JF-17 French Avionics Deal On Hold/Cancelled

[Dil Pakistan]

Dil Pakistan,

Falcons are the current Block 15 F-16 A, B and not the Falcon D-20 EW aircraft. I was talking about the on board jammer of Thunder, not the F-16s.

Thank you, it is OK now. It is good to know JF-17s capabilities.

 

[Dil Pakistan]

Mani,

As far as I know, there are no plans for J-11 for PAF as all future options evident for now. The next generation of Chinese fighter known as JXX is under consideration but there is another twist in the tail as Chengdu proposed Thunder next generation and many CGs appeared on net. This news was also confirmed by Sir Parvez Shamim a while ago on Pakdef Forum.

Regards

Sir PShamim (or MarkSein, if I am forgetting) in another discussion forum in PAF have disclosed the news that we should watch out for the year 2013 for PAF. In 2013, PAF and Chengdu are going to unveil a completely new aircraft (according to PShamim IAF will have no aircraft in comparison to it).

 

[karan.1970]

Why did you forgot to minus the initial cost of avionics from the JF-17 package? Also pray tell us all how exactly will it be inferior to the block-52 once it reaches the same level of avionics as that of block-52? Do i need to remind you that current JF-17 surpasses the F-16s in capabilities currently the PAF possess. What makes you think the newer blocks wont even match up to the block-52?

Simply this

Pakistan is supposed to buy/build close to 250 of JF 17. If these were better than older block F 16s and with new avionics, even better than 52s, then the promise of 18 F16 (older block) by US wouldnt have generated the sense of celebration that it did..

 

[Mani2020]

Simply this

Pakistan is supposed to buy/build close to 250 of JF 17. If these were better than older block F 16s and with new avionics, even better than 52s, then the promise of 18 F16 (older block) by US wouldnt have generated the sense of celebration that it did..

I thnk anythng that comes our way and is meant for saving our skies should be appreciated no matter wat it holds

 

[genmirajborgza786]

This "western" superiority has ruined our country.
O levels is better than Matriculation. Well, it is but we never focused to improve our syllabus.
Furthermore, it doomed "our" educational system and it created class difference.
People who did O and A levels were considered superior to others.
Western obsession is hurting our defence area also.
I mean we should argue that in which areas we are not getting doomed.

one of the most "authentic analysis" post i have read

 

[SekrutYakhni]

one of the most "authentic analysis" post i have read

Sarcasm?


or in real?

 

[IceCold]

Simply this

Pakistan is supposed to buy/build close to 250 of JF 17. If these were better than older block F 16s and with new avionics, even better than 52s, then the promise of 18 F16 (older block) by US wouldnt have generated the sense of celebration that it did..

Lol seriously is this your level of thought. Come on man i expected better, how about some technicality. As for celebration ofcourse why wouldnt one rejoice.It is not something to be sad about. Its like saying Indians wont celebrate MRCA contract once its finalize because they have MKIs.
Do you know that the pilots who flew the F-16s and let me tell you F-16s were considered a prize trophy because only the top made it to fly went on to fly the JF-17 did not want to let it go and come back to fly the F-16s again. Do you know why and by the way you can also verify this event from other senior members here who have the 1st hand information of whats going on at PAF, speaks volume about the capability of JF-17. Besides one would be naive to believe PAF will put its faith in anything less then the F-16 against a much bigger and superior adversary.

 

[karan.1970]

Lol seriously is this your level of thought. Come on man i expected better, how about some technicality. As for celebration ofcourse why wouldnt one rejoice.It is not something to be sad about. Its like saying Indians wont celebrate MRCA contract once its finalize because they have MKIs.
Do you know that the pilots who flew the F-16s and let me tell you F-16s were considered a prize trophy because only the top made it to fly went on to fly the JF-17 did not want to let it go and come back to fly the F-16s again. Do you know why and by the way you can also verify this event from other senior members here who have the 1st hand information of whats going on at PAF, speaks volume about the capability of JF-17. Besides one would be naive to believe PAF will put its faith in anything less then the F-16 against a much bigger and superior adversary.

@ICE. Its not the question of being sad.. But the degree of celebration. The right parallel would be how much India would celebrate getting additional 18 Mig 29s after the order for MMRCA is done..

But thats fine.. Not trying to run down JF 17. The discussion began from JF 17 costing same as JF 10 (or even F 16) after the upgrades and if a JF 17 with upgrades is actually as good as a JF 10

 

[shanixee]

Sir PShamim (or MarkSein, if I am forgetting) in another discussion forum in PAF have disclosed the news that we should watch out for the year 2013 for PAF. In 2013, PAF and Chengdu are going to unveil a completely new aircraft (according to PShamim IAF will have no aircraft in comparison to it).

can u please give more detail...or atleast provide the link..
Thanks

 

[sancho]

I thought so as well in the begining. However this would have held true if it was a joint production for these 100(or 50) thunders. However its an upgrade. Dont think these thunders will be produced without avionics and the avionics be plugged in by French. I thought it was the 1st set of 50 Thunders that are getting produced to be modified by replacing Chinese avionics with the French ones. Not sure though and hence the question...

