JF-17 trumps the Viper in certain domains

[Tps43]

Yeah that used to be the case...turns out they're flying a lot these days. Coming back to the point I was making, both A and E models exhibit the same flying characteristics in their respective display profiles.

Zindagi main kabhi F 16 uraya hai kia?

 

[Khafee]

Zindagi main kabhi F 16 uraya hai kia?

Yeah this one

btw Check out the afterburner

 

[Mentee]

Yeah this one

View attachment 439446

btw Check out the afterburner

the afterburner resmbles a shurli in its initial lift off stage @tps77

 

[alphaxyz]

Wow, I had no idea PAF F 16s dont have refueling capability. Also it seems to be handicapped to a degree to be the tip of qualitative sword of PAF. JF 17 thunder seems capable enough to take that spot now.

 

[Raider 21]

Oh boy!

I was being sarcastic boss...

I thought the 'E' model has a much more powerful engine compared to the 'A'.

You thought correctly.....the A model is a lighter aircraft, the E model is considerably heavier.....makes it harder to land on shorter runways (a Block 60 driver overshot the runway after touchdown at Italy a few years ago). Yet they both fly well at air displays.

Zindagi main kabhi F 16 uraya hai kia?

35 hours....Block 40s as a junior flight test engineer. Very fortunate for the opportunity....

 

[CriticalThought]

So why is everyone going on about replacing the engine?

An oft ignored but key aspect of jet engines is their ability to quickly and nimbly change between any power levels, the extreme being very low to very high. The black smoke you see on the Thunder is a little indication of inefficiency as the engine shifts power levels too quickly. The Viper engine on the other hand, is a wonder of modern technology and shifts gears like nobody's business.

Wow, I had no idea PAF F 16s dont have refueling capability. Also it seems to be handicapped to a degree to be the tip of qualitative sword of PAF. JF 17 thunder seems capable enough to take that spot now.

They have refueling what they don't have is a refueling aircraft.

 

[blain2]

yes you are correct it went up. then it is Pakistani pilots.

It has to do with the demonstration routine being flown. Any of the 3 aircraft have the ability to go vertical after a high alpha pass.

Some people have this idiotic take that JF-17 cannot do well in the vertical plane given its engine does not have enough thrust. There is no truth to it.

Some speculation on what the CAS may have meant include:

1. Integration with weapons that are not or cannot be integrated with the F-16
2. Avionics that differ from the F-16 blocks being flown by Pakistan

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Most likely it is

a) No restrictions on weapons combination
b) A flexibility to mix and match sniper pods
c) Workhorse , role superiors airspace coverage

However it is well understood the importance of having a All weather Fighter Jet , that can log in ample hours. And tremendous flexibility to service

The fact it can occupy the Heavy lifter type role , for various responsibilities makes it greatly attractive option

 

[Ultima Thule]

An oft ignored but key aspect of jet engines is their ability to quickly and nimbly change between any power levels, the extreme being very low to very high. The black smoke you see on the Thunder is a little indication of inefficiency as the engine shifts power levels too quickly. The Viper engine on the other hand, is a wonder of modern technology and shifts gears like nobody's business.



They have refueling what they don't have is a refueling aircraft.

He mean Air to Air refueling capability for our F-16 sir

 

[Trango Towers]

An oft ignored but key aspect of jet engines is their ability to quickly and nimbly change between any power levels, the extreme being very low to very high. The black smoke you see on the Thunder is a little indication of inefficiency as the engine shifts power levels too quickly. The Viper engine on the other hand, is a wonder of modern technology and shifts gears like nobody's business.



They have refueling what they don't have is a refueling aircraft.

Dear bro the black smoke is an indication of inefficiency but only of the combustor design. It shows that the burn time is small. That mean the vortex generated by the cold air or oxygen isn't sufficient to keep the fuel in the chamber burning. Also in certain scenarios like with the early f4 engines the aircraft position was given away by the smoke. The jf17 only emits smoke during power surge and only for a very short time. Its better not to have that but with a TW ratio of 1:1.1 is a good reliable engine that performs well a d we are not subject to American or western sanctions. So why do we need to change the engine as everyone keeps saying. I haven't gotten a single answer that justifies the change. It seems even here people are Toyota corolla is a must because everyone else has it. So one person says engine no good. All say engine no good.

 

[MastanKhan]

Recently in an interview, the PAF Air Chief made some startling disclosures.
In the words of ACM Sohail Aman, JF-17 trumps F-16 Block 52 in three different domains.

''Meanwhile, Aman was keen to say that the JF-17 trumps the F-16 Block 52 in three different domains – although he wouldn’t elaborate on what they were. “Let me keep something to myself,” he smiled.''
http://www.arabianaerospace.aero/dubai-airshow-pakistan-jf-17-returns-to-dubai.html

While some of you called it a marketing ploy while others just put it down to Airchief's sense of humour, however i was dismayed as how the leader of a reputable organisation would openly make such remarks and claims to an International journal without some substance. So making my own enquiries from some well placed sources, i have managed to get the following information which goes to prove that JF-17 indeed betters the F-16 in certain scenarios.

''No doubt the Falcon is superior to the JF, its a bigger aircraft than the JF, more powerful engine, more faster...but as a complete-package, as an all-rounder the Thunder is far better no two views about it''

1. Lower RCS > believe it or not the Thunder is more stealthier than the Falcon

2. SOW / REK > Stand-Off Weapon / Range Extension Kit. The Falcon has the JDAM, but the one on the JF is more superior, lethal and dead-accurate. In fact it goes even further than the JDAM which gives a huge offensive punch and is all the more remarkable considering the fact that the payload / warhead was developed indigenously by our own software engineers and technicians.

3. Faster turnaround - believe it or not, the Thunder can be prepared in shorter duration of time for its next mission after landing. Rumor has it 45mins (same time as a Typhoon) which includes refuelling, re-arming and doing all the other ground checks.

@Hodor @MastanKhan @Oscar @Tempest II @Knuckles @araz @Irfan Baloch

Hi,

The Air Chief does have the right to brag about some capabilities of the JF17---.

On a side by side comparison---who would know the BLK52 / JF17 better than the Paf Air Chief---.

He is operating both these aircraft to their full potential for almost a decade---.

But it should be taken into account that PAF is not only an operator but also a seller of JF-17. And vendors always paint a rosy picture of their product. Since the said person fell short of providing any data to his assertion, makes it more of a marketing ploy by CEO of a company(surprisingly, he actually is of PAC).

Hi,

He is not a CEO per say---but the Air Chief of the air force---he can claim---and yet he does not need to disclose---.

Just like the claims of the F22 and the F35 were made fun of in the earlier day---the USAF would want to say something but would not---it is no different.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Some people are just so unhinged...............the three domains where Thunder trumps the Falcon are Price, Restriction/Sanction-free, and Autonomy/Independence. On one to one comparison, It is still not there yet, Falcon has a clear advantage in technical parameters

 

[sparten]

They have refueling what they don't have is a refueling aircraft.

More accurately the don’t have the proper type of refueling apparatus (boom apparatus v the probe and drouge of our tankers).

 

[PakEye]

Hi,

The Air Chief does have the right to brag about some capabilities of the JF17---.

On a side by side comparison---who would know the BLK52 / JF17 better than the Paf Air Chief---.

He is operating both these aircraft to their full potential for almost a decade---.

after 98 nuclear tests when Pakistan was under US sanctions than How PAF maintained the F-16 Fleet without US cooperation ( spear parts and services ) ?

 

[sparten]

Turks, SKor and Egyptians mostly.

Plus buying them on the black market.