Muslims and Christians come together in Kurdistan Syria

[T-123456]

I am not going to discuss semantics with you. I know the history of my Arab world. Arabs in all of Syria predate Kurds by many years. Be it Muslims or Christians. And Arabs are predated by the Semitic Assyrians. There is not more to discuss. You have not given a definition of what you consider Northern Syria. The areas around the Euphrates river in NORTHERN SYRIA have always been inhabited by Arabs in the last many hundreds of years. No Kurds were or are living there aside from recent immigrants.

Likewise I already told you that there are 1-1.5 million Arabs living in Turkey just in the areas north of those you claim that no Arabs lived in prior to 1972 inside certain parts of Northern Syria.



Arabs in Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look up all those provinces in Turkey. Bordering Syria or close to it. They settled there before the Turkic migrations to Anatolia so they obviously had a presence WAY before 1972 as you claim.

Most of Syria is fertile especially the areas inhabited by Arabs.

I am talking about the areas around Hassaka and north of it which are mostly inhabited by Kurds today. That was not the case always since it was inhabited by Assyrian Semites before. You cannot even make a Kurdish entity that stretches from west of Aleppo to Hassaka. So how can you talk about a "Syrian Kurdistan".

Eh, have you not told many times that you support a INDEPENDENT Kurdistan? This must mean that you want to divide Iraq, Syria, Turkey and Iran. How else do you want to achieve that goal?

I never wrote that Arabs have a 3000 year old presence in Turkey. Come again. I wrote Syria.
And your very own map PROVES that Arabs lived in areas in Turkey just north of those areas in Syria that you claim no Arabs lived in prior to 1972. Their presence there, as my link proves, is ancient (predates the Turkic arrivals to Anatolia) and has nothing to do with the year 1972. So you argument makes no sense.

Also 1400 years ago that area of Turkey was part of the Arab Caliphates. Most of Eastern and Southern Turkey was that.

People have dreams and fantasy's,dont take it to serious.
Arabs lived there for thousands of years.

 

[al-Hasani]

I am telling you that before any Kurds lived in those small parts of Northern Syria inhabited by Kurds today Arabs, Pre-Islamic (Christian) and Muslim lived there. And before that fellow Semitic Assyrians lived there. So this "who lived there first thing" is not in the favor of the Kurds at all.

Also the so-called Arab Belt that you speak so much about makes no sense because how do you otherwise explain the fact that approximately 1.5 million Arabs are living in Turkey just north of all those regions of Northern Syria that you claim no Arabs lived in prior to 1972. And that their presence in Turkey is ancient? Even predating the TURKIC migrations into Anatolia.

So your argument makes no sense and that is why I am telling you that Arabs lived in Northern Syria very much prior to 1972. Also prior to the appearance of Islam.

If you tell me now that you support an independent Kurdistan then you should stop lying and saying that you do not support the division of the Middle East.

The Shammar tribe in Syria numbers about 1 million people. Nearly as many as there are Kurds in ALL of Syria. It is not a united stance. But all of them are against Al-Asshead and probably also against any bad rebel forces that target civilians. Not sure what this has to do with our discussion. It is fine with me. I am only against Al-Asshead.

AQ is an international thing. Kurds are present there too. Nothing to do with Arabs. Most of the non-Islamic behavior in Syria has been committed by Chechens. AQ has no nationality. Everybody can join.

I already told you that I am happy about that cooperation and that I am not against it. I am in favor of us MIddle Eastern people cooperating more with each other since we are very close at the end of the day. More so than with any other peoples.

I am against dividing Syria and thus the region. Also I did disagree with your false claim of Arabs not living in Northern Syria prior to 1972 which is utterly false as proven above.

People have dreams and fantasy's,dont take it to serious.
Arabs lived there for thousands of years.

 

[Bahoz]

Your statements make no sense. You say that Arabs form the majority in almost all the cities at the other side of the border. How do you explain this then? How do you explain that Kurds form the majority at both sides of the border?

You can claim all you want that the Arab Belt never existed. I decide to listen to reliable sources instead and what local Arabs and Kurds have told me

The Arab villages in Ras al-Ain were part of the so-called Arab belt policy of the Syrian government along the Iraqi and Turkish border. A report by the Kurdish nongovernmental organization Kurdwatch stated that a total of 140,000 Kurds from 332 villages in the province of Hassakeh were deported and replaced by Arab families. The policy was agreed upon in 1965 and got underway in 1973.
“The Arabs came from the Arab belt. Whoever is in power, they support them. Because the YPG leaves them alone, they appreciate them. But if they can choose between the YPG and the regime, they would choose the regime. But they appreciate the YPG from liberating it from the Free Syrian Army [FSA],” said Kovan Direj, a local Kurdish journalist.


