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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

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4600 external payload not bad yaar

That poster is from the air show in Pakistan about two years ago. I found it interesting and we might even have discussed the numbers because AVIC was advertising 3,600kg or something like that. Now with the presentation from Dubai saying “>4,000”, the “4,600kg” on this poster DOES NOT DISAGREE.
The 12,700kg max still applies. The question I know have is, after loading 4,600kg of external load, can you still put the full internal fuel load via IRF after take-off?
It would also be interesting to know the maximum for each pylon.
 
I am not expecting them to reveal much, but it would be useful to know what changes they made to achieve the 4.6t from 3.6t.
I am not competent enough to say, but I doubt they made that much progress with the composite materials. I am inclined towards the Klimov poster showing a 96kN engine.
Also, shouldn’t the higher thrust engine give us more speed? … … If it should, does this indicate that the M1.6 is limited by other factors and not the engine?
 
I am not expecting them to reveal much, but it would be useful to know what changes they made to achieve the 4.6t from 3.6t.
I am not competent enough to say, but I doubt they made that much progress with the composite materials. I am inclined towards the Klimov poster showing a 96kN engine.
Also, shouldn’t the higher thrust engine give us more speed? … … If it should, does this indicate that the M1.6 is limited by other factors and not the engine?

The designed top speed has many more variables than just engine power.
 
The designed top speed has many more variables than just engine power.

Including but not limited to materials used in construction, Inlet and canopy design ..etc.

Vmax is what the actual term is...

Max speed occurs when max thrust equals drag, i.e. no net force so no more acceleration. Drag can be simplified as parasite drag (aerodynamic friction) and induced drag (drag due to lift).

Weight affects induced drag so lets amplify this one a bit. Generating lift isn't free. Vortices and downwash are byproducts of lift; both require energy transfer from the aircraft. That energy transfer (loss) manifests itself as drag. The more the airplane weighs, the more lift must be generated (in level un-accelerated flight, weight=lift). More lift, more drag. More drag, then the engines can't push it as fast.
 
Some users over here are facing some problems in knowledge.
Let me add one more point. Pakistani Pilots/Airmen are working in China for Chengdu. No, not joint co-operation or joint-venture, but they wear Chinese uniform and live in China. They are hired by China. Best thing to say is, they are Pakistani National but work for PLAAF.

As for test flights, Sir Kaiser Tufail has test flied the J-10A.
And they very first flights of Pt-01 were made by Chinese guys. But P.A.F pilots flew every Prototype, (except for Pt-06) as it is given major technological changes and the Chinese are evaluating for their use. After the end of this Research, our pilots maybe given the Pt-06 to see if we would like to upgrade the Avionics.

SD-10 is the major objective. If we try to seek new avionics, the first thing will be the avionics used on Pt-06 and the major reason would be BVRAAM. No chance for WS-13 on the Thunders Block 1 though.

Air Cdre. Kaiser Tufail never flew J-10A.
 
China says it does not want to use the JF-17 itself because its own J-10 (another local design) and J-11 (a license built Russian Su-27) are adequate for their needs.

One must research the roles of different aircrafts and the needs of different Air Forces before posting such links ...
What a joke ? The Chinese consider FC1 / JFT a failed design ... Is that why they are designing the Block 2 configuration ? :azn:
JFT a day light interceptor ... Did the author has any knowledge of the SD 10 or he was just hallucinating when he wrote the article ? Any clue about the KLJ 7 Radar and Advanced EW suite along with KJ 300 Jammer that JFT employs ? The radar of JFT is really close to APG 68 ( the one used in Block 52 F16 config ) ... Compare the price between the two and then tell me which one fares better :P and comparing it with F16I which is the most advanced F16 to date along with Block 60 :lol: Special gift by US of A to her satellite state ... Is that what everyone can buy ? Better compare it to JFT Blk 2 and then check the results ... In the meantime , the author can continue his mental masturbation ... :wave:
 
