JF-17 French Avionics Deal On Hold/Cancelled

[Peregrine]

Hi
and Azerbaijan was directly negotiating with China

 

[Mani2020]

I thought so as well in the begining. However this would have held true if it was a joint production for these 100(or 50) thunders. However its an upgrade. Dont think these thunders will be produced without avionics and the avionics be plugged in by French. I thought it was the 1st set of 50 Thunders that are getting produced to be modified by replacing Chinese avionics with the French ones. Not sure though and hence the question...

But even at $25 its as expensive as a J 10. Somethings not adding up...:confused:

You are producing 25-30 million LCA which is still not operational n u are not even blaming anyone for that cost but when it comes to jf-17 when u dun find any othr thng to argue u always come up with the same argument "high price tag"

Are you paying price from your pocket? No,its going from PAF pocket then y are u all r coming up with same arguments?

dun find anyothr thng to troll? may i help u in providng somethng to you so u can troll ?

n by the way its 2010 not 1985 when u can purchase a birds in 15-20 million each now even trainers cost ~10 million n u are arguing about 25 million for jf-17

Can u buy us a 4th generation fighter with 25 million ? if yes then we will more than happy to buy it and if not thn i thnk better to close your mouth

and about your question of 40 million for f-16 c/d block52 and 25million for jf-17

A 4th generation plane without any fear of embargo is much better than a 40million plane of 20% more capable but full of embargos

 

[karan.1970]

You are producing 25-30 million LCA which is still not operational n u are not even blaming anyone for that cost but when it comes to jf-17 when u dun find any othr thng to argue u always come up with the same argument "high price tag"

Are you paying price from your pocket? No,its going from PAF pocket then y are u all r coming up with same arguments?

dun find anyothr thng to troll? may i help u in providng somethng to you so u can troll ?

n by the its 2010 not 1985 when u can purchase a birds in 15-20 million each now even trainers cost ~10 million n u are arguing about 25 million for jf-17

Can u buy us a 4th generation fighter with 25 million ? if yes then we will more than happy to buy it and if not thn i thnk better to close your mouth

and about your question of 40 million for f-16 c/d block52 and 25million for jf-17

A 4th generation plane without any fear of embargo is much better than a 40million plane of 20% capable but full of embargos

Its Always better to read before writing. My post that you responded to was questioning if JF 17 with French avionics is a good idea against a JF 10 which will approx cost the same..

No need to get aggressive.. I am not French .. you know

 

[Dazzler]

There was no Indian or Yank pressure involved in this development as French do not care about anything when it comes to business deals of such caliber. Just two things that were bothering them from the start. The technology components that were asked were too advanced and were operational on Rafale fighter so that would have made the Thunder, a cheap alternative to Rafale which has already seen a sale drought even after a decade of its arrival in service. Second concern was the cash as currently, our economy is in not such a good shape and we were already facing difficulty to fund our own Thunder induction. French are still willing to supply but they want hard cash and not installments and payment plans that we asked for. Things are not over as of now and deal is NOT canceled, rather postponed.

On the other hand, Thunder is proving to be a very capable fighter and performance parameters analyzed after each sortie, are continuously exceeding expectations. This is a fact and not a moral booster as some might think. Avionics, radar and EW are already too advanced even when compared with our ROSE mirages which were the most advanced fighters before Thunder's induction. Falcons stand little chance in terms of avionics, radar and EW when compared to Thunder. Its on board jammer is robust and coupled with dual colored MAWS, it blinds anything we have in our fighter fleet. I can say that IF French deal does not go through, the only losers will be them and not us. Avionics are on the test bench for the second batch as I mentioned few days ago and China wants to secure the whole deal again like they did before. Even Italians have increased their efforts to secure the next batch deal as they see a better chance to grab a portion for them selves.

Those who think Italians will not sell either, the GRIFO 16/ 2000 radar was offered to both PAF and PLAAF as a contender for F-16 and J-10 radar back in 2005-06.

 

[nightrider_saulat]

italian card is still left on our hand but even after the disapproval from italian firms
then there is no option left but to go with future advanced chinese avionics

 

[Dil Pakistan]

There was no Indian or Yank pressure involved in this development as French do not care about anything when it comes to business deals of such caliber. Just two things that were bothering them from the start. The technology components that were asked were too advanced and were operational on Rafale fighter so that would have made the Thunder, a cheap alternative to Rafale which has already seen a sale drought even after a decade of its arrival in service. Second concern was the cash as currently, our economy is in not such a good shape and we were already facing difficulty to fund our own Thunder induction. French are still willing to supply but they want hard cash and not installments and payment plans that we asked for. Things are not over as of now and deal is NOT canceled, rather postponed.

On the other hand, Thunder is proving to be a very capable fighter and performance parameters analyzed after each sortie, are continuously exceeding expectations. This is a fact and not a moral booster as some might think. Avionics, radar and EW are already too advanced even when compared with our ROSE mirages which were the most advanced fighters before Thunder's induction. Falcons stand little chance in terms of avionics, radar and EW when compared to Thunder. Its on board jammer is robust and coupled with dual colored MAWS, it blinds anything we have in our fighter fleet. I can say that IF French deal does not go through, the only losers will be them and not us. Avionics are on the test bench for the second batch as I mentioned few days ago and China wants to secure the whole deal again like they did before. Even Italians have increased their efforts to secure the next batch deal as they see a better chance to grab a portion for them selves.