Read more: Syrian Arab Village Welcomes Kurdish Fighters - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East

An ‘Arab Belt’, a military zone along the Syrian borders with Turkey (822 km) and Iraq (600 km) was then established in much of the Kurdish-dominated al-Jazeera region. Arabs were enticed with agricultural subsidies and loans to settle along this belt.[6] This distanced and divided the Kurds from their counterparts in Turkey and Iraq. As a result, pan-Kurdish nationalism was and is weak.

Al jazeera Center for Studies - Reports - Iraqi Kurdistan & the Syrian-Kurd Pursuit of Autonomy

For many years the repressive Syrian government of Hafez Assad sought to maintain an Arab belt between its Kurds and those in Turkey and Iraq. This Arab belt uprooted many Syrian Kurds and deprived them of their livelihoods. There are no accurate official statistics on the number of Kurds in Syria because the Syrian government considers everyone to be Syrian-Arabic. Latest estimates indicate that Kurdish people constitute about 15% of Syria's population, amounting to nearly three million people. Many Kurds in Syria have even been denied Syrian citizenship.

EU Turkey Civic Commission - THE CURRENT SITUATION OF THE KURDS IN SYRIA

 

[al-Hasani]

@Bahoz

Now you are lying. Do you even read what I arm writing? First you said that I claimed that Arabs in Turkey had lived in Turkey for 3000 years. I never wrote that.

I said that they have lived in Syria for approximately 3000 years (written records) and including Northern Syria which you falsely have claimed that no Arabs lived in prior to 1972.

Also I never said anything about Arabs forming any majority in Southern Turkey outside the areas inhabited by Arabs in Southern Turkey. You are also making that up.

I am telling you, as a TURKISH MEMBER ALSO AGREED WITH and my links proved, that Arabs have been living in Southern Turkey since antiquity and before the Turkic tribes migrated to Anatolia in the 11th century.

So I am asking you how come they have lived in Southern Turkey just NORTH of Northern Syria for such a long time but suddenly just reappeared in Northern Syria 41 years ago despite Syria being an Arab country and having a approximately 3000 year old Arab presence in Syria.

If you are continuing to discuss in this way then our discussion has ended.

Also you have not explained how come you initially claimed that you are not in favor of splitting up the Middle East but a few post after you said that you "of course support a independent Kurdistan".

Those two things are two opposites.

 

[forcetrip]

There can be no divided syria and Kurds have proven to Assad that they are willing to work for the greater good of their people and Syria. They could have very easily caused more problems. I just hope both these parties can keep their word once the decease is taken care of. Saner minds will have to prevail. They should fall back into a broader syrians government and let past forget past ingression by both parties. It will take their all to remake this country.

 

[Doritos11]

I think the Iranic Kurds or Medians as they call themselves migrated to these areas which were inabited by Semetic folks ( Assyrians ) during the conquest of the Assyrian empire by the ( medo-persian) empire under Cyrus.

The cities they claim to be Kurdish all have history, some ancient cities like Kerkuk and Arbil which’s history is largely of Semetic empires/dynasties so still no Kurd has been explaining how they got there or whatever the story is supposed to be.

If you look at historic maps, Media is deep inside the Iranian plateau. Everytime I ask a Kurd to prove the Kurdishness of Kerkuk I hear that it’s the heart of Kurdistan..... but they said that about Suleymaniyah before, so no evidence of anything.

But no one will open a history book, in the end it all depends who is going to take what land ( war ).

 

[Bahoz]

Are you reading what I am writing? There were no Arabs in Northern Syria on the Syrian side of the Syrian- Turkish border. That is not my claim. That is the claim of all the links I have showed you. I am not disputing that Arabs have lived there for thousands of years. But their appearance in masses first began as the Arab Belt policy was implemented in 1973. I am not disputing that they probably did make up the majority some centuries back. But from early 1900 till 1973, the area was mostly inhabited by Kurds. Right until the Arab Belt was created in which hundreds of thousands of Arabs were again resettled along the border.

This is what you claimed;

Who told anything about there being a problem? I am telling you that you cannot talk about a "Kurdish Syria" outside that tiny area around Hasaka and north of it.

