MiG-29K planes face operation deficiencies: CAG

[Joe Shearer]

If you like this logic, you can make all kinds of ridiculous claims based on it. For example, the probability of China doing (beling) <blank> is high because of the lack of free press (or, non-transparent structure, whatever you prefer). Fill whatever you like in the blank.

As non-transparent structure in Chinese military, well, Chinese faithfully follow the instructions from SunZi's "The Art of War". It is not only recommended but also a necessity for underdogs. China is clearly an underdog.

Not so, according to the posts of some other members.

 

[nang2]

Not so, according to the posts of some other members.

They don't matter. Chinese generals and strategy planners are those who matter.

 

[Joe Shearer]

They don't matter. Chinese generals and strategy planners are those who matter.

I am relieved to hear that. It seemed at times that the entire Military Commission were posting on PDF.

 

[ashok321]

Rafale-M naval variant costs 110 million = 3 times that of Mig 29K

So of course price matters.

Sony TV is always expensive than Videocon.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Lesson For Pakistani fanboys Who dreaming Su-35 .Russian Tech comes With huge Serviceability Issues
And you Need Huge Budget Like IAF or PLA to bear That Cost

malaysia and algeria operate similar birds to india and they dont complain

New Delhi: India's mainstream naval fighter jet plane MiG-29K faces operational deficiencies due to defects in engines, airframe and fly-by-wire system leading to very low availability, top government auditor has said even as it slammed the delay in construction of the indigenous aircraft carrier.
The aircraft were being technically accepted despite having discrepancies/anomalies, the Comptroller and Auditor General of India said in its report tabled in Parliament on Tuesday.
"The MiG-29K, which is a carrier-borne multi-role aircraft and the mainstay of integral fleet air defence, is riddled with problems relating to airframe, RD MK-33 engine and fly-by-wire system," it said.


Serviceability of the warplanes was low, ranging from 15.93 per cent to 37.63 per cent and that of MiG-29KUB ranging from 21.30 per cent to 47.14 per cent.

Serviceability refers to the total number aircraft available for operation at a time from the overall capacity.

The CAG said the augmentation of infrastructure at Visakhapatnam was still at the Detailed Project Report stage even six years after approval in December 2009.

The Full Mission Simulator was assessed to be unsuitable for Carrier Qualification (CQ) simulator training for pilots, as the visuals did not support the profile, it said.

The auditor noted that the service life of the aircraft is 6000 hours or 25 years (whichever is earlier) and with issues facing the MiG-29K/KUB, the operational life of the aircraft already delivered would be reduced.

"Further, the deliveries of the aircraft under the Option Clause scheduled between 2012 and 2016 are much ahead of the delivery schedule of the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC) in 2023, as projected by Cochin Shipyard Limited," the report said.

As per the Option Clause contract (March 2010), in case the customer's representatives have any observations during the aircraft technical acceptance, these shall be eliminated by the supplier's representative before the Technical Acceptance Report (TAR) is signed.

"As of November 2015, ten aircraft had been technically accepted. Audit observed discrepancies/anomalies on the first MiG-29K/KUB of the Main Contract technically accepted in February 2010, continued to persist on six aircraft acquired under the Option Clause," it said.

It said that even as the IAC continues to be constructed in Cochin Shipyard Limited and the fact that INS Viraat is expected to be decommissioned in 2016-17, Indian Navy's operational readiness and maritime capability will be affected due to the availability of only one aircraft carrier, INS Vikramaditya till delivery of the IAC.

PTI

First Published: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 - 19:26
http://zeenews.india.com/news/india/mig-29k-planes-face-operation-deficiencies-cag_1911820.html

since only india and russia opperate the mig-29k i say lets here the russain side, lets see if they have problems similar to what india is facing.
@vostok
@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy @Stephen Cohen what about the mig-29's operated by the iaf? whats their avalibility rate and can you show some officail proof please.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

malaysia and algeria operate similar birds to india and they dont complain


since only india and russia opperate the mig-29k i say lets here the russain side, lets see if they have problems similar to what india is facing.
@vostok
@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy @Stephen Cohen what about the mig-29's operated by the iaf? whats their avalibility rate and can you show some officail proof please.

