MMRCA ....what's your choice????

[Lord Of Gondor]

am up for gripen NG!!!why ? ?why because i want sum sasta,sundar,tikau thing .. Nothing fancy and it'll be great to fly in duet with LCA MK2...

We are Indians so,the first thing that we'll ask the manufacturers is "mileage kitna?"lol

 

[SpArK]

1. Radar of EF will be "Fully operational" by 2015.(From Your Source) . So when you say "ready" in the following statement of yours do you mean "Fully operational"?

If yes, then even Rafale radar is not ready (fully operational)!
source


2. Also the new radar on the typhoon is the next step after CAESAR the earlier AESA experiment with major changes like swashplate design,higher TR modules, better algos for ground attack.



Will post a reply to that in few hours, gotta answer the RCS point from benny first!

It doesnt have an AESA as of now and a deal was only made recently..and its "expected" to be operational in 3 years..

SELEX Galileo awarded a £19M contract from the UK MoD for an AESA Technology Demonstrator Programme | Shephard Group

Come on dont say its superior to what Rafale "has" now..

What are u ?? Nostradamus???

 

[ganimi kawa]

Bro Ganimi Kawa -

I would always prefer to leave the technical aspect out of the selection behind MRCA winners, coz it was never abt technical aspect, like IAF said its not a tick box evaluation.

This is nostly a political decision, and its right this way as we need to know who offers what at what price and what value it adds at the same price to our defence industry and SMEs associated to it.

A simple example, IN couldd have gone for Zhuk AESA when they selected Mig-29, but they didnt. They rather prefered MESA. So I think EFs AESA being better than Rafale AESA is not actually a strong point and no case for a base line comparision...

Bro Dash,

I'm just countering some claims made by Benny in mentioning advantages of rafale. I think that these claims are wrong and should be discussed. (Like the AESA or the RCS claim!)

Nowhere have I said that we should choose EFT for AESA only, please do not harbor that wrong notion.

Technical discussion is always good on a defence forum, even though it may be a bit irrelevant these days.


Anyway, about the RCS I'd like to know Benny's sources which say that they are equal. Do not obfuscate the matter by mentioning situational awareness, cause then the comparison will also arise about AESA of EF and Rafale and about SPECTRA and Pretorian.(Which BTW is a huge topic worthy of a differant thread!)

This is what he said,

Lower RCS than EF

And I say that it is wrong! Let us stick to the point and defend it!

About political dimension of the problem EFT too has its strong points just like the rafale!

@ Sancho bhai,

Will you please provide a link for your claim about officail price? Sorry for the trouble.


@ Benny , please cut down on sarcasm, a little bit is good, too much breeds bitterness!

Please check out the CAESAR programme.

Pictures: EADS flies first Eurofighter with upgraded AESA radar In 2007.

I'm not nostrademus, just someone who knows a little bot about radars. Please tell me the future plans for RBE2.

 

[Dash]

Nowhere have I said that we should choose EFT for AESA only, please do not harbor that wrong notion.

No you didnt say that, but i was giving an example, a more of pointing to a direction as to where we are heading by comparin technically.

About political dimension of the problem EFT too has its strong points just like the rafale!

Sure it has, but compared to Rafale it is better I am ddoubt ful. tell me what you feel abt it and I will put my points accross.

 

[SpArK]

@ganimi kawa

The future plans for fighter includes a more thrust Snecma Eco engine.

Already SPECTRA is integrated which is proving to be a game changer.It actually reduces RCS too
Thales Spectra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also Elix-IR, the next generation threat warning system.

Not to forget the french has agreed to integrate Kaveri_snecma into Rafale when its ready.

Also enhanced XF version of its Damocles targeting pod

also the AESA radar u have pointed out is a "protoype"..

Not 1 EF fighter is flying with any AESA ..

 

[ganimi kawa]

No you didnt say that, but i was giving an example, a more of pointing to a direction as to where we are heading by comparin technically.

Fair enough! Political angle too should have it's place in the discussion.

Sure it has, but compared to Rafale it is better I am ddoubt ful. tell me what you feel abt it and I will put my points accross.

I'd love to but right now too many things on my platter ( as the soul attorney for EFT). Have the answer for the price issue post by Sancho ready and will post it asa he provides a link to his data.