And why is that? Kurds form the majority on both sides of the border. And I already told you the definition of Kurdistan. A place where Kurds form the majority of the population and a place where Kurds have a historic presence. The presence of Kurds in Northern Syria dates back at least 700 years back to the Ayyubids. If Kurds form the majority on both the Turkish side of the border and the Syrian side then surely we can call it Syrian Kurdistan. I do not see why there is a problem in that. Based on ethnic composition that is. In Turkey there is a Turkish Kurdistan too. It is actually aknowledged by the PM Erdogan.

 

[al-Hasani]

I am telling you that before any Kurds lived in those small parts of Northern Syria inhabited by Kurds today Arabs, Pre-Islamic (Christian) and Muslim lived there. And before that fellow Semitic Assyrians lived there. So this "who lived there first thing" is not in the favor of the Kurds at all.

Also the so-called Arab Belt that you speak so much about makes no sense because how do you otherwise explain the fact that approximately 1.5 million Arabs are living in Turkey just north of all those regions of Northern Syria that you claim no Arabs lived in prior to 1972. And that their presence in Turkey is ancient? Even predating the TURKIC migrations into Anatolia.

So your argument makes no sense and that is why I am telling you that Arabs lived in Northern Syria very much prior to 1972. Also prior to the appearance of Islam.

If you tell me now that you support an independent Kurdistan then you should stop lying and saying that you do not support the division of the Middle East.

The Shammar tribe in Syria numbers about 1 million people. Nearly as many as there are Kurds in ALL of Syria. It is not a united stance. But all of them are against Al-Asshead and probably also against any bad rebel forces that target civilians. Not sure what this has to do with our discussion. It is fine with me. I am only against Al-Asshead.

AQ is an international thing. Kurds are present there too. Nothing to do with Arabs. Most of the non-Islamic behavior in Syria has been committed by Chechens. AQ has no nationality. Everybody can join.

I already told you that I am happy about that cooperation and that I am not against it. I am in favor of us MIddle Eastern people cooperating more with each other since we are very close at the end of the day. More so than with any other peoples.

I am against dividing Syria and thus the region. Also I did disagree with your false claim of Arabs not living in Northern Syria prior to 1972 which is utterly false as proven above.

@Bahoz

Now you are lying. Do you even read what I arm writing? First you said that I claimed that Arabs in Turkey had lived in Turkey for 3000 years. I never wrote that.

I said that they have lived in Syria for approximately 3000 years (written records) and including Northern Syria which you falsely have claimed that no Arabs lived in prior to 1972.

Also I never said anything about Arabs forming any majority in Southern Turkey outside the areas inhabited by Arabs in Southern Turkey. You are also making that up.

I am telling you, as a TURKISH MEMBER ALSO AGREED WITH and my links proved, that Arabs have been living in Southern Turkey since antiquity and before the Turkic tribes migrated to Anatolia in the 11th century.

So I am asking you how come they have lived in Southern Turkey just NORTH of Northern Syria for such a long time but suddenly just reappeared in Northern Syria 41 years ago despite Syria being an Arab country and having a approximately 3000 year old Arab presence in Syria.

If you are continuing to discuss in this way then our discussion has ended.

Also you have not explained how come you initially claimed that you are not in favor of splitting up the Middle East but a few post after you said that you "of course support a independent Kurdistan".

Those two things are two opposites.

Not going to repeat myself. Here are my posts again. And yes, I do actually read what you are writing not sure the same can be said about you in connecting to reading my posts. Maybe my posts are too long and too detailed or maybe you just need to read about the regions history.

 

[Doritos11]

Anyway Bahoz, it’s good you don’t get angry arguing with all of us, those guys on "Kurdistanskycrapers" they explode at the first post of an Arab or Turk.

 

[Bahoz]

You first need to aknowledge the Arab Belt. I understand why the demographic composition of Northern Syria is so hard for you to understand. If you keep denying the existence of the Arab Belt, you are not going to understand the modern history of the region. Once you aknowledge the existance of the Arab Belt things will become more clear for you mate.

 

[al-Hasani]

Are you reading what I am writing? There were no Arabs in Northern Syria on the Syrian side of the Syrian- Turkish border. That is not my claim. That is the claim of all the links I have showed you. I am not disputing that Arabs have lived there for thousands of years. But their appearance in masses first began as the Arab Belt policy was implemented in 1973. I am not disputing that they probably did make up the majority some centuries back. But from early 1900 till 1973, the area was mostly inhabited by Kurds. Right until the Arab Belt was created in which hundreds of thousands of Arabs were again resettled along the border.

