MMRCA ....what's your choice????

[MST]

No Vote For MIG 35

What about your vote buddy

 

[rockstarIN]

I will support Rafele if

1. Gives us full TOT(no compromise, even source codes of AESA radars.)

2. Lesser priced than EF.

3. Continue to support India as they supported in 1998 (nuclear blasts)

4. Stop selling Pakistan top notch sub marines(No offense Pak bros)

5. Technical help for Kaveri engine.

6. Full support with critical technologies for AMCA 5th Gen. fighter (Even co production)

7. Last, but not the least, slash the rate of Mirage upgrade cost by half. This is the most important and irritating point to me.

Rgds,

 

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

No Vote For MIG 35

My vote for Mig-35 The Beast...

 

[INDIAN007]

What about your vote buddy

My Vote Goes To Typhoon , Although We should also go for some RAFALE

126 TYPHOON

74 Rafale

 

[gowthamraj]

My vote is for

 

[Bang Galore]

My vote for Mig-35 The Beast...

Wasted vote. Zero chance of that happening.

My vote is for

Expensive aircraft, expensive missiles! Upgrades will be slow to come by & needless to mention - Expensive!

 

[sancho]

I'm a bit doubtful about that!

9 billion euro contract for 112 Eurofighter Typhoons signed

France Cuts Rafale Price To Win Brazil Deal, saying 36 rafales for 6.2 billion $.

Hence, EFT is 106 million dollar/ piece.

Rafale is 172 million dollar/ piece.

Hi, I'm not joining into discussions here, just some corrections, the source for the Brazilian competition even says:

The total deal is worth $10.2 billion, including $6.2 billion for the fighters themselves - down from a previous figure of $8.2 billion - and $4 billion for maintenance over the next three decades, the daily said.

Which means $283.3 million system price for each Rafale, the $6.2 billions are the fly away cost, without weapons, spares, training and so on.
For F18SH and Gripen E/F it says:

The Boeing package was valued at $7.6 billion and the Saab offer at $6 billion, according to the newspaper.

So $211.1 million systemprice each SH and $166.6 each Gripen.

So if you compare these sources and translate them as the costs in MMRCA, the EF would turn out to be the cheapest and I guess we all know that this is not the case right?


When it comes to costs, you always have to differentiate 3 things:

1. The costs for the developing country, or the partners are different to costs for normal export customers, because costs for R&D are not included!

2. The price depends on the numbers a customer wants to procure!

3. Is the source talking about system, or fly away costs?


Official sources of the Brazilian MoD has quoted fly away costs for all the final contenders as:

$79 million for Rafale
$55 million for F18SH
$50 million for Gripen E/F

If we take the this price and add the $4 billions for weapon, spares and training (if that is the real price), the whole Rafale deal costs $6.84 billions for Brazil.

Regards, Sancho

 

[SpArK]

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[SEAL]

Mig-35 or Gripen..

 

[GORKHALI]

am up for gripen NG!!!why ? ?why because i want sum sasta,sundar,tikau thing .. Nothing fancy and it'll be great to fly in duet with LCA MK2...

 

[GORKHALI]

why we need rafale or eurofighter when this going to be outdated after 10years from now. Better we save some money and invest it in our indigenious AMCA and Buy more 100million dollar FGFA..

 

[ganimi kawa]

RADAR of EF will be ready only by 2015..

Read this and the comments too.. will get an idea of superiority

Livefist - Indian Defence & Aerospace: UPDATE: Eurofighter AESA Radar Full-Op By 2015

1. Radar of EF will be "Fully operational" by 2015.(From Your Source) . So when you say "ready" in the following statement of yours do you mean "Fully operational"?

AESA of EF is not at all ready while Rafael has it ready.

If yes, then even Rafale radar is not ready (fully operational)!
source

A preproduction batch of three AESA radars have flown on the Falcon, Mirage 2000 and Rafale.

The tranche-four Rafales will operate at the F3 standard and the first AESA-equipped squadron is expected to be operational in 2012.

2. Also the new radar on the typhoon is the next step after CAESAR the earlier AESA experiment with major changes like swashplate design,higher TR modules, better algos for ground attack.

What is the next step for the french RBE2? at least nothing until 2014!


3. About the link you provided, I have read the entire article from the EFT magazine itself. And it gives a wonderful explanation of what I mean when I say that the new EFT radar is better than RBE2.

4. I've read the comments too and there was nothing important in them proving any deficiency in the new radar. There was an outrageous claim that this radar is nothing but an ES-05 Raven of grippen NG, which was ably countered by another poster in the same comments section.

"ES-05 Raven with a few tweaks"

A few tweaks?!

How about a 50&#37; bigger antenna, a completely diferent backend and a diferent mechanical repositioner?

P.S. To all those EF supporters, please participate in the discussion more actively like the rafale guys do! At least thank the posts from your side, asar padta hai!

Sancho bhai,

Will post a reply to that in few hours, gotta answer the RCS point from benny first!

 

[Dash]

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[ganimi kawa]

<-----

That was indeed funny!

 

[Dash]

1. Radar of EF will be "Fully operational" by 2015.(From Your Source) . So when you say "ready" in the following statement of yours do you mean "Fully operational"?

If yes, then even Rafale radar is not ready (fully operational)!
source


2. Also the new radar on the typhoon is the next step after CAESAR the earlier AESA experiment with major changes like swashplate design,higher TR modules, better algos for ground attack.

What is the next step for the french RBE2? at least nothing until 2014!


3. About the link you provided, I have read the entire article from the EFT magazine itself. And it gives a wonderful explanation of what I mean when I say that the new EFT radar is better than RBE2.

4. I've read the comments too and there was nothing important in them proving any deficiency in the new radar. There was an outrageous claim that this radar is nothing but an ES-05 Raven of grippen NG, which was ably countered by another poster in the same comments section.



P.S. To all those EF supporters, please participate in the discussion more actively like the rafale guys do! At least thank the posts from your side, asar padta hai!

Sancho bhai,

Will post a reply to that in few hours, gotta answer the RCS point from benny first!

Bro Ganimi Kawa -

I would always prefer to leave the technical aspect out of the selection behind MRCA winners, coz it was never abt technical aspect, like IAF said its not a tick box evaluation.

This is nostly a political decision, and its right this way as we need to know who offers what at what price and what value it adds at the same price to our defence industry and SMEs associated to it.

A simple example, IN couldd have gone for Zhuk AESA when they selected Mig-29, but they didnt. They rather prefered MESA. So I think EFs AESA being better than Rafale AESA is not actually a strong point and no case for a base line comparision...

But I am not stopping you from comparing it as it also helps thee forum understand some tech aspect and you add value to it.

However I have always debated that MRCA will have a political affinity than a technical one.