But even at $25 its as expensive as a J 10. Somethings not adding up...

With $25 million each, JF 17 might be more than PAF had expected at the beginning of the development, but is still a cheap price for a 4. gen fighter. J10A costs around $40 million each, comparable to F16 B52, or Gripen C/D I think, so it still will be interesting for exports and most of the possible export countries will get Chinese pack anyway, which is even cheaper.

Also pray tell us all how exactly will it be inferior to the block-52 once it reaches the same level of avionics as that of block-52? Do i need to remind you that current JF-17 surpasses the F-16s in capabilities currently the PAF possess. What makes you think the newer blocks wont even match up to the block-52?

Because you are comparing avionics of a 4. gen JF 17 block 1 with a 3. gen F16 block 15. How will the comparison look like if they are on the same level? JF 17 block 1 vs. F16 MLU, or with the new B52s? Even with French package JF 17 will hardly match F16 B52 in terms of avionics what will it have to equal JHMCS for example? If you add things like higher thrust, better BVR missiles, more weapon load and stations, CFTs and so on, it should be clear that only a JF 17 block 3 with AESA radar, new engines, or J10B...could surpass the F16 B52s.
The earlier JF 17 blocks will server their roles as 4. gen interceptors and strike fighters to replace F7 and A5 exactly in these roles!

 

[Dil Pakistan]

can u please give more detail...or at least provide the link..
Thanks

It was in the PAF discussions forum last year that this news was revealed. Therefore, I am sorry, cannot provide the link. If you type PAF discussions in Google and go through the last years discussions you will find it or one of the people can update you.

I don't have more details either. I have quoted here what was mentioned in that forum. I think they don't want to give away too many details at the moment. However, it was a very BIG news on that forum and a lot of people (100% of them from PAF and quite senior ones as well) were naturally elated with this news. Since it came directly from Sir PShamim (or MarkSein) no one questioned it (mustanad hey un ka frmaya hua !!!).

 

[IceCold]

Because you are comparing avionics of a 4. gen JF 17 block 1 with a 3. gen F16 block 15. How will the comparison look like if they are on the same level? JF 17 block 1 vs. F16 MLU, or with the new B52s? Even with French package JF 17 will hardly match F16 B52 in terms of avionics what will it have to equal JHMCS for example? If you add things like higher thrust, better BVR missiles, more weapon load and stations, CFTs and so on, it should be clear that only a JF 17 block 3 with AESA radar, new engines, or J10B...could surpass the F16 B52s.
The earlier JF 17 blocks will server their roles as 4. gen interceptors and strike fighters to replace F7 and A5 exactly in these roles!

Dude correction here F-16 is never considered a 3rd generation fighter jet even when it was first inducted.

Fourth generation jet fighter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also you failed you answer my question in my initial post how exactly will JF-17 be inferior to block-52 once it reaches the same level of avionics? Payload yes perhaps one can argue but not range because with mid air refueling, range wont be a problem, CFTs well even our F-16s dont have them (atleast not confirmed) and MLUs has no CFTs either. Work on engine is already in progress and a possible change from RD-93 to WS-13 or perhaps a newer version of RD-93 with better thrust or a european engine with more composite materials will solve the thrust to weight ratio. Work on JHMC is also in progress.
Again how exactly will it remain inferior to the new block -52 once all of these things are achieved?

 

[sergente rehan]

Simply this

Pakistan is supposed to buy/build close to 250 of JF 17. If these were better than older block F 16s and with new avionics, even better than 52s, then the promise of 18 F16 (older block) by US wouldnt have generated the sense of celebration that it did..

Only Jf-17 Block 3 would be better then F-16 blk 52's.

F-16 blk 52 will fill the gap which is going to create from 2010 to 2015 when we will finally induct J-10's and have JF-17 block 3 possibly.

Regarding 18 more blk 52's it's better to have all the options open....it's not bad to have a good fleet of F16's blk 52 along with J-10's and JF-17's!

Who knows whether J-XX will made it untill 2015 or not, that will be a hole new story in the history of PAF!

 

[Moscow]

can you please justify if the weapons in the pic are real ?
dont get me wrong members with aviation knowledge will understand all platforms use dummy weapons when firing and initial incorporation purposes
these dummy weapons look very similar and can be fired too i recall having seen the picture of jf-17 will dummy and this looks very similar

dont get me wrong but its for all airforces its same

 

[Peregrine]

can you please justify if the weapons in the pic are real ?
dont get me wrong members with aviation knowledge will understand all platforms use dummy weapons when firing and initial incorporation purposes
these dummy weapons look very similar and can be fired too i recall having seen the picture of jf-17 will dummy and this looks very similar

dont get me wrong but its for all airforces its same

HI
you are concerned about weapons even this JF-17 in the pic seems one of the old prototypes as there are no DSI & ECM features