IAF Mig 29s have an availability rate of above 75 percent

 

[Blue Marlin]

IAF Mig 29s have an availability rate of above 75 percent

got something officail to proof it, its not that i dont trust you, but its for peace of mind that what im being told is true

 

[Stephen Cohen]

got something officail to proof it, its not that i dont trust you, but its for peace of mind that what im being told is true

I read it but that link is not working now

I wanted to post the source but am unable to do so

 

[Blue Marlin]

I read it but that link is not working now

I wanted to post the source but am unable to do so

what about screen shots?

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@Blue Marlin

The original link is not working but the same news was copied by other sites
Here it is

India Ordering, Modernizing SU-30MKIs
2014-03-20 10:51 Author： Source:defenseindustrydaily


India’s Sunday Guardian obtains letters and other documents sent by HAL to its Russian counterparts, pointing to serious maintenance problems with India’s SU-30MKI fleet. Compared with India’s older Mirage 2000 and MiG-29 fleets, whose readiness rates hover near 75%, fully 50% of the SU-30MKIs are considered unfit for operational flying. That’s a strategic-class issue for a country like India, and may provide the missing explanation for reports that India could abandon the joint FGFA/SU-50 5th generation fighter program in order to pay for French Rafale jets.



This isn’t the first time such issues have arisen (q.v. Dec 16/11), and the Russians have general reputation for these kinds of problems. One February 2014 letter from HAL’s Nasik plant reminds the Russians that they’ve been pursuing a critical issue since March 2013, with no reply:



“…multiple cases of repeated failure of Mission Computer-1 and blanking out of Head Up Displays (HUD) and all Multi-Function Displays (MFD) in flight… As the displays blanking off is a serious and critical issue affecting the exploitation of aircraft (it) needs corrective action/remedial measures on priority…”



From a Dec 24/13 letter:



“Due to non-availability of facilities for overhaul of aggregates [aircraft parts], the serviceability of Su-30MKI is slowly decreasing and demand for Aircraft on Ground (AOG) items on the rise…. Huge quantities of unserviceable aggregates [parts] are lying due for overhaul at various bases of IAF…. It appears that Rosboronexport and Irkut Corporation have limited control over other Russian companies [which provide vital parts like engines].”



One reason the MiG-29 fleet is doing better is that India has worked to build infrastructure like localRD-33 engine plants, bypassing the Russians entirely. Russian firms were supposed to set up a SU-30MKI repair-overhaul facility at HAL by December 2013, but that has fallen into a black hole, and so has the posting of aircraft specialists. India itself is often at fault in these scenarios, and indeed they’re reportedly haggling over price – but the specialist support contract reportedly states that they’re to be posted even if price negotiations aren’t finalized. India’s core defense posture demands that they resolve these issues, one way or another. Sources: India’s Sunday Guardian, “Russians go slow, Sukhoi fleet in trouble”.

http://www.cannews.com.cn/2014/0320/83197.shtml

 

[John Reese]

malaysia and algeria operate similar birds to india and they dont complain

What Is there Availability rate Please quote they Operate A vary Limited rate Malaysia has 18 Su-30MKMs in service
China operates 76 Su-30MKK and 24 Su-30MK2

So IAF is Biggest Producer of Su-30 india Will Produce over 300+ MKI's by 2020 or beyond
at Present we have 242 in our Inventory

Recently this year A Vietnam People’s Air Force’s Su-30MK2 has gone down during a trial flight.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/vietnamese-su-30-crashes-two-pilots-missing/

@Blue Marlin

The original link is not working but the same news was copied by other sites
Here it is

India Ordering, Modernizing SU-30MKIs
2014-03-20 10:51 Author： Source:defenseindustrydaily


India’s Sunday Guardian obtains letters and other documents sent by HAL to its Russian counterparts, pointing to serious maintenance problems with India’s SU-30MKI fleet. Compared with India’s older Mirage 2000 and MiG-29 fleets, whose readiness rates hover near 75%, fully 50% of the SU-30MKIs are considered unfit for operational flying. That’s a strategic-class issue for a country like India, and may provide the missing explanation for reports that India could abandon the joint FGFA/SU-50 5th generation fighter program in order to pay for French Rafale jets.



