JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[Che Guevara]

Haha, i smell fire..

Okay very well then.. Let us begin

mki's radar uses N-011M Bars which has a range of 140 km for for 5m2 not 400..

now considering an air to air role.. the RCS increases..

So 30 will have a RCS of around 18m2
While thunder will have a Rcs of 3m2

So Su 30 will detect a jf-17 at around 125 Km's while Jf17 will detect mki at around 145 km considering its huge RCS.


Your flawed logic of Thunder standing no chance is not true.

N011M has a search range of 400 km and a tracking range of 200 km, with 60 km in the rear in the air to air mode.

 

[mylovepakistan]

N011M has a search range of 400 km and a tracking range of 200 km, with 60 km in the rear in the air to air mode.

what ur post actually shows?
we know it it has 350-400 km search range,

but the range against a fighter sized object i.e 5 meter sqaure is 140 km according to official specs,

so considering the MKI's huge RCS,its assumed that JF 17 will detect MKI earlier,

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

Haha, i smell fire..

Okay very well then.. Let us begin

mki's radar uses N-011M Bars which has a range of 140 km for for 5m2 not 400..

now considering an air to air role.. the RCS increases..

So 30 will have a RCS of around 18m2
While thunder will have a Rcs of 3m2

So Su 30 will detect a jf-17 at around 125 Km's while Jf17 will detect mki at around 145 km considering its huge RCS.


Your flawed logic of Thunder standing no chance is not true.

Bring me sources to prove your claim.

RCS of MKI is 5m^2

The 140 Km range is for an RCS of 2m^2 while you have yourself accepted that RCS of thunder is 3m^2.

Hence sukhoi can "Track" JF17 at around 200 km while "Detection" will be at around 400 km.

Hence, atleast learn somthing before making fun of yourself.

And to keep things in perspective follow this link. It says Su-30 MKI detects 1m^2 target from a range of 94-107 km.

http://forum.keypublishing.com/archive/index.php?t-43498.html

 

[Viper0011.]

Bring me sources to prove your claim.

The 140 Km range is for an RCS of 2m^2 while you have yourself accepted that RCS of thunder is 3m^2.
Hence sukhoi can "Track" JF17 at around 200 km while "Detection" will be at around 400 km.
Hence, atleast learn somthing before making fun of yourself.

Guys - is it me or this conversation is becoming boring yet again.... it doesn't make a difference as to who detects who when and how. Due to the proximity of the conflict, 90%+ air assets will be utilized within 100-125 KM of the border by each side. Anything more than that, you lose many different elements of war due to sheer long distance as both countrys have EW and significant number of other radars.

Secondly, Pakistan's depth is not that much. It's FOB's are located well within the 100 km of the border and the flight envelop will not exceed the 150 KM parameter (in case of attacking India). So both SU 30 and JFT will detect each other instantaneously or within seconds after getting airborne.
If SU-30's or anything else crosses PAF's first layer of defense, i.e. the JFT's, F 16's and the J 10's...than it'll be the point defense fighters like F 7's or SAM's to face the incoming jets. At which point, it'll be a dog fight so long ranges won't help anyway.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

Guys - is it me or this conversation is becoming boring yet again.... it doesn't make a difference as to who detects who when and how. Due to the proximity of the conflict, 90%+ air assets will be utilized within 100-125 KM of the border by each side. Anything more than that, you lose many different elements of war due to sheer long distance as both countrys have EW and significant number of other radars.

Secondly, Pakistan's depth is not that much. It's FOB's are located well within the 100 km of the border and the flight envelop will not exceed the 150 KM parameter (in case of attacking India). So both SU 30 and JFT will detect each other instantaneously or within seconds after getting airborne.
If SU-30's or anything else crosses PAF's first layer of defense, i.e. the JFT's, F 16's and the J 10's...than it'll be the point defense fighters like F 7's or SAM's to face the incoming jets. At which point, it'll be a dog fight so long ranges won't help anyway.

Sir, I fear cannot agree with you. Isn't it possible that Su-30 detects JF17 while it itself is deep inside Indian territory(assuming that Su-30 takes off from about 100 km inside Indian border.)

If it takes off from that point, do you still think JF17 will be able to detect Su30?

 

[Imran Khan]

again su-30 vs JF mods its time for coffee and delete posts

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

why are not comparison posts allowed here?

The whole sense of inducting new weapons is to defend yourself against your adversary right??

Then why are people so repulsive to perform this comparison? Anyways, ur compatriot was the one who started it.

 

[Imran Khan]

why are not comparison posts allowed here?

The whole sense of inducting new weapons is to defend yourself against your adversary right??

Then why are people so repulsive to perform this comparison? Anyways, ur compatriot was the one who started it.

because its bring bla bla bla trolling nothing more

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

because its bring bla bla bla trolling nothing more

Well that depends. I believe that members should be allowed to compare provide that they can back up their claims. Not like people who say RCS of MKI is 18m^2.