Cheap Competition For The F-16
November 25, 2011: Pakistan is aggressively seeking customers for its JF-17 jet fighter. During the last two years, Pakistan has manufactured about 30 JF-17. The first JF-17s were manufactured in China. But the plan was always to shift production to Pakistan, with the original goal of 25 a year being produced by 2011. This goal was not achieved, but production has been established in Pakistan, and it is growing.
Pakistan is offering the JF-17 for a low price ($25 million in the cheapest configuration) and touts the fact that this is a third the price of an F-16. But this is comparing apples and oranges. The low end JF-17 is little more than a day time interceptor. The most capable F-16 model in service is the F-16I, used exclusively by Israel. It's basically a modified version of the F-16C/D Block 50/52, equipped with more advanced radar (the APG-68(X)) and the ability to carry Israeli weapons like the Python 4 air-to-air missile and the Popeye 2 air-to-surface missile. Costing $70 million each, the F-16I has an excellent navigation system, which allows it to fly on the deck (a few hundred feet from the ground), without working the pilot to death. The aircraft can do this at night or in any weather. The F-16I can carry enough fuel to hit targets 1,600 kilometers away (meaning Iran is within range). The aircraft uses the latest short and long range air-to-air missiles, as well as smart bombs. Electronic countermeasures are carried, as is a powerful computer system, which records the details of each sortie in great detail. This is a big help for training. The F-16I is basically optimized to deliver smart bombs anywhere, at any time, in any weather and despite dense air defenses. This further increases Israel's military power versus its neighbors. In combat, one F-16I is worth more than three JF-17s. But what Pakistan is really touting here is the availability of a jet fighter that is cheap and performs somewhat like an F-16. For many countries, this is an attractive option. The only problem is that there are hundreds of second-hand (and very well maintained) F-16s on the market, selling for less than the bare-bones JF-17.

The Chinese designed JF-17 (also known as FC-1) is also manufactured in China, which is trying to export it to Algeria, Egypt, Nigeria, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Burma, Iran and Sri Lanka as an inexpensive alternative to American and Russian fighters. So far, no takers. The hundreds of JF-17s to be built in Pakistan are mainly composed of Chinese parts, and the Chinese Air Force has not shown any interest in obtaining the aircraft for its own use. Chinese air force commanders consider the JF-17 a failed designLast year, Pakistan signed a deal to buy the next 42, of 300, of these jets from China. These 42 will cost $14.3 million per aircraft.The final 250 will cost $12 million each. The aircraft is assembled in both Pakistan and China, with the engines coming from Russia, and most of the other components from China (which calls the aircraft the FC-1).

When the first JF-17 fighter arrived in Pakistan four years ago, it ended over twenty years of development for what was first called the Super 7 fighter. The JF-17 was developed by China in cooperation with Pakistan, which originally only wanted to buy 150 of them. All this came about because Pakistan could not get modern fighters from anyone else, and turned to China. At the time, China had nothing comparable to the early model F-16s Pakistan already had.

The 13 ton JF-17 is meant to be a low cost alternative to the American F-16. The JF-17 is considered the equal to earlier versions of the F-16, but much less effective than more recent F16 models. The JF-17 design is also based on a cancelled Russian project, the MiG-33. Originally, Pakistan wanted Western electronics in the JF-17, but because of the risk of Chinese technology theft, and pressure from the United States (who did not want China to steal more Western aviation electronics), the JF-17 uses Chinese and Pakistani electronics.

The JF-17 can carry 3.6 tons of weapons and uses radar guided and heat seeking missiles. It has max speed of nearly 2,000 kilometers an hour, an operating range of 1,300 kilometers and a max altitude of nearly 18,000 meters (55,000 feet). China says it does not want to use the JF-17 itself because its own J-10 (another local design) and J-11 (a license built Russian Su-27) are adequate for their needs. The J-10, like the JF-17, did not work out as well as was hoped, but that's another matter. Meanwhile, Pakistan has one squadron in service, and another being formed.


Warplanes: Cheap Competition For The F-16
Strategypage :lol:
Their most of the articles are created by rephrasing their previous ones......
 
PAKISTAN is buying these jf-17 because it has no money to buy f-16/typhoon/f-35/rafale.had pakistan been cash rich like gulf states they too would have rejected jf-17 in favour of advanced jets..
No , Pakistan is buying/upgrading/modifying/producing the JFT because its one aircraft that comes with no strings attached , not because its inferior or something ... Those who still think that Chinese make cheap junk products need to wake up and face the reality ... The Chinese Aeronautics industry has made tremendous strides and J 20 is a living proof of that ... Those times are long gone when Pakistan had to rely on West to supply weapons ...
 