Meanwhile, any of those 26 who voted for the EF are welcome to put their views on political front.

IMHO, SH leads on this issue with a hazy draw between EF and Rafale.

 

[GORKHALI]

nice to see representatives from Dassault rafale and EUROFIGHTER DOG FIGHTING

 

[SpArK]

nice to see representatives from Dassault rafale and EUROFIGHTER DOG FIGHTING

Dont worry we have EF in sight

Aviation Photo: Eurofighter Typhoon at the sight of a Rafale | Patrick's Aviation

 

[sathya]

i am vote for EFT or GRIPEN

 

[GORKHALI]

Dont worry we have EF in sight

Aviation Photo: Eurofighter Typhoon at the sight of a Rafale | Patrick's Aviation

hahaha GOI not going to select just by mere superior product but also geopolitical edge . And this add a much T/W to european fighter even more than F/A 18 and rafale..India wants to play its game in this way only and when you going to have 4european countries in pocket ,what else you need ? Ok rafale is good but still they not looking very joshilay like US,GRIPEN and EF,look at the way they catching eyes with daily media report but where is Rafale ??seems like they already know that they are out of competition and better focus on Brazil for mere 36units and maybe france going to be bit upset but hey this is not end of road rite ? GOI TO KAAMDENU GAYE HAI SABKO KHUSH KAREGI BY GIVING FRENCH 10BILLION DOLLAR SUBS DEAL AND 40 nos SCF contract ... .

 

[Dash]

Fair enough! Political angle too should have it's place in the discussion.





I'd love to but right now too many things on my platter ( as the soul attorney for EFT). Have the answer for the price issue post by Sancho ready and will post it asa he provides a link to his data.

Meanwhile, any of those 26 who voted for the EF are welcome to put their views on political front.

IMHO, SH leads on this issue with a hazy draw between EF and Rafale.

Yes, I understand......that why I didnt post my views, but you finish your plate, mine can wait

 

[sancho]

@ Sancho bhai,

Will you please provide a link for your claim about officail price? Sorry for the trouble.

Sure, I posted it in my Rafale vs F18SH comparison before, it's from the FAB (Brazilian Air Force) technical evaluation report:

The report shows the FAB positive and negative points of each plane using a color code (blue, yellow and red) instead of notes. Of the three, the French jet features the most comprehensive technology package and the Swede appears at first glance, like the best price. Your unit value without the stimulus of armaments and maintenance costs, is U.S. $ 50 million...

...Nevertheless, the American fighter is offered today at a stable price of $ 55 million. In the case of the Rafale, to be fully operational, it took 7.5 billion euros (U.S. $ 10.9 billion), a difference of 50% over the initial estimate. Price per unit without arms and support was 94 million euros ($ 136 million) when it began to be sold, but then fell to 54 million euros ($ 78 million). This is the value offered to Brazil in the latest proposal by Dassault and even practiced with the French government.

Original source:

ISTOÉ Independente - Economia & Negócios

 

[ganimi kawa]

also the AESA radar u have pointed out is a "protoype"..

Yup! It was a prototype which validated key techs for AESA and based on that plans were drawn for the evolved radar with some new techs like swashplate. That will be ready by 2015 just in time for MMRCA delivery.

Even CAESAR specs were impressive.

Not 1 EF fighter is flying with any AESA ..

Nope! There was at least one!

source

In the frame of different European activities towards E-Scan Radar the CAESAR (CAPTOR AESA Radar) demonstrator has successfully proven the capabilities of electronic beam steering during two flight trials campaigns, one on a BAC 1-11 test aircraft and one on the final Eurofighter platform.

Source

The Euroradar Caesar active electronically scanned array (AESA) variant of the Captor radar system has completed a flight test program in the Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft.

@ Dash,
Roger that!

 

[Mirza Jatt]

Lol...i knew the thread would turn into another MRCA thread..

anyways, why does the debate stop at the radar and RCS ?? even if it does,in no way one the rafale can be called better than EF in both these dept....when we know EF will have an AESA radar by 2015....what remains to argue on that ?? we arent receiving the MRCA anytime before 2015.

 

[Mirza Jatt]

now some treat for the eyes..........I am talking about EF's latest technology Helmet Mounted Symbology System and not the babe sitting in it...BTW both are hot.