This isn’t the first time such issues have arisen (q.v. Dec 16/11), and the Russians have general reputation for these kinds of problems. One February 2014 letter from HAL’s Nasik plant reminds the Russians that they’ve been pursuing a critical issue since March 2013, with no reply:



“…multiple cases of repeated failure of Mission Computer-1 and blanking out of Head Up Displays (HUD) and all Multi-Function Displays (MFD) in flight… As the displays blanking off is a serious and critical issue affecting the exploitation of aircraft (it) needs corrective action/remedial measures on priority…”



From a Dec 24/13 letter:



“Due to non-availability of facilities for overhaul of aggregates [aircraft parts], the serviceability of Su-30MKI is slowly decreasing and demand for Aircraft on Ground (AOG) items on the rise…. Huge quantities of unserviceable aggregates [parts] are lying due for overhaul at various bases of IAF…. It appears that Rosboronexport and Irkut Corporation have limited control over other Russian companies [which provide vital parts like engines].”



One reason the MiG-29 fleet is doing better is that India has worked to build infrastructure like localRD-33 engine plants, bypassing the Russians entirely. Russian firms were supposed to set up a SU-30MKI repair-overhaul facility at HAL by December 2013, but that has fallen into a black hole, and so has the posting of aircraft specialists. India itself is often at fault in these scenarios, and indeed they’re reportedly haggling over price – but the specialist support contract reportedly states that they’re to be posted even if price negotiations aren’t finalized. India’s core defense posture demands that they resolve these issues, one way or another. Sources: India’s Sunday Guardian, “Russians go slow, Sukhoi fleet in trouble”.

http://www.cannews.com.cn/2014/0320/83197.shtml

New Mig-29 K/KUb has Engine Problem & design Flaws i think That's why we rejected Mig-35
Although Availability Rate Increasing Years but Its not Sufficient

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@Blue Marlin

Another link that is working

http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/russians-go-slow-sukhoi-fleet-in-trouble

Figures reveal how serious the problem of availability of the IAF's Su-30MKI fleet is. Against the Sukhoi figure of just 50% aircraft fit for operational flying, statistics reveal just how much ground is to be covered.

The availability rates of the IAF's French-origin Mirage-2000 and even the Russian-origin MiG-29 is about 75%.

As India quibbles with Russia over maintenance arrangements, the larger question is: What good is a weapon if it cannot be used?

 

[Blue Marlin]

What Is there Availability rate Please quote they Operate A vary Limited rate Malaysia has 18 Su-30MKMs in service
China operates 76 Su-30MKK and 24 Su-30MK2

So IAF is Biggest Producer of Su-30 india Will Produce over 300+ MKI's by 2020 or beyond
at Present we have 242 in our Inventory

Recently Latest A Vietnam People’s Air Force’s Su-30MK2 has gone down during a trial flight.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/vietnamese-su-30-crashes-two-pilots-missing/

i said you never hear them complain, i never said they had higher avalibility rates than india. malaysia does have the best part of all of them ready, minus those used for conversions. in the $900 million contract it includes maintainance as the plane cost $37.5 million and $12.5 for a set period.

 

[John Reese]

i said you never hear them complain, i never said they had higher avalibility rates than india. malaysia does have the best part of all of them ready, minus those used for conversions. in the $900 million contract it includes maintainance as the plane cost $37.5 million and $12.5 for a set period.