Those who think Italians will not sell either, the GRIFO 16/ 2000 radar was offered to both PAF and PLAAF as a contender for F-16 and J-10 radar back in 2005-06.

Above makes a lot of sense and I have seen similar reporting and conclusions in other places as well. The economic climate in Europe at present is not good and almost all the countries are looking for HARD and URGENT cash to overcome their internal problems. In such a scenario if French want to maneuver their dealing then it is no surprise.

 

[Dil Pakistan]

There was no Indian or Yank pressure involved in this development as French do not care about anything when it comes to business deals of such caliber. Just two things that were bothering them from the start. The technology components that were asked were too advanced and were operational on Rafale fighter so that would have made the Thunder, a cheap alternative to Rafale which has already seen a sale drought even after a decade of its arrival in service. Second concern was the cash as currently, our economy is in not such a good shape and we were already facing difficulty to fund our own Thunder induction. French are still willing to supply but they want hard cash and not installments and payment plans that we asked for. Things are not over as of now and deal is NOT canceled, rather postponed.

On the other hand, Thunder is proving to be a very capable fighter and performance parameters analyzed after each sortie, are continuously exceeding expectations. This is a fact and not a moral booster as some might think. Avionics, radar and EW are already too advanced even when compared with our ROSE mirages which were the most advanced fighters before Thunder's induction. Falcons stand little chance in terms of avionics, radar and EW when compared to Thunder. Its on board jammer is robust and coupled with dual colored MAWS, it blinds anything we have in our fighter fleet. I can say that IF French deal does not go through, the only losers will be them and not us. Avionics are on the test bench for the second batch as I mentioned few days ago and China wants to secure the whole deal again like they did before. Even Italians have increased their efforts to secure the next batch deal as they see a better chance to grab a portion for them selves.

Those who think Italians will not sell either, the GRIFO 16/ 2000 radar was offered to both PAF and PLAAF as a contender for F-16 and J-10 radar back in 2005-06.

Brother, can you please elaborate on the above statement. It seems contradictory to me (sorry for being thick).

 

[Dazzler]

Dil Pakistan,

Falcons are the current Block 15 F-16 A, B and not the Falcon D-20 EW aircraft. I was talking about the on board jammer of Thunder, not the F-16s.

 

[Moscow]

italian card is still left on our hand but even after the disapproval from italian firms
then there is no option left but to go with future advanced chinese variants

or is it because if indian pressure was the reason behind this one then hold on indians are looking at big ticket purchases from italy primary being new phase 2 trainers in big numbers
but i think its not the outcome of indian pressure its simple business

 

[Mani2020]

Its Always better to read before writing. My post that you responded to was questioning if JF 17 with French avionics is a good idea against a JF 10 which will approx cost the same..

No need to get aggressive.. I am not French .. you know

i red your post carefully n i know wat um replying for may b u forgot wat u were asking for this one below is your previous post n u should reread it to know wat u were asking for

karan.1970 Now the original cost of a JF 17 is approx $ 15 million. upgrade cost of 1.8 billion for 100 planes (50+50) adds another 18 million on top of that (sounds wierd) taking the cost close to $30 million about $ 8 million less than that of a block 52 F 16. What am I missing here?? Why would Pakistan want a plane for almost the same price of a block 52 which is nowhere near the capabilities of that. As a matter of fact a J 10 would be hard pressed to match the capabilities of a block 52..

 

[AliFarooq]

If it was really indian pressure, then the Indians would ask the french not to offer the subs to pak.

 

[Mani2020]

nabil_05


u havent answered my question bro which i askd in another thread regarding the j-11 ,as u said PAF pilots are flying Chinese j-11's for a long time
so i asked whether there is any chance of inducting j-11 in PAF fleet?

Sorry mod for going bit off topic

 

[Dazzler]

Mani,

As far as I know, there are no plans for J-11 for PAF as all future options evident for now. The next generation of Chinese fighter known as JXX is under consideration but there is another twist in the tail as Chengdu proposed Thunder next generation and many CGs appeared on net. This news was also confirmed by Sir Parvez Shamim a while ago on Pakdef Forum.

Regards

 

[karan.1970]

i red your post carefully n i know wat um replying for may b u forgot wat u were asking for this one below is your previous post n u should reread it to know wat u were asking for

That's fine.. Before your tantrum EMO had already identified what I was missing...

 

[IceCold]

So true..

Now the original cost of a JF 17 is approx $ 15 million.

This upgrade cost of 1.8 billion for 100 planes (50+50) adds another 18 million on top of that (sounds wierd) taking the cost close to $30 million about $ 8 million less than that of a block 52 F 16. What am I missing here?? Why would Pakistan want a plane for almost the same price of a block 52 which is nowhere near the capabilities of that. As a matter of fact a J 10 would be hard pressed to match the capabilities of a block 52..

Why did you forgot to minus the initial cost of avionics from the JF-17 package? Also pray tell us all how exactly will it be inferior to the block-52 once it reaches the same level of avionics as that of block-52? Do i need to remind you that current JF-17 surpasses the F-16s in capabilities currently the PAF possess. What makes you think the newer blocks wont even match up to the block-52?