 

[[--Leo--]]

Just when in the world they are going to release the block 2 version?any 1 knows

 

[Crypto]

Guys you are forgetting AWACS capability which now Pakistan possess. So detection is not the issue here, PAF will be able to detect anything which comes into pak airspace and can relay those coordinates to JF-17 etc!!!! These AWACS can also guide missiles if required.
Please take the comparison to other threads which were created for this purpose.

 

[mylovepakistan]

Bring me sources to prove your claim.

RCS of MKI is 5m^2

The 140 Km range is for an RCS of 2m^2 while you have yourself accepted that RCS of thunder is 3m^2.

Hence sukhoi can "Track" JF17 at around 200 km while "Detection" will be at around 400 km.

Hence, atleast learn somthing before making fun of yourself.

And to keep things in perspective follow this link. It says Su-30 MKI detects 1m^2 target from a range of 94-107 km.

N011M detection range? [Archive] - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums

are you kidding?
so you need a source to believe that MKI has huge RCS?
its a well known fact that MKI has 20m2 rcs while its fully loaded,

http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/india-russia-close-to-pactnext-generation-fighter/381718/

well,as for ur claim of 140km against 2m2...
is nothing but foolishness,

check here vayu sina tripod clearing that A MIG 21 for instance can be detected at 135 km( MIG 21 has 3m2 RCS )

The Su-30MKI Info Page - Vayu Sena

what an assumption you have made SIR,
200 KM tracking range and detection range 400 km for JF 17 THUNDER ????? LOL!!!!

even according to you it has 94-107 km "detection" range for 1m2...how could it be 400km against 3m2??? LOL!

 

[hatf IX]

Bring me sources to prove your claim.

RCS of MKI is 5m^2

The 140 Km range is for an RCS of 2m^2 while you have yourself accepted that RCS of thunder is 3m^2.

Hence sukhoi can "Track" JF17 at around 200 km while "Detection" will be at around 400 km.

Hence, atleast learn somthing before making fun of yourself.

And to keep things in perspective follow this link. It says Su-30 MKI detects 1m^2 target from a range of 94-107 km.

N011M detection range? [Archive] - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums

From The Su-30MKI Info Page - Vayu Sena

For aircraft N011M has a 350 km search range and a maximum 200 km tracking range, and 60 km in the rear hemisphere. A MiG-21 for instance can be detected at a distance of up to 135 km. Design maximum search range for an F-16 target was 140-160km. A Bars' earlier variant, fitted with a five-kilowatt transmitter, proved to be capable of detecting Su-27 fighters at a range of over 330 km. The radar can track 20 air targets and engage the 4 most threatening targets simultaneously (this capability was introduced in the Indian RC1 and RC2). These targets can include cruise/ballistic missiles and even motionless helicopters. For comparison, Phazotron-NIIR’s Zhuk-MS radar has a range of 150-180km against a fighter and over 300km against a warship. "We can count the number of blades in the engine of the aircraft in sight (by the NO11M) and by that determine its type," NIIP says.

350 Km is search rage but its detection range is 200Km, and for F-16 its given above. and keep it in mind its search range not lock down range and lock range that matters . .

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

From The Su-30MKI Info Page - Vayu Sena



350 Km is search rage but its detection range is 200Km, and for F-16 its given above. and keep it in mind its search range not lock down range and lock range that matters . .

Exactly. Lock down range is still 160km which is also the range of R77M, which is consistent with my claim that Su-30 can shoot down JF17 from a distance of 160 Km.

What I was saying that since radar range of JF17 is 130-150 km which is less than 160km, JF17 will never be able to detect Su30 in a combat situation because it will be shot down before reaching there itself. Hence, it is pointless to think about whether JF17 will be able to detect Su30 which was exactly what Thorough Pro was doing.

Again it should be noted that all sources of radar range of Su-30 MKI don't have very solid info. But it should be assumed that it can detect target well beyond the range of its A2A missile Vympel R77M. I believe this discussion has come to an end. Thanx

are you kidding?
so you need a source to believe that MKI has huge RCS?
its a well known fact that MKI has 20m2 rcs while its fully loaded,

India, Russia close to PACT on next generation fighter

well,as for ur claim of 140km against 2m2...
is nothing but foolishness,

check here vayu sina tripod clearing that A MIG 21 for instance can be detected at 135 km( MIG 21 has 3m2 RCS )

The Su-30MKI Info Page - Vayu Sena

what an assumption you have made SIR,
200 KM tracking range and detection range 400 km for JF 17 THUNDER ????? LOL!!!!

even according to you it has 94-107 km "detection" range for 1m2...how could it be 400km against 3m2??? LOL!

I can show u more sources which claim that Su-30 RCS is 5m^2. After that u can play my source is better than yours as long as u want.

 

[regular]

Guys you are forgetting AWACS capability which now Pakistan possess. So detection is not the issue here, PAF will be able to detect anything which comes into pak airspace and can relay those coordinates to JF-17 etc!!!! These AWACS can also guide missiles if required.
Please take the comparison to other threads which were created for this purpose.

but I guess we can't put our AWACS 24/7 in air. sometimes the pilots gotta take independant decisions.dependance on AWACS won't be a reliable solution all the time......