Really Mig-29K is off self Purchase included with russian Aircraft carrier OEM is RAC.India not Even Overhauled Single air craft There concern are Discussed With russians Well We Just Received 33 out 45 Mig-29K
CAG Report Suggested that Serviceability Risen over the years From 2009 To 2014 Which Significant improvement

Since report is Latest figure is Unknown

HAL Has Operated and overhauled Both Russian & Foreign aircraft
Still has better Serviceability Rate Than OEM

 

[Blue Marlin]

@Blue Marlin

The original link is not working but the same news was copied by other sites
Here it is

India Ordering, Modernizing SU-30MKIs
2014-03-20 10:51 Author： Source:defenseindustrydaily


India’s Sunday Guardian obtains letters and other documents sent by HAL to its Russian counterparts, pointing to serious maintenance problems with India’s SU-30MKI fleet. Compared with India’s older Mirage 2000 and MiG-29 fleets, whose readiness rates hover near 75%, fully 50% of the SU-30MKIs are considered unfit for operational flying. That’s a strategic-class issue for a country like India, and may provide the missing explanation for reports that India could abandon the joint FGFA/SU-50 5th generation fighter program in order to pay for French Rafale jets.



This isn’t the first time such issues have arisen (q.v. Dec 16/11), and the Russians have general reputation for these kinds of problems. One February 2014 letter from HAL’s Nasik plant reminds the Russians that they’ve been pursuing a critical issue since March 2013, with no reply:



“…multiple cases of repeated failure of Mission Computer-1 and blanking out of Head Up Displays (HUD) and all Multi-Function Displays (MFD) in flight… As the displays blanking off is a serious and critical issue affecting the exploitation of aircraft (it) needs corrective action/remedial measures on priority…”



From a Dec 24/13 letter:



“Due to non-availability of facilities for overhaul of aggregates [aircraft parts], the serviceability of Su-30MKI is slowly decreasing and demand for Aircraft on Ground (AOG) items on the rise…. Huge quantities of unserviceable aggregates [parts] are lying due for overhaul at various bases of IAF…. It appears that Rosboronexport and Irkut Corporation have limited control over other Russian companies [which provide vital parts like engines].”



One reason the MiG-29 fleet is doing better is that India has worked to build infrastructure like localRD-33 engine plants, bypassing the Russians entirely. Russian firms were supposed to set up a SU-30MKI repair-overhaul facility at HAL by December 2013, but that has fallen into a black hole, and so has the posting of aircraft specialists. India itself is often at fault in these scenarios, and indeed they’re reportedly haggling over price – but the specialist support contract reportedly states that they’re to be posted even if price negotiations aren’t finalized. India’s core defense posture demands that they resolve these issues, one way or another. Sources: India’s Sunday Guardian, “Russians go slow, Sukhoi fleet in trouble”.

http://www.cannews.com.cn/2014/0320/83197.shtml

after reading the entire article the part i wanted was at the bottom

Your Analogy is flawed Check the
Eurofighter and Tornado - less than 50%
https://warisboring.com/germany-s-air-force-is-falling-apart-d06236a1de7d

That Because your CCP Govt Regime Non-Transparent Structure are And Blocked asses to Actual Cost assessment

Here how Non Transparent Regime Works

USAF Serviceability History Till Present


By Miguel Vasconcelos, United States Department of Transportation, Federal Aviation Administration

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=LyBQBwAAQBAJ&pg=SA2-PA45&lpg=SA2-PA45&dq=f-16+serviceability+usaf&source=bl&ots=5S1F15F1OF&sig=VVW7CBeiS_HKHLqNhhB1eqmS1dU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjdoOmax5HOAhUKMI8KHZ8OD9AQ6AEINTAF#v=onepage&q=f-16 serviceability usaf&f=false

if the mig 29 and the 29k share the same engine and core components then dont this help improve reduce aog. yes i know the naval rd-33 have more power but that does not change anything.