JF-17 French Avionics Deal On Hold/Cancelled

[SMC]

To the Indian members: Where is the proof that French have put the deal on hold under Indian pressure ? Can anyone give a substantative proof ?

India may be partially involved, and even that is a may.

 

[Moscow]

no intention to troll or make offtopic comments but many members have said that pakistan is buying chinese J-11 can the said members give me an official link, from the pakistan ministry of defence or the chinese side about the deal and the numbers

if yes can please post or send me the link via pm or on the wall
then ...
i will put my argument why CHINESE J-11 cannot be exported to any 3 rd country including pakistan ...

 

[Moscow]

JF-17 French Avionics Deal held up only means that Pakistan rejected the Merlin submarines and is now going for the U-214 subs. This also means that JF-17 is now likely to be equipped with a better radar and perhaps more cost.

webby if the price of the JF-17 goes up substantially the main aim of the fighter as a low cost solution is defeated dont you think
also more advanced avionics require advance maintenance there by increasing indirect costs so whats the aim of the jf -17 then ...
and then when you compare the cost per efficiency ratio it will fail to match other fighters in its genere

 

[AVIAN]

This is nothing but a usual French Tactic of not selling advanced avionics for JF-17 in case Pakistan refuse to purchase someother things like Marlin Submarines. This is kind of a tactics has also been played with India ages ago when India asked French to equip Foxtrot class submarine with Exocet Anti Ship Cruise missile to which French grossly declined to unless India agreed to the condition of purchasing multi billion doller Scorpien submarine. I don't think Indian diplomatic pressure has anything to do with it as has been reported by Pakistani media. In any case, even if it is true about Indian pressure then only I don't think French will going to held up any arm sale to Pakistan as French themelves want Pak to play an active role against Insurgancy removel from Afganistan.

 

[ambidex]

webby if the price of the JF-17 goes up substantially the main aim of the fighter as a low cost solution is defeated dont you think
also more advanced avionics require advance maintenance there by increasing indirect costs so whats the aim of the jf -17 then ...
and then when you compare the cost per efficiency ratio it will fail to match other fighters in its genere

I can see what cleverly you want to bring out. I will appreciate if rather asking question you could elaborate. Your assertion will create more suspicion to this whole effort of procuring third party avionics. This is the main reason why french would have allergy on Pakistan assembling bird at home. Its not about money.
Few netizens are suggesting the whole upgrade is to reduce the price by retracting R&D. Few are suggesting to go ahead with more expensive Avionics this time.
Only confusion to my mind is why a joint venture needs involvement of a third party indirectly. Is it a normal case or an exception?


Troll alert: As far as involvement of India is concerned i am happy to see this time no one is abusing(conspiracy theorist) india from Pakistani side cause Indians are them self not ruling out the possibility .

 

[Moscow]

the whole success of the JF-17 program as the low cost efficiency PAF and everybody here knows that birds like J10B are advanced in every engineering respect and also in efficiency with prospects of future upgrades but for jf-17 was the point defence fighter which could be procured in large numbers and take the skies with little headache upgrading it wit advanced systems fails the original aim of the program

air forces round the world function on various platform s for various missions right now if JF-17s original aim is altered shows the confusion and unclear state of the program <which is not the case> so forum members have to understand costly systems is not always the aim to getting better efficiency

 

[karan.1970]

the whole success of the JF-17 program as the low cost efficiency PAF and everybody here knows that birds like J10B are advanced in every engineering respect and also in efficiency with prospects of future upgrades but for jf-17 was the point defence fighter which could be procured in large numbers and take the skies with little headache upgrading it wit advanced systems fails the original aim of the program

air forces round the world function on various platform s for various missions right now if JF-17s original aim is altered shows the confusion and unclear state of the program <which is not the case> so forum members have to understand costly systems is not always the aim to getting better efficiency

So true..

Now the original cost of a JF 17 is approx $ 15 million.

This upgrade cost of 1.8 billion for 100 planes (50+50) adds another 18 million on top of that (sounds wierd) taking the cost close to $30 million about $ 8 million less than that of a block 52 F 16. What am I missing here?? Why would Pakistan want a plane for almost the same price of a block 52 which is nowhere near the capabilities of that. As a matter of fact a J 10 would be hard pressed to match the capabilities of a block 52..

 

[SMC]

Well the capabilities with the french hardware added are much closer than you may think, but you're right, something doesn't add up here about cost.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

So true..

Now the original cost of a JF 17 is approx $ 15 million.

This upgrade cost of 1.8 billion for 100 planes (50+50) adds another 18 million on top of that (sounds wierd) taking the cost close to $30 million about $ 8 million less than that of a block 52 F 16. What am I missing here?? Why would Pakistan want a plane for almost the same price of a block 52 which is nowhere near the capabilities of that. As a matter of fact a J 10 would be hard pressed to match the capabilities of a block 52..

its 15 million with Avionics & everything, remove the price of existing avionics in JF-17 it will come to less than 10 Million & add then add 15-17 million of French Avionics, it will never cross 25 Million per plane, am i missing something now

 

[pak-yes]

^^^Yup you are absolutely right.And People don't forget this 1.6 Billion Dollar Deal also Included MICA.

 

[karan.1970]

its 15 million with Avionics & everything, remove the price of existing avionics in JF-17 it will come to less than 10 Million & add then add 15-17 million of French Avionics it won't cross 25 Million, am i missing something now

I thought so as well in the begining. However this would have held true if it was a joint production for these 100(or 50) thunders. However its an upgrade. Dont think these thunders will be produced without avionics and the avionics be plugged in by French. I thought it was the 1st set of 50 Thunders that are getting produced to be modified by replacing Chinese avionics with the French ones. Not sure though and hence the question...

But even at $25 its as expensive as a J 10. Somethings not adding up...

 

[pak-yes]

I thought so as well in the begining. However this would have held true if it was a joint production for these 100(or 50) thunders. However its an upgrade. Dont think these thunders will be produced without avionics and the avionics be plugged in by French. I thought it was the 1st set of 50 Thunders that are getting produced to be modified by replacing Chinese avionics with the French ones. Not sure though and hence the question...

But even at $25 its as expensive as a J 10. Somethings not adding up...

Yar it's simple we can ask china to Produce these thunders without Avionics and we Plug French Avionics ourselves at Kamra.

And Don't Forget the 1.6 Billion Dollar deal also Includes MICA in addition to avionics.But the truth is MICA is the most Expensive Missile in the world.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

I thought so as well in the begining. However this would have held true if it was a joint production for these 100(or 50) thunders. However its an upgrade. Dont think these thunders will be produced without avionics and the avionics be plugged in by French. I thought it was the 1st set of 50 Thunders that are getting produced to be modified by replacing Chinese avionics with the French ones. Not sure though and hence the question...

But even at $25 its as expensive as a J 10. Somethings not adding up...

first 50 will remain all Chinese, its the coming 50(or 100) which will get French Avionics
even if French take money for fitting these avionics with MICA & all that state of the art stuff it will never cross 25 Million in any case, 50-100 JF-17 with RC-400 & MICA AAM (at 25 million per piece) linked to SAAB Erieye isn't bad at all

 

[Marxist]

will this cancellation/hold affect the export of Jf-17?,since Egypt and some other countries evaluating JF-17.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

will this cancellation/hold affect the export of Jf-17?,since Egypt and some other countries evaluating JF-17.

Egypt is considering it with all Chinese systems