Pakistan is offering the JF-17 for a low price ($25 million in the cheapest configuration) and touts the fact that this is a third the price of an F-16. But this is comparing apples and oranges. The low end JF-17 is little more than a day time interceptor. The most capable F-16 model in service is the F-16I, used exclusively by Israel. It's basically a modified version of the F-16C/D Block 50/52, equipped with more advanced radar (the APG-68(X)) and the ability to carry Israeli weapons like the Python 4 air-to-air missile and the Popeye 2 air-to-surface missile. Costing $70 million each, the F-16I has an excellent navigation system, which allows it to fly on the deck (a few hundred feet from the ground), without working the pilot to death. The aircraft can do this at night or in any weather. The F-16I can carry enough fuel to hit targets 1,600 kilometers away (meaning Iran is within range). The aircraft uses the latest short and long range air-to-air missiles, as well as smart bombs. Electronic countermeasures are carried, as is a powerful computer system, which records the details of each sortie in great detail. This is a big help for training. The F-16I is basically optimized to deliver smart bombs anywhere, at any time, in any weather and despite dense air defenses. This further increases Israel's military power versus its neighbors. In combat, one F-16I is worth more than three JF-17s. But what Pakistan is really touting here is the availability of a jet fighter that is cheap and performs somewhat like an F-16. For many countries, this is an attractive option. The only problem is that there are hundreds of second-hand (and very well maintained) F-16s on the market, selling for less than the bare-bones JF-17.
Not a single mention of what the JFT uses in place of the avionics used in F16 ... Fair Analysis my *** ... This doesn't even qualify to be called a analysis because you are hell bent on praising one fighter so much that you dont even think important to mention the capability of other aircraft ... Portraying it like JFT is some WW 2 era plane which can only fly and deliver bombs that too in daytime and flies without any navigational aid :rofl: How many country really have access to the F16 which Israel uses and most importantly how many can afford it ? :azn: ... Looks like the West already fears loosing its medium end market :lol: Somebody tell him that the most capable JFT is not the Block 1 but the Block 2 ... and those hundreds of used F16 require the approval of US congress which is not-easy-to-get and those expensive aircrafts come with strings attacked with no guarantee of spares in case of war with a country which is US friendly and risk of sanctions ... :azn:
 
China makes high quality stuff,j-20,j-11,j-10b,,no doubt.....but chinese do not shy away from rejecting low quality products,,fc-1 is one such junk.....but it has been gifted to you guys as a joint development package....aur free ka maal to koi bhi leta hai..........engine is russian,,ew,weapons,radar,,datalink,,everything is chinese,,still you guys call it indigenous,,,,chinese generosity or a way found by the next superpower to dispose off the junk and still make it a success in third world countries
Possibly , they told you personally right ? Find me a link or source where Chinese say the exact thing ? that FC1 / JFT is junk and unsuitable for modern warfare :rofl: Here's what your closest ally has to say about JFT ...

Made-in-China airplanes may undermine sales of Russian high quality jets — RT

The deal is facing opposition from Russian aircraft manufacturers, such as Mikhail Pogosyan, the head of the MiG and Sukhoi aviation holding, who said that the FC-1 / JF 17 is extremely close, if not the same, as the Russian-made MiG-29. Pogosyan claimed that FC-1 / JF 17 is a direct competitor to Russia's MiG-29 and the deal would incur losses for the Russian manufacturers.
 
PAKISTAN is buying these jf-17 because it has no money to buy f-16/typhoon/f-35/rafale.had pakistan been cash rich like gulf states they too would have rejected jf-17 in favour of advanced jets..
Not necessarily rejected it. PAF had a great benchmark for block I i.e. F-16 and JFT not only matched the aerodynamic performance of F-16 but also expanded over its capabilities. It can carry BVRs,WVRs,ECM,EW,ARMs,PGMs,AShms and also supposedly ALCMs (for PAF). If somebody wants to purchase these capabilities from Europe or West, they will not come anywhere below 70Million. Even Typhoon is still not as versatile as JFT uless its Trench III comes on line. JFT provides Value for money at this time as the newer blocks come in with even better avionics and more new weapons come in, it offers something that no other aircraft offers, economy of purchase, operation,ease of maintenance, an all aspect punch and also economies of upgrade (Indians have a fair experience with France and Russia)
 

I still dont get how the N011M- Bars PESA with a peak output of 4-5 KW and can place waves in 400 microseconds scanning at +/- 70 degrees in Azimuth and +/-45 in elevation with a search radius of almost 150 Kms be inferior to a Mechanically steered slotted array KLJ7?

Kinda hard to get it. Can someone tell me more about it?
 
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