PROGRESS! Well done. Then stop making utterly false and stupid claims of "no Arabs having lived in Northern Syria prior to 1972". Most of Northern Syria as in north of Palmyra is by far mostly inhabited by Arabs. Last time I checked, Aleppo the biggest town in Syria and majority Arab, is very much Northern Syria for example.

I have to do my research on all that. All I know, which I already provided sources for, a Turkish member agreed with, is that the Arab/Assyrian/Semitic presence in Northern Syria predate that of the Kurds by many, many hundreds of years so the game of "who came first" is a game that you Kurds are bound to lose.

Hence my similar example of areas in Northern Iraq that Kurds now claim to be part of a Kurdish land.

Lastly, where do you say that I deny the small Arab Belt?

Arab Belt or not then that those not change the fact that Arabs have lived in Northern Syria for approximately 3000 years (written records), and before that other people such as the Assyrians and before the Assyrians other Semitic people. Both Christian and Muslims.

Hence why you also have a ANCIENT presence of Arabs in Southern Turkey just north of those areas that predate the Turkic migrations to Anatolia.

All this points to the fact that Arabs very much lived in Northern Syria prior to 1972 (Arab Belt thing) that you falsely claimed in the beginning of the discussion. Now it seems that you have backtracked.

The point now is finding out what you wrote and I have to look for that.

Anyway it was inhabited by Arabs before any Kurds and that was the point. And before that by other Semitic people. So hence you cannot play the game "who came first" because you will loose.

Anyway this is not important today. Today most of the areas around Hassaka and north of it (that tiny strip of land between Iraq and Turkey) is inhabited by Kurds and the only "real" Kurdish area of Syria where Kurds are a clear majority.

 

[Bahoz]

Al Hasani, it is pretty clear from my intial posts that I am talking about the modern times and not from some pan-Kurdish perspective that you keep trying to turn things into. As I also told Doritos a dozen of times; history is really not a game changer when it comes to geopolitical battles. Doritos probably agree with me.

So when I said that there were no Arabs in Northern Syria prior to 1972 it is of course not meant to upset a pan-Arabist like yourself. It is merily speaking from a modern perspective.

Again, from 1900- 1972, there were close to no Arabs in Northern Syria. That is a fact. Arabs were resettled there during the Arab Belt era as I have been trying to point out for you. But this simply is too difficult for your pan-Arabic mind to accept.

So, you must have me exuced; I am not going to continue these historical discussions.

Now, back to topic. Kurds, Arabs and Assyrians are forming a mutual governed autonomy in Syria Kurdistan. The largest Arab tribes and partys agree with such settlement.

 

[ELTurco]

the Kurds are not native to Syria, Iraq or Turkey.. They are originally from Iran, region of Zagros mountians, they start migration only after 16.century

 

[al-Hasani]

@Bahoz

LOL, that is because you have been out-schooled by me in this discussion and proven wrong many times over. Not my fault.

Pan-Arab. Ok. I am not a pan-Arab but I can't hide the fact that I want a prosperous Arab world that works together rather than fights. I am not a pan-Arab in terms of politics though. If I was that you would see me supporting Al-Asshead like Syrian Lion does who is a open Pan-Arab.

Or Ghaddafi.

Yeah, of course history is not important for you Kurds. Otherwise how could you lay claim to all those ancient areas that you are not native to such as Northern Syria, Northern Iraq etc.
So it is better to make false claims and say that Arabs are not native despite the opposite being the case and that being very much a stupid claim.

Or saying that no Arabs lived prior to 1972 in Northern Syria (JUST LOL).

Anyway not expecting anything from you in that regard. You are two-faced individual.

Just in this discussion who have made several false claims left and right, back-tracked a few times and you claimed initially that you were not in favor of dividing the Middle East further but a few posts after you claimed that "you of course support Kurdistan". Contradictory much ah?

So no wonder that you make contradictory claims, invent things, say people have written claim x or y, when they have not etc.

My discussion with you regarding this topic has ended here. I provided all the sources and history cannot change.

 

[Bahoz]

Al Hasani, you are playing with my words. You said there can be no Kurdish autonomy since Kurds only make up the majority in Hassaka. Which I proved false by showing you maps that Kurds form majority in Efrin, Kobane, Qamishlo, Hasaka and Ras al Ayn. That is 80% of the northern border.

Then you started with your whole Arab thing. To which I replied that the majority of Arabs living in Northern Syria were resettled there from 1972 and onwards by Hafez.

As I already told you to begin with, I am not trying to win the historic contest here. I am disproving your point that Kurds do not make the majority in North, WHICH THEY DO.