukraine.

Yeah sure miles ahead...

Fire breaks out on Russian nuclear submarine | Reuters

This is from your own source:

The fire started in a ballast area of the submarine during welding works after an acetylene torch was used to cut through a grate, setting a rubber seal, cables and paint on fire

Your cute attempt to troll just backfired on you

 

[Luftwaffe]

You are the one missing the point.

I don't want to go into illogical debate, it is very simple PAC-3 has its advantages, HQ-9/FD-2000 has its own advantages and merits. At this time you don't have internal information or for the fact any information from Turkish side regarding how good the system is and why it is chosen therefore you are in no position to declare is a level below PAC-3. The single biggest advantage is Transfer of Technology the basis of developing advance systems for the future. Yes so I agree Turkey being clever country chose a system from a country that gives it technology to further develop it and blend both eastern/western technologies and could be interoperable, this is indeed clever this gives Turkey huge advantage being NATO member, being region power, being well prepared for the future.

Have you read anything on my part saying FD-2000 is better then other systems I explained it has certain advantages. You on the other hand declared PAC-3 to be better than HQ-9/FD-2000 which leads you to your own contradictory statements.

 

[aliaselin]

If the average Russian is many times wealthier then the average Chinese and we are third world, then what are the Chinese?

Never mind Russia is wealthier than any European country.








If you concede that Russia has an edge in engines than Russia has an edge in mechanical engineering, metallurgy, software, and many other fields. Now think about what you just said; if Russia has an edge In these fields it would mean they can produce better tanks, better helicopters, pretty much better everything.








I can name dozens such as S-400, Borei, or KA-50 but it's obvious your are a troll, that or you are genuinely naive.






Yet you can't tell me a thing about either of their capabilities. The pak-fa has 360 degree radar coverage as well as several different radar bands, TVC, supercruise, OLS, ect.

The J-20 as well as the J-31 has none of these attributes, so which aircraft is the joke again?









Yet China is buying rusted soviet hulls from Ukraine.




This is from your own source:




Your cute attempt to troll just backfired on you

What do you mean by saying rusted Soviet?
Do Russian have better gas turbine engine than the rusted Soviet's GT-25000?
Do Russian have better transport plane than the rusted Soviet's An-225?
Do Russian have better CVs than the rusted Soviet's project 1143.5？
Do Russian have better hovercraft than the rusted Soviet‘s Pomornik？

 

[jhungary]

I don't want to go into illogical debate, it is very simple PAC-3 has its advantages, HQ-9/FD-2000 has its own advantages and merits. At this time you don't have internal information or for the fact any information from Turkish side regarding how good the system is and why it is chosen therefore you are in no position to declare is a level below PAC-3. The single biggest advantage is Transfer of Technology the basis of developing advance systems for the future. Yes so I agree Turkey being clever country chose a system from a country that gives it technology to further develop it and blend both eastern/western technologies and could be interoperable, this is indeed clever this gives Turkey huge advantage being NATO member, being region power, being well prepared for the future.

Have you read anything on my part saying FD-2000 is better then other systems I explained it has certain advantages. You on the other hand declared PAC-3 to be better than HQ-9/FD-2000 which leads you to your own contradictory statements.

Mate, did you even realise the bold3d part of your comment is actually echoing what i said??

There are no platform better or worse, there are only platform most suitable to different people.

I NEVER SAID PAC-3 IS EVERYBIT BETTER THAN FD-2000 in fact in both my post i have been very clear that there AREN'T ANY SYSTEM THAT'S BETTER THAN ANY OTHER SYSTEM.

I said

and can anyone honestly say Chinese FD2000 is every bit better than PAC-3

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...has-confidence-its-hq-9s-6.html#ixzz2h6JRBjtV

Does that automatically mean i am saying PAC-3 is every bit better than FD-2000?? Please do indicate at which point i said PAC-3 is every bit better than FD-2000 as indicated in red????

That's why i have said you fail to get my point. what kind of think tank are you?? Did you ever read other's comment properly?? nuff said

 

[sovcomflot]

This is China's external debt, it is in the same level as Russia's.

External debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


If we talk about the public debt, China's public debt is higher than Russia's.

China: 31.7%

Russia: 12.2%

List of countries by public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chinese govt is known for fudging data.Better to listen to Analyst's rather than official chinese propaganda.

If the average Russian is many times wealthier then the average Chinese and we are third world, then what are the Chinese?

Never mind Russia is wealthier than any European country.








If you concede that Russia has an edge in engines than Russia has an edge in mechanical engineering, metallurgy, software, and many other fields. Now think about what you just said; if Russia has an edge In these fields it would mean they can produce better tanks, better helicopters, pretty much better everything.








I can name dozens such as S-400, Borei, or KA-50 but it's obvious your are a troll, that or you are genuinely naive.






Yet you can't tell me a thing about either of their capabilities. The pak-fa has 360 degree radar coverage as well as several different radar bands, TVC, supercruise, OLS, ect.

The J-20 as well as the J-31 has none of these attributes, so which aircraft is the joke again?









Yet China is buying rusted soviet hulls from Ukraine.




This is from your own source:




Your cute attempt to troll just backfired on you

China is doing well in many fields,but what the chinese trolls are claiming is simply laughable.

You are the one missing the point.

My point is, people here say

"Since Russian s300 system was beaten by Chinese FD2000 system, then Chinese middle tech is better than Russian missile tech"

Indeed F-22 is not for sale, but when you talk about the fighter aircraft technology, would you not agree the US was leading miles ahead? If we can all agree US fighter planes (not only stealth) are leading mile ahead, compare to the same logic I mentioned before, should the world should all go for US fighter planes tech if they ever need one?

How ILLOGICAL, you tell me

Now I don't really know how FD-2000 is or is not capable of doing anything, but I know one facts for sure.

That is the most advance platform are not necessary chosen by a country when they look at what they need, stupid country buy stuff looking at their price tag, but clever country buy stuff ACCORDING TO WHAT THEY NEED. You can say at most Chinese System SUIT best for turkey, but you cannot say Chinese system is in anyway better than the Russian one. I mean how can you even quantify what is BETTER? By their paper figure or they really do fire 100 of all the sample and look how many of them they can shoot down?

You are talking a SAM by the way, there are no good or better, as long as you can bring down plane and missile, they are good, or would you say the S-300 is a dud and cannot bring down anything in any circumstance?

Research Monkey model concept.You will understand why Russian system was rejected.

 

[jhungary]

Chinese govt is known for fudging data.Better to listen to Analyst's rather than official chinese propaganda.



China is doing well in many fields,but what the chinese trolls are claiming is simply laughable.



Research Monkey model concept.You will understand why Russian system was rejected.

Lol whatever you say will not change the fact, turkey chooses Chinese system, not Russian.

Now, to sooth your ego, yes Russian missile is the best of the world

P.S. I was being sarcastic.
P.P.S don't ever try to answer someone else post, you don't even know what we're I talking about

 

[Informant]

Jhungary just give up to this sovcomflot. He is an ultra-nationalist Indian who even makes Russians feel awkward from his mind numbing rants.

 

[vK_man]

Lol whatever you say will not change the fact, turkey chooses Chinese system, not Russian.

Now, to sooth your ego, yes Russian missile is the best of the world

P.S. I was being sarcastic.
P.P.S don't ever try to answer someone else post, you don't even know what we're I talking about

I doubt Russia would offer a standard S-300 to Turkey considering that it is part of NATO.China has to build up on export market ,so in my opinion ,it offered a standard product to Turkey.

Good for chinese defence industry.Will build its client network.