JF-17 trumps the Viper in certain domains

[CriticalThought]

More accurately the don’t have the proper type of refueling apparatus (boom apparatus v the probe and drouge of our tankers).

Uncle Sam only allows certain refuelling aircraft. Pakistan isn't allowed to tack the proper apparatus on any old tanker otherwise we would already have one.

Dear bro the black smoke is an indication of inefficiency but only of the combustor design. It shows that the burn time is small. That mean the vortex generated by the cold air or oxygen isn't sufficient to keep the fuel in the chamber burning. Also in certain scenarios like with the early f4 engines the aircraft position was given away by the smoke. The jf17 only emits smoke during power surge and only for a very short time. Its better not to have that but with a TW ratio of 1:1.1 is a good reliable engine that performs well a d we are not subject to American or western sanctions. So why do we need to change the engine as everyone keeps saying. I haven't gotten a single answer that justifies the change. It seems even here people are Toyota corolla is a must because everyone else has it. So one person says engine no good. All say engine no good.

As the RD-93 moves from low to high power, it is unable to efficiently burn the fuel, hence taking precious time to gain the required thrust. This is a side effect from inefficient combustor design, and also why Viper wil beat Thunder in maneuvers requiring quick changes of speed.

 

[Trango Towers]

Uncle Sam only allows certain refuelling aircraft. Pakistan isn't allowed to tack the proper apparatus on any old tanker otherwise we would already have one.



As the RD-93 moves from low to high power, it is unable to efficiently burn the fuel, hence taking precious time to gain the required thrust. This is a side effect from inefficient combustor design, and also why Viper wil beat Thunder in maneuvers requiring quick changes of speed.

This is not difficult to overcome. Problem Pakistan will have in terms of combustor design isn't the inlet airhole positioning to generate the vortex that extends the lean burn time but the materials for the combustor itself. Temp get as high as 1500 degrees in there. That requires material designers of the highest calibre. I hated material in my engineering degree along with thermodynamics lol. Both essential for combustor chamber design. Won't tell you what I ended up doing after graduation loooool
With regards to turn rate and dogfight that would have a significant impact in a close quarter battle. In modern combat PAF trains hard for this scenario and actively lures the enemy in for this type of engagement. The enemy on the other hand generally relies on BVR. So that still give us the advantage as to choosing when to deploy the extra trust. Those fractions of a second will be negligible due to you picking the time for that fight. Hope that makes sense

 

[CriticalThought]

This is not difficult to overcome. Problem Pakistan will have in terms of combustor design isn't the inlet airhole positioning to generate the vortex that extends the lean burn time but the materials for the combustor itself. Temp get as high as 1500 degrees in there. That requires material designers of the highest calibre. I hated material in my engineering degree along with thermodynamics lol. Both essential for combustor chamber design. Won't tell you what I ended up doing after graduation loooool
With regards to turn rate and dogfight that would have a significant impact in a close quarter battle. In modern combat PAF trains hard for this scenario and actively lures the enemy in for this type of engagement. The enemy on the other hand generally relies on BVR. So that still give us the advantage as to choosing when to deploy the extra trust. Those fractions of a second will be negligible due to you picking the time for that fight. Hope that makes sense

Inefficient combustion is the result of many interacting characteristics. Materials is just one of them, there is also geometry, and the engine control. In the Thunder's case, the last one is DEC, a technology from the 1970s.

There is only one assumption you can make about the enemy: he will be as well trained as us, or better. Anything less is a recipe for failure.

 

[Trango Towers]

Inefficient combustion is the result of many interacting characteristics. Materials is just one of them, there is also geometry, and the engine control. In the Thunder's case, the last one is DEC, a technology from the 1970s.

There is only one assumption you can make about the enemy: he will be as well trained as us, or better. Anything less is a recipe for failure.

Too many scenarios and too little time. On more factor in our favour is that paf has the highest rejection rate with the brightest minds applying. India on the other hand cannot say that

 

[Raider 21]

Inefficient combustion is the result of many interacting characteristics. Materials is just one of them, there is also geometry, and the engine control. In the Thunder's case, the last one is DEC, a technology from the 1970s.

There is only one assumption you can make about the enemy: he will be as well trained as us, or better. Anything less is a recipe for failure.

DEC may not on be par on FADEC level with the integration between throttle position, throttle control and engine thrust. Metallurgy is a major one, geometry can be adjusted during conceptual and trade studies during further improvements to the design.....overall there is more room for improvement.

 

[CriticalThought]

Too many scenarios and too little time. On more factor in our favour is that paf has the highest rejection rate with the brightest minds applying. India on the other hand cannot say that

Never underestimate the enemy.

 

[Trango Towers]

Never underestimate the enemy.

Totally agree

 

[sparten]

There is only one assumption you can make about the enemy: he will be as well trained as us, or better. Anything less is a recipe for failure.

You can observe enemy training and read his doctrine and learn about his equipment vide intel.

Using they you can make a hypothesis as to his likely actions. That’s what PAF has done. And will continue to do. And yes the reverse is also true.

 

[seesonic]

To take into account, it is needed to be kept in view that JF-17 came later and PAF use to operate F-16 since long that actually validates that how and why ACM stated as such, knowing the facts and data. He is not the part of marketing team and no person of such level would ever shoot blank. There is a lot to pay attention for the one that knows value as such otherwise today or tomorrow, another operator that may operate thunder can prove it. Such professionals are not kind of attention seekers or need followers but when speaks, it becomes something on record.

To take into account, he is the chef of the airforce and PAF is the primary user of the aircraft.

I mean he cant be telling the world how lousy his arsenal is right. His potential adversary would be laughing his *** off.

 

[Trango Towers]

To take into account, he is the chef of the airforce and PAF is the primary user of the aircraft.

I mean he cant be telling the world how lousy his arsenal is right. His potential adversary would be laughing his *** off.

He also cannot make claims which are incorrect as potential customers will enquire. So your point is not relevant

 

[Windjammer]

To take into account, he is the chef of the airforce and PAF is the primary user of the aircraft.

I mean he cant be telling the world how lousy his arsenal is right. His potential adversary would be laughing his *** off.

Hardly, for the same effort he could have claimed the JF-17 having certain advantages over say MiG-29 or the Mirage-2000 which the adversary operates rather than comparing it with a system operated by the PAF.

 

[Khafee]

Turks, SKor and Egyptians mostly.

Plus buying them on the black market.

No not at all. Pls see below:

after 98 nuclear tests when Pakistan was under US sanctions than How PAF maintained the F-16 Fleet without US cooperation ( spear parts and services ) ?

Israel via Europe

 

[Sucha Kuggu]

obviously, there's a generation gap between them.

 

[Windjammer]

 

[Gurjot.S]

Too many scenarios and too little time. On more factor in our favour is that paf has the highest rejection rate with the brightest minds applying. India on the other hand cannot say that

What